Swift Vets Options

[Druid]

Most of you already know about the swift vets and their questions/attacks on Kerry.
The most common response by the Kerry Camp is most of the swift vets didn't SERVE with Kerry because they where on other boats.

It's a funny way to get around the subject.
Here is a funny picture, which I think points out the humor.

[Hoods]

Unlike the closeness of this picture of these planes, the boats were not close.

[realdeal]

[Hoods]

They were not in the boat, period.

Let me also remind everyone this was 30 years ago.

[Blakjak]

Who gives a fuck, it's irrelevant and a waste of time to bicker about this issue. There is no viable reason that has yet been presented to me, detailing the importance of all this. Druid, Real, Ashe, care to share?

[realdeal]

Sure!
The issue is that Kerry is basing his entire campaign on his military service record. If that's what he wants to base it on, then questions about his service are fair game, especially if there are falsities involved.

I would love nothing more for both sides to drop this issue so that we can start talking about what I consider even more important, like Kerry's 20 year record in the senate.

The man's been a senator for 20 years... doesn't anyone else think it's odd that he is not basing his campaign on his senate record?

There's a reason for this people.

Here's just a sample:

http://www.gop.com/RNCResearch/Read.aspx?ID=4552

[Bargod]

**WARNING RANT AHEAD**

My wife is a die-hard democrat. I knew this when I started dating her. I also knew (or at the time at least believed) she was an open minded individual (actually, she's not). She has looked forward to every interview she could see with Kerry. She hates G.W. We live in Dallas, which makes it even worse. Even she agrees that Kerry's interviews are crap. He just will not answer questions put to him in a direct way. (Not that she thinks much of Bush's either)
I hate politicians. I think anyone who wants to be president should be disqualified from being president. I don't think either party is very different. They (rep. and dem.) are full of politicians who will tell you what they think you want to hear to get your vote. When it boils down to it, I don't think either party represents the majority of America. They just try to split us on issues that they end up riding the fence on anyway. And even when they do give their oppinion, they can't change anything because the majority of americans want status quo.
What I'm trying to say is we as a nation need to say we are tired of this crap! We need people that really represent us! Instead of trying to divide middle America into one of two parties, try to find what middle America wants. What I find middle America wants is a little bit liberal and a little bit conservative. We want a strong military. We a strong economy. We also want money to go to education. We want money to go to the environment.
When will we get a president who wants to represent the middle? Somebody who says we need to find a good middle ground?
This is the President that I am waiting for.

This post has been edited by Bargod: 08/26/04 4:45am

[Silver]

we need the old mayor of buffalo for prez. JIMMY GRIFFEN!
good guy, did some (allot)of drinking, ran the city great, hell he even kicked the crap out of some other mayor. (made the national news). most realistic man i have ever seen. he was himself, didnt pretend to be someone else or lie about shit.

[Johnzillah]

[Hoods]

It's been down hill ever since Bush has taken office.

I don't know if Bush is bad luck, cursed, or what.

But based on his record, since Bush has taken office, ANY CEO would be fired.

[Druid]

For Blakjak
As RealDeal already pointed out it's important because Kerry made his military service the center piece of his campaign.
Kerry doesn't want to address the issues or his 20 year history in the senate for 3 reasons.
1) If he brings up his voting record, he opens himself to attack for his constant flip-flopping on almost every issue. This goes to show he will say and do whatever he think will get him the most votes. The president shouldn't be an appeaser
2) If he discusses current issues and his plans to fix them, it opens him to attack because his voting record is the opposite of what little he has said his plans are for the country.
3) He doesn't want people looking at his senate record because to win he needs as many independent votes as possible. If these people reviewed his voting record, they would likely not vote for him.
I find it interesting he also never mentions his time as lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts. Of course there is a very good reason for this. Kerry's on the record as supporting Dukakis's furlough program. If you don't remember, the furlough program is a large part of what cost Dukakis the 1988 election. Dukakis was ahead in the race until the issue of his convict furlough program was brought up. This is where they allowed convicts out on the weekend. Well one of the convicts was in prison for murder and was let out for a weekend furlough. While he was out he raped one women and killed 2 people.
What it all comes down to is Kerry made this mess for himself, whats interesting is how he now can't even handle his own mistakes.
Look at the way he's dealt with the swiftvets.
Threatened lawsuits on TV stations which ran the commercials.
Requested bookstores not carry the book "Unfit for command"
Filed a lawsuit citing the ad's as illegal.
If what they said was untrue Kerry could easily prove them wrong by release his full service record, so far he has not done so even though Kerry has twice claimed on TV that he had.

My feeelings on this subject was pointed out far better than I ever could by
Maj. Gen. (ret.) Patrick Brady.

America has no kings or queens but we do have nobility – our nobility is called Veterans. That nobility is responsible for the bounty that is America but tragically their influence has faded in recent years and the values they died for are under attack. But this election year they are back in demand and some have said the veteran vote could decide this election.
John Kerry is seldom seen with out his band of brothers and constantly plays the” hero” card as a cornerstone of his bid for president, indeed, as the definition of who he is. Kerry defines patriotism as “keeping faith with those who wear the uniform of this country. He also brags that he “defended this country as a young man”. If Missouri is the show me state, Veterans are the show me voters – we are not much for words, deeds are our stock in trade. Lets look at Kerry’s deeds.

Before Kerry played his “hero” card, he played the atrocity card. When Kerry came back from Vietnam he joined with Jane Fonda and in 1971 denounced “those who wear the uniform” as terrorists-like rapists and assassins.
He made these charges under oath. Kerry says today that he would have framed some of what he said in 1971 differently. But he does not say he lied, which he did, nor does he apologize. How can one properly frame the denunciations of ones comrades in arms as modern day Genghis Khans?

He could have attacked the war without attacking the warrior. He could have questioned policy without supporting the communists’ claim that our soldiers were war criminals. He could have kept faith with those who wore the uniform with him. But he did not and he should be held accountable.

Kerry’s “hero” card is based on medals he received in Vietnam and is much celebrated, and unchallenged, by the mainstream media. I know many Medal of Honor recipients who have received less publicity for their medal than Kerry has for his. But medals don’t make a hero. It is how one uses medals that make a hero. Every honest soldier knows that medals are a function of circumstance, even happenstance, but most of all the support of ones fellow warriors.

I was awarded the Medal of Honor; but my fellow soldiers who supported me in the actions and took the time to write it up earned it. (##Note Kerry made the request himself for atleast 3 of his medals ##) I wear it for them, they own my medals. And every Medal of Honor recipient and hero I know believes as I do. Medals should be a sign of patriotism, a symbol of sacrifice, support and defense of a great nation. The highest form of patriotism is service to our youth; heroes also wear their medal for them to signal the importance of courage. Heroes do not use their medals for personal political gain. As I said they are not theirs to use.

As a political stunt, Senator Kerry threw his medals away , now it turns out they were not his medals but someones else's, an act very difficult for any veteran to understand. By that act he symbolically denounced his fellow veterans -- again. Does one keep faith with those who wear the uniform by throwing away their medals?

But perhaps most telling of his leadership qualities is his use of his Purple hearts to abandon his band of brothers, his command, on a technicality. Kerry may be the only person in history who took advantage of a Navy regulation that allowed him to leave his command after 4 months for 3 purple hearts none of which ever caused him to miss a day of duty. In my experience men fought to stay with their band of brothers, especially commanders. All the commanders I know would get out of a hospital bed to be with their men. Some one had to take his place; someone probably less experienced who would have to learn the ropes. That put his command more at risk than if he stayed. It is not hard to understand why those who stayed in combat for the full year are upset with Kerry.

And veterans today would be upset with Kerry’s support of Flag Burning his non-support of weapons systems and his 12 votes against military pay raises. But his use of veterans and mis use of his medals should bring into serious question his loyalty, integrity and character all of which equal leadership. He is not fit for command.


If thats not enough reason to explain why this is an important issue maybe this is.
Swift Vets Second Ad.

Sorry for the long post, but you asked.

[Wassy]

[Hard Drive]

I just want someone to tell me what good has Bush even done. I don't want to hear anything about 911 or anything of the such. He can't even get the guy who is responsible.

His campaign is War on Terror. We've always had Terror. What more is he going to be able to do. Nothing. He wants people to think that hes God and hes going to be able to stop terrorist attacks. Fat chance on that. He can't even support border control.

When is he going to deal with issues in our own country rather than going to another country to be a bully. When will he go to North Korea to take care of them. They are more of a threat to us than Sadam was. It was all about money and oil. N.K. does not have anything that Bush wants.

Bush is a dirty guy that needs to be put on trial with his brother Sadam.

Its all about how much more money they can take from the middle class to give to the rich class. Its the middle class thats keeping this country going. We pay for the welfare for the poor class and we pay taxes so that the rich can get a tax break..

Republicans can kiss it.

[realdeal]

Wow! Spoken like a true Liberal.

I love when I hear someone say that we went to Iraq because of oil and money. Can you please explain your position on this to me with some facts?

[Silver]