BAILOUT PLAN, Too much, too late? Options

[Hellfighter]

I'm not worthy to even get into the details of what's churning beneath this economic catastrophe looming ahead compared to the gurus we already have here discussing it.

But is it just me in thinking why are Repubs and some Dems in congess/ negotiations holding the US and world economy hostage just to save their political backsides.

As I understand it a massive meltdown like we've never seen in nearly a hundred years is only a step or 2 away, but we have Dems in Congress saying "no-no we can get this bailout plan launched ourselves but we want Repubs taking the plunge with us" and the we have Repubs acting like pussies because several hundred constituents are phoning opposing the plan - are the phone calls multiple calls from a few people, or do the hundreds of calls represent thousands saying 'no' to the plan.

Point is, in the face of a catastrophe shouldn't there be a realization to stave off the crisis at hand and later iron out the wrinkles.
I'm asking the gurus here -is this Global economy Russian Roulette of the worst kind?

So far today the market is showing meltdown fear over this bailout uncertainty.

[HammaTime]

So, your thread is really more about the politicization of the bailout plan...

I'd answer your question by suggesting that Dems have to have Reps onboard, otherwise, as the economy continues to implode, the Republicans could simply point the finger at the Dems and say "we warned you this would happen," even though the imploding had nothing to do with the bailout.

Political cover for both parties requires that they sign into law a bill that garners bi-lateral support.

I don't hold that against them. This is a crisis caused by many, not one party, or one faction. It requires that everyone get onboard and try to solve the crisis.

The one faction left out in all of this seems to be the average American citizen, however.

[Hellfighter]

Yes- I definitely see that they each want to cover their political derrieres....
but isn't time of the absolute essence here - is this a time for them to be playing 'blink first' / 'chicken' etc.,
Things look like are getting very shakey and very fast on the financial markets.
I think citizens globally are going to get screwed if the powers that be play cutting off the nose to spite the face.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 09/29/08 10:17am

[Hellfighter]

Dow down 770+ today.
Who wants to wake up tomorrow or wednesday morning?
10,000 jobs lost in Wall st. the last few weeks.
McCain towing the line for Repubs in Congress to holdout on not giving the bailout plan the green light.
Financial Gurus here please adivse.... what's the reality of disaster descending on us if things are held up much longer?

[Robert]

McCain towing the line for Repubs in Congress to holdout on not giving the bailout plan the green light.
Financial Gurus here please adivse.... what's the reality of disaster descending on us if things are held up much longer?

What do you base than on. McCain took a position on the bailout that i needed to happen, Obama did not.
You could just as easily say Obama failed to get the 40% of Democrat who voted against it, to get on board with the plan.


What really bothers me how little talk there has been to admit this $700 Billion would only be a start according to a lot of economist.

Pelosi's stupid speech just proves why I'm so scared over the idea of Obama being Pres. in a way I wouldn't have been concerned if it were Hillary.
For days there has been an overwhelming call to put aside partisan politics. Then right before the vote she turns the whole mess upside down with last minute finger pointing. The bill would have probably failed anyway but now it will be more of a struggle to get anything done.
I still don't understand why the house rushed this when the senate wouldn't have voted until Wednesday.

[Hellfighter]

McCain towing the line for Repubs in Congress to holdout on not giving the bailout plan the green light.
Financial Gurus here please adivse.... what's the reality of disaster descending on us if things are held up much longer?

What do you base than on. McCain took a position on the bailout that i needed to happen, Obama did not.
You could just as easily say Obama failed to get the 40% of Democrat who voted against it, to get on board with the plan.


What really bothers me how little talk there has been to admit this $700 Billion would only be a start according to a lot of economist.

Pelosi's stupid speech just proves why I'm so scared over the idea of Obama being Pres. in a way I wouldn't have been concerned if it were Hillary.
For days there has been an overwhelming call to put aside partisan politics. Then right before the vote she turns the whole mess upside down with last minute finger pointing. The bill would have probably failed anyway but now it will be more of a struggle to get anything done.
I still don't understand why the house rushed this when the senate wouldn't have voted until Wednesday.

Actually there's alot of talk that the bailout plan is NO guarantee that it'll be the cureall for everything right away.
However, the world markets are praying the US market doesn't collapse -and are desiring any type of plan -part or whole to be agreed upon.If the world markets collapse then likely a bailout plan won't count for much
Time is of the essence.
Yes, a significant number of Dems voted today against the plan -from what I understand they did so because the majority of Repubs who were expected to vote yes suddenly had a change of heart due to their pissy-ness at Pelosi's anti-Repub rant speech just before the voting. Why would that be a reason to cast a vote of spite instead of common sense with so much at stake is pretty clueless imo.
Pretty sad seeing McCain holding a mini press conference yesterday evening for a 2 minute speech blaming Obama for the bailout plan's failure -is he losing it? Not hard to see why the gap is widening when he goes to those extremes to one-up his opponent.
Let's hope ALL the nimrods in the House get there act together for Thursday. It's easy to cry about not having a pretty package for a bailout plan, but what does Congress miss in that a potential world collapse of markets is at the gate and that their political antics can potentially crush the global masses.
You're more the financial gurus here- tell me if that potential's not true.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 09/30/08 2:07am

[Robert]

Interesting perspective on the wall street drop
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/putt...ist=SecMostRead
Largest point loss but not even close to largest percentage.


