Paypal, Completely Sucks!!! Options

[Nothing]

Ok, I know our clan along with many others use Paypal to accept donations and its a pretty easy way for that. But my situation is just down right horrible.

I have started a company allong with one of my long time customers that was importing through my company. We were selling high end furniture on ebay. We were selling desks for between 5,000 to 7,000 U.S. Dollars and some all kinds of other pieces. I dont know if any of you can still view my items that we sold because I have been suspended by ebay/paypal, but my ebay account name was spina_store. We even had a watch that was up for sale for over $90,000.00. We were selling all high end luxury items. We were doing great! We sold like $70,000.00 in the first month.

All of a sudden, with not a single warning, my ebay account was suspended, and my paypal account was frozen. They went and reversed money that was already transferred from my paypal account into my bank account. I mean, the money was in my checking account for days, and then they pulled it back out!! When I called paypal, they could not even see in their system that they reversed the money. Im talking $30,000.00 that was missing, and they didnt know what happened. They could not tell me any good reason that my account was frozen and where the money went. This went on for days. I had to send them copies of my bank statements showing that the money was reversed. Finally, like 2 weeks later, they seen that the funds were reversed due to my frozen account. They have NO REASON to do this to me!!! The woman told me that basically, because I went from a paypal account / ebay account that went from 0 to $60,000 in a month, it drew a flag. The completely shut me down. I had many, many orders from people and they seen that my account was suspended and they had not yet received their items. They are all scared that I ripped them off and dissappeared!! I cant respond to any of their requests in ebay, cause I dont have access to them!!! (account suspended!) and paypal is telling them that they should just file for a refund!!! What the hell is this!!!!! How can they do this, and why would they????

Paypal has told me that in order for my funds to be released back to me, they must have proof from each customer that they recieved the goods and then they will release the funds to me. I told them how can I obtain proof of this and what guarantee do I have that they will release my money to me afterwards. They told me to give them tracking numbers from ups/fed ex. Most of my Large items are being delivered via trucking companies not fed ex/ups and there are no tracking numbers. They said that they would have to receive an email from each account telling them they received the items. I said, if they receive the furniture, what will make them want to go and send paypal a confirmation?? especially if they already received a $10,000 order?? They said they would then call the customer. I find this really hard to believe that they would call each and every one of my customers to verify if they received the items. And what if the people that bought it lied and told them they didnt???? They told me I will need a signature proof of delivery.

This is just all too hard to believe for me. I was like how could this happen to me. Then I found this site.
Paypal Sucks!

I am so pissed at this point, I just feel so violated. I can not believe they get away with this shit. Ebay and paypal only reply to me like this below. You can see my message to them below their response. They never, ever told me anything I did wrong or anything I need to do to fix my account. Only paypal tells me they want Proof of delivery.

Dear Louis Spina,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your account.

Our decision to leave your account suspended indefinitely stands with no
plan for reinstatement.

At this point, we will not accept any additional appeals or requests for
more information. Although we will read emails you send us in the
future, we may not respond.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Eddey
eBay Customer Support
Trust and Safety Operations

Original Message Follows:
-------------------------

Form Message: %43343% 071807
D_ID100520070730D_ID/W_ID124721040W_ID/S_ID000S_ID
Subject: IV%A00268 Appeal suspension [#US &MC113 ?00 ]
User Feedback: 13
User State: ?00
Browser info: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET
CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30)
Home > Help Topics > Rules and Policies > Why was my account
suspended? > Appeal suspension
Message: Im currently in the process of delivering all the items sold to
our buyers. I truely hope this is the reason my account was suspended.
The only information I have been given so far was from Paypal telling me
that they needed me to deliver the items before my paypal account would
be reinstated and I could receive my funds. I hope in the same time, My
ebay account can be reinstated as I would like to continue sellng my
items. I am sure I can become a great asset to ebay with my items.
Thanks and Regards,
Lou Spina

This post has been edited by Nothing: 10/10/07 11:38am

[pezking]

Wow! That's insane.

Just a tip, when dealing with larger amounts of money in transactions like that, I find it easier to go with MonsterCommerce and create my own shopping cart w/their e-commerce utility. Paypal does suck, but there's not too many other "easy" options that are free.

Anyway, really sorry to hear about all that Lou... hope things come out on top.

[Nothing]

paypal is not free by any means. They charge me around 3%. They are supposed to be good protection for the buyer and seller. Really pathetic if you ask me. Hopefully soon, they will be exposed for all of these issues and either they can resolve the problems, or close down completely. The way they are running it, its a problem for many.

[Hellfighter]

paypal is not free by any means. They charge me around 3%. They are supposed to be good protection for the buyer and seller. Really pathetic if you ask me. Hopefully soon, they will be exposed for all of these issues and either they can resolve the problems, or close down completely. The way they are running it, its a problem for many.

You can bet that email they sent was an ass-clown automated message too.

If I were you I'd go the media route. Make some heavy hitter contacts - lawyers who'll work pro-batum and like the publicity and you may find a different 'hospitable' attitude by these shysters who apparently think they're untouchable.

Bad publicity for them is your strongest ally. They're out to rip you off -red flag baloney is not an excuse, you're making an honest living- Maybe they're the ones law enforcement should investigate for fraud. Anyway they have the records to prove your point-go after them like a bulldog and get what you earned.... thats alot of money and toil on your part for them to dismiss without any grounds.
One more thing is usually ebay sends emails of notification of sales to your other normal email account-> like hotmail/yahoo etc.,-I think by default... that may help start the verification thing.....

