Truth or Dare, Election Ramifications Options

[Hellfighter]

As you know I'm not pro-Bush on his foreign policies... now that they've got some political clout, will the Dems now ante up and tell us how their influential input will reset the future course in Iraq? I'm thinking not. What are your solutions?

My idea>>> in 1 year US troops should pull out of Baghdad area- then let the Iraqi security forces get a taste for hardcore pulling of their weight. US troops can then deploy along the borders while Iraqi's get school of hard knocks training in large operations by themselves in that area of Iraq. With victories will come confidence. Iraqi citizens will also be getting what most of them hypothesize- US troops out supposedly means a de-escalation of terrorist attacks. As for secterian violence, I don't think US troops can stay in Iraq forever to police that. Sooner or later Iraqis have to sort that out by themselves alone.

[Nothing]

I totally disagree with you. Our economy has gone to shit since Bush has been in office. Look at the euro vs. the dollar these days. Thats one example. Look at how many companies have closed and all the people that are out of work still now because of it. The economy has only stabled. It has not continuously decreased. Thats it! If you think our economy has increased, what are you basing it on? The alltime low we hit? Do you remember hearing about the surplus the government had? Do you remember getting a refund check from the government. I do. That was stupid to refund that to us. That was his attempt to win over stupid americans for his next election. Our national debt is at an alltime high.

Regarding the exit strategy, All I kept hearing during his running for Presidency on his second term was having an exit strategy. They had an exit strategy that would take time to accomplish. What happened to it? If im right, we have only sent more and more soldiers to Iraq. I dont believe this is comparable to WWII because we were not being told we would be letting their country run themselves and then sending more and more troops. Actually, wasnt the reason we went there to begin with to take our Saddam and find their weapons of mass destruction??? We have no business still being there to run their country. They have their own government in place. We need to let them run it themselves. We cant be the worlds bodyguard on every civil issue in every country in the world.

[Glyn Gardner]

I totally disagree with you. Our economy has gone to shit since Bush has been in office. Look at the euro vs. the dollar these days. Thats one example. Look at how many companies have closed and all the people that are out of work still now because of it. The economy has only stabled. It has not continuously decreased. Thats it! If you think our economy has increased, what are you basing it on? The alltime low we hit? Do you remember hearing about the surplus the government had? Do you remember getting a refund check from the government. I do. That was stupid to refund that to us. That was his attempt to win over stupid americans for his next election. Our national debt is at an alltime high.

Regarding the exit strategy, All I kept hearing during his running for Presidency on his second term was having an exit strategy. They had an exit strategy that would take time to accomplish. What happened to it? If im right, we have only sent more and more soldiers to Iraq. I dont believe this is comparable to WWII because we were not being told we would be letting their country run themselves and then sending more and more troops. Actually, wasnt the reason we went there to begin with to take our Saddam and find their weapons of mass destruction??? We have no business still being there to run their country. They have their own government in place. We need to let them run it themselves. We cant be the worlds bodyguard on every civil issue in every country in the world.

Hey, I'm no economist, but right now, the DOW is at 12,133.56. I remember hearing the BIG NEWS in the 90's about it breaking 10,000 for the first time. So, if the DOW is UP 20%, then how is our economy in the toilet. Someone who understands economics better than me please explain that to me.



As for the exit strategy thing, I'm getting tired of hearing it. Why are we going to anounce to the world (and the bad guys in Iraq) that this is what we are going to do to leave? If I knew what the US was going to do in order to leave, I'd either a) make sure that didn't happen, or make it happen on MY time schedule so I'd be the strongest guy in Iraq when the US left. What we need to do, is get the PM, who is a Suni, to get people like Al Sader to get onboard with the new government, and quit running private armies with their own agendas. These religious leaders in Iraq don't want a secular government. They want a government run by their own particular brand of Islam. These are the people who need to start playing ball. They have real power and refuse to fully back the government.

[Hellfighter]

Hey, I'm no economist, but right now, the DOW is at 12,133.56. I remember hearing the BIG NEWS in the 90's about it breaking 10,000 for the first time. So, if the DOW is UP 20%, then how is our economy in the toilet. Someone who understands economics better than me please explain that to me.



As for the exit strategy thing, I'm getting tired of hearing it. Why are we going to anounce to the world (and the bad guys in Iraq) that this is what we are going to do to leave? If I knew what the US was going to do in order to leave, I'd either a) make sure that didn't happen, or make it happen on MY time schedule so I'd be the strongest guy in Iraq when the US left. What we need to do, is get the PM, who is a Suni, to get people like Al Sader to get onboard with the new government, and quit running private armies with their own agendas. These religious leaders in Iraq don't want a secular government. They want a government run by their own particular brand of Islam. These are the people who need to start playing ball. They have real power and refuse to fully back the government.

A good indicator of how the economy is fairing in a general way is housing starts; in the US they're going down. Other than that you're right about the economy seeming to be in good shape what with big boom of available jobs lately. Tax cut strategy is apparently paying off too. All the 'wild' stock market figures are saying to me is that the rich are getting richer. Anyway all that good news means inflation rates will likely be going up. Regarding illegals 'taking' jobs- the way I see it is they create better jobs for locals in a round about way.... more 'gathering food' workers means more produced to be shipped- means more processing plants with more skilled labour and more transporters and managers - I think.

Regarding your Iraq comment, you said the key phrase "they want". I believe it's all coming down to that statement. We can't hold their hand forever. Blame who you want for the current mess [I don't hear much about Sadamned not getting much blame-seeing as he could've easily avoided a war by allowing inspectors in to show he in fact had no wmds], but the current status-quo is decimating every innocent in Iraq now. A new strategy is needed - push must now come to shove -the current strategy will not achieve victory. Only Iraqis can do that now I think.

Look at the news today- 150 guys snatched in 20 vans!!!! that's ridiculous - a huge convoy of the enemy freely roaming about and slipping away undetected. Dozens of iraqi police recruits get blasted in a single attack. There is no control the way things are now. Iraqis who want freedom need to face the fact that it'stime to lash back at the enemy. In my opinion they need to undergo a 6 month curfew/lockdown of Baghdad and surrounding area. Let the Iraqi security forces saturate the region and get back confidence. Seems like the rest of Iraq is running 'normal' but the current government in Iraq clearly has no real power if they don't show no-nonsense control in Baghdad. I think it's the iraqi government's fault trying to think there can be a strategy to be all things to all people.... civilised people of various differences will get together and solve their differences but the bands of butchers in fact have free reign to run wild and tear down any civilised progress.

[HammaTime]

It is foolish to hold the Dow up as an indicator of the U.S. economy. The Dow no longer reflects the U.S. economy - it reflects the global economy. This is why housing can be down and many of our remaining home-based manufacturing facilities are being shut down all the while the Dow is booming.

Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel-winning economist and Harvard's Linda Blimes have calculated that the true cost of the Iraq war will be US$2 trillion (for our European friends, the US trillion is equivalent to your thousand billions). My eyes gloss over whenever I see a figure like that. To put that into perspective, that is the same as spending US$2.7 million every single day since Jesus walked the earth! http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/050682.html

Put it another way, that is a bill that will come due of over US$666,000.00 for every man, woman and child alive in America today!

Perhaps the Dow is up because investors might perceive a slight slowing in the fiscal hemorraging that has become defacto in US policy. Afterall, this election was more about the economy than it was Iraq. People are tired of politicians lining their pockets while building US$232 million bridges to no where. http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/20...dges/index.html

Exit polls showed that voters were more concerned about the economy than they were about the Iraq war or terrorism. Data also shows that the growth in personal income varied widely throughout the U.S. If you lived in Wyoming, Arizona or Nevada, your average personal income went up almost 50% and, in turn, you most likely voted for Republicans. If you lived in Michigan, Ohio or New Hampshire, you didn't do so well and you most likely voted for Democrats. http://usmarket.seekingalpha.com/article/20533

It's the economy, stupid! And most of us are still mighty concerned.

[Cpt. Snot Rocket]

The fact of the matter is that the economy is in fantatstic shape. It been as good as it has ever been since the founding of the country. The liberal media is what keeps telling us that it is so bad. Why? Because the Elephants are in charge. As soon as the Democrats are in power you'll start to hear that the economy is in great shape. This reminds me of when Reagan and Bush were in office and all the media started on about how homeless people are everywhere and the economy is so bad, yadda yadda, yadda. After Clinton was elected, like magic, the homeless "problem" disappeared and the economy was great.

This is why housing can be down and many of our remaining home-based manufacturing facilities are being shut down all the while the Dow is booming.
------------- The housing boon has been on 10 year all time high, just because it has slowed back to normal does not mean the economy is dead.


Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel-winning economist and Harvard's Linda Blimes have calculated that the true cost of the Iraq war will be US$2 trillion (for our European friends, the US trillion is equivalent to your thousand billions). My eyes gloss over whenever I see a figure like that. To put that into perspective, that is the same as spending US$2.7 million every single day since Jesus walked the earth! http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/050682.html
Put it another way, that is a bill that will come due of over US$666,000.00 for every man, woman and child alive in America today!
-----------I've seen the same numbers and style portayed when we ran huge deficit in fighting the 'cold war'. Funny thing, but after we won the war and the economy picked up and we cut defense spending, none of us had to right a check for $1/2Million dollars.


Perhaps the Dow is up because investors might perceive a slight slowing in the fiscal hemorraging that has become defacto in US policy. Afterall, this election was more about the economy than it was Iraq. People are tired of politicians lining their pockets while building US$232 million bridges to no where. http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/20...dges/index.html
---------Actually the Dow will now start to slide. This is because there is clear historical records that show the investors do not like a mixed Presidency and Congress (refering to parties here). The economy does much better when either party holds both positions.


Exit polls showed that voters were more concerned about the economy than they were about the Iraq war or terrorism. Data also shows that the growth in personal income varied widely throughout the U.S. If you lived in Wyoming, Arizona or Nevada, your average personal income went up almost 50% and, in turn, you most likely voted for Republicans. If you lived in Michigan, Ohio or New Hampshire, you didn't do so well and you most likely voted for Democrats. http://usmarket.seekingalpha.com/article/20533

--------Interesting. However those same states generaly lean more towards the parties they voted for. Michigan, Indiana and Ohio have been blistered by the floundering Automotive industries. As much as 30% or more of their economies are dependent on the car.

It's the economy, stupid! And most of us are still mighty concerned.

------- Yes, it is, or at least perceived to be.