Then again there was this postive sign on Wall Street yesterday

[HammaTime]

Pelosi's stupid speech just proves why I'm so scared over the idea of Obama being Pres. in a way I wouldn't have been concerned if it were Hillary.
For days there has been an overwhelming call to put aside partisan politics. Then right before the vote she turns the whole mess upside down with last minute finger pointing. The bill would have probably failed anyway but now it will be more of a struggle to get anything done.

ROFLMAO!!!

I thought Radar Magazine got this one about right when they wrote on their blog:

Mindful of the way that Minority Leader John Boehner's rationale for the Republican rejection of the bailout—they voted against it because a speech by Nancy Pelosi hurt their feelings—makes them look like a bunch of gigantic pussies, House Republicans are clamoring to join the Not A Gigantic Pussy caucus.

That was in reference to a posting on Politico where claim Rep. John Shadegg said, "that he doesn't know of a single GOP vote that shifted because of the speech." Others are joining the pussy revolt.

Interesting to hear Andrea Mitchell's reporting on MSNBC that Newt Gingrich was backstabbing Boehner by working behind the scenes to have the measure defeated, yet he came out with a public statement backing the bailout. Here comes Newt '12! I wonder if he will be hiring any interns...

My question is what the hell is happening here? Has everyone gone completely loopy?

[Robert]

So does that mean you don't think Pelosi was stupid for going off on her little rant right before the vote?

I didn't see anyone put this in perspective last night.
What Boehner said was stupid, no doubt about it.
But you have to remember this is the guy who took the unpopular stance with other Republicans to get the bill passed, only to get slapped in the face by Pelosi right before the vote.
Sure people can play this up however they want but there was a number of Republicans who initially were going to vote for this bill even though....
They still had some doubts about it
They still wanted to continue the debate but were cut short.
I think there were several Republicans who probably were going to take a leap of faith with their vote because this was pushed to the floor with the idea it was now or never because of the crisis.
Well after Pelosi's little bitch feast, I think several Republicans decided against that leap of faith.

Look at Jim Clyburn (D) on the today show complaining how the deal fell through because of the Republicans an their laying blame an finger pointing. What the fuck? He was in the house,
Is he deaf? Did her not her Pelosi's little rank? Then has the never to talk about Republicans playing the blame game.

[Hellfighter]

Interesting perspective on the wall street drop
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/putt...ist=SecMostRead
Largest point loss but not even close to largest percentage.


Then again there was this postive sign on Wall Street yesterday

LOL Robert- that's priceless!
There should be something like that for Repubs/Dems in congress solely playing politics rather than their sincere convictions.

That was in reference to a posting on Politico where claim Rep. John Shadegg said, "that he doesn't know of a single GOP vote that shifted because of the speech." Others are joining the pussy revolt.

Pussy comparison is too good for them - at least pussies have claws!
I liked this recent quote in an editorial regarding the house; paraphrasing->
'Once again the Congress are living up to their 10% approval rating.'


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 09/30/08 12:20pm

[Robert]

The Congress approval rating dropped to the single digits today ( 9% )
The most unpopular congress in history yet 3 of the 4 people who are running for President are from the congress.
Maybe it's like work were they promote the guy who sucks just to get him out of the way.

[Robert]

Final irrefutable proof that all questions in life can be answered by Seinfeld
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCZRqH7sRyA

In all seriousness, lets remember what helped get us here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

[HammaTime]

LOL!

Okay, we have to keep all of this in perspective.

1) The group of us belong in that Seinfeld clip

2) Our political and financial system is not "ours."

3) Trying to affix blame is akin to pointing in a house of mirrors. Stop doing it.

4) Look forward, not back.

5) Remember to have fun.

[Robert]

3) Trying to affix blame is akin to pointing in a house of mirrors. Stop doing it.

Someone should have told that to Pelosi yesterday.
Here is what all the majority an minority leaders said right before the vote.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/09...OTE-QUOTES.html
I guess I'm the only one who thinks it's strange that Pelosi freaked out just prior to the vote.
Luckily she hard Barny Rubble to come to her defense.

[Robert]

Remember how Bush got the blame for the housing subprime meltdown even though he called for more oversight and closer regulation of Fannie & Freedie in 2003 and 2004.
Here is a letter from all the top Democrats asking him not only to stop criticizing fannie and freddie but also called for him to recommend even more "inventive" types of loans.
http://financialservices.house.gov/LtrBushGSEs.pdf
I guess Pelosi forgot about this