Also credit card companies may help you out too- they have ALL the records- I'm sure they don't want to be weasled out of payments by paypal/ebay either- look at all the business/money you sent to visa/mastercard in a month-> I'm sure they'll provide weighty assistance.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 10/10/07 1:49pm

[MyWifesMule]

Get yourself a good attorney and sue their ass.

[T/A6Pak]

Hey Lou,

Sorry to hear about your problems with paypal. From the looks of some of the sites, it appears that they have total control. I don't know if you were sending items outside of the US, but if you were .. this might interest you: http://www.paypalwarning.com/paypal_seller_protection_policy it's a complaint regarding selling items to the UK. "Apparently, he had filed a Buyer Complaint with Paypal (for non-receipt of item) as soon as he found out that it had been mailed. Paypal claims to have sent me three email notifications (which is a BLATANT lie) but I didn't respond, so they refunded his money. First of all, I check my email every single day and somehow, every other Paypal message has reached my Inbox - but mysteriously, not these three."

Anyways.. anything we can do to help you out just let us know!! Keep your chin up, it will all work out.

The funny thing is when I looked at your account you had 100% positive feedback.... wow.

T/A6Pak

[Nothing]

I could use credit cards instead of the paypal, but they take a larger commission and the funds are held up for a month before I receive them. Thats why we went with paypal. Such a bad move on our part. And I wonder if I had used credit cards as payment methods if ebay would have suspended my ebay account? They wouldnt have my money to hold and maybe this would never have happened.

[Hellfighter]

I could use credit cards instead of the paypal, but they take a larger commission and the funds are held up for a month before I receive them. Thats why we went with paypal. Such a bad move on our part. And I wonder if I had used credit cards as payment methods if ebay would have suspended my ebay account? They wouldnt have my money to hold and maybe this would never have happened.

No- what I meant was credit cards are what people use for paypal payments primarily- and the credit card companies will have proof of who purchased from you-> basically my suggestion is you contact amex, visa, and mastercard to see if they can assist you- like I said -> with all that money you generated through them in a month I'm sure they'll try put some 'nudging' in your favour.
I think the weasels at paypal are waiting in a corner to see how heavy your foot will fall on them.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 10/10/07 1:55pm

[T/A6Pak]

Lou,

My husband just came in and said the the Internal revenue is going after these ebay stores to get there taxes. Apparently there is a big issue and it's going on in Canada and the US. I'm not suggesting that you're trying to avoid taxes Lou... but just wanted to give you the heads up. Also, can't you get invoices from the trucking company(Bill of Lading)? You might want to get a lawyer Lou.

Shar

[Nothing]

I know with my paypal account, it is directly linked to my bank account, not credit card. I would not even know where to start when going for help with the credit card companies. I think I will hold tight until all my shipments are delivered. They should all be delivered by end of next week. My items were made in the Phillippines and it took time to get to out warehouse and then segregated and then processed for shipping to each customer. Each customer was made aware of the time it would take to ship from the listings though so that should not be an issue.

Lou,

My husband just came in and said the the Internal revenue is going after these ebay stores to get there taxes. Apparently there is a big issue and it's going on in Canada and the US. I'm not suggesting that you're trying to avoid taxes Lou... but just wanted to give you the heads up. Also, can't you get invoices from the trucking company(Bill of Lading)? You might want to get a lawyer Lou.

Shar

I will pay the taxes at the end of the year. I had no intention of avoiding taxes. I can get invoices from the trucking companies, but they only want tracking numbers. I told them we were using trucking companies and that I could provide them the pro numbers, but they would not accept it. They said they would need signature proof of delivery and then they would contact the buyers to confirm. I think this is really bullshit that they can do this. I really never heard such things before.

[Ci.Ci.]

Lou,

I'm very sorry for your problems and I have to go along with Mule on this one.

I myself don't deal with either one . Had trouble with paypal once and won't go back to them on a bet.
Man!!!!! that's alot of money toooooooooo.flushed down the T - - - - - ..................... I pray that you will be able recover your lost.

Ci.Ci.

[Hellfighter]

I know with my paypal account, it is directly linked to my bank account, not credit card. I would not even know where to start when going for help with the credit card companies. I think I will hold tight until all my shipments are delivered. They should all be delivered by end of next week. My items were made in the Phillippines and it took time to get to out warehouse and then segregated and then processed for shipping to each customer. Each customer was made aware of the time it would take to ship from the listings though so that should not be an issue.

Lawyer would sort out the credit card thing I suggested if the Customer Relations at these companies don't point you in the right direction- They all have toll-free numbers so I'm pretty sure you'll know soon enough how far you get with them. Just mention your company name and the tons of $$$ paypal may hold back from you [and the credit coy] over the flimsy red flag reason.... Anyway I'm sure you'll get all your $$$ back in order- try not to worry too much remember- its frozen -> NOT flushed.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 10/10/07 2:04pm

[Midnight Rambler]

I had the same thing happen. I used paypal for checkout on my own website. They canceled a payment to me from a customer for over $600.00 and didn't notify me. The product was shipped and as you can imagine payment was never made. Paypal just decided that a payment that large was "probably" fraud and canceled it.
Good luck fighting with them.

[Rommel]

Get one corporate/commercial lawyer Lou. Bring an action against Pay Pal.

Listen to 6Pak

[Barkmann]

I deal with paypal all the time and so far no problems.