The war in Iraq, Justified? Options

[Kleerance]

I just wonder what you North Americans feel about the war in Iraq.

Do you think it's right? (why/why not?)

This war is expensive for US. How much are you willing to sacrifice from a domestic perspective (money and casualties) to win.

Other strong opinions...?

I am just curious.......

[Rommel]

[Capt. Andtennille]

LOL.



No War = No Freedom. The islomofascists have been attacking EVERYONE for centuries. George Bush finally had enough when they struck the Twin Towers. Something like 93% of the world's conflicts involve Muslims, but Rommel (sitting in Norway of all places) blames George Bush. When Norway gets into trouble I'll be sure to call my congressman and tell them to stay out of it.

[Hellfighter]

LOL.



No War = No Freedom. The islomofascists have been attacking EVERYONE for centuries. George Bush finally had enough when they struck the Twin Towers. Something like 93% of the world's conflicts involve Muslims, but Rommel (sitting in Norway of all places) blames George Bush. When Norway gets into trouble I'll be sure to call my congressman and tell them to stay out of it.

Where do we start with a post like this;
You write as if the Western/euro powers have been pacifist goody two-shoes influences in the past millenium.... read some real history books lately?
Who doesn't blame George Bush- only 30% of Americans support George Bush's personal/vendtta/crusade war- read your current affairs lately? Your smug snipe at Rommel's place of birth only cheapens your uninformed character further - If you knew what his noble profession is and things that he's done in real life then you'd feel like an ant in his presence.
By the way smart-guy your BUSH buddy, the CIA, the UN and just about everyone with half a brain will gladly tell you the reason to go to war was not about revenge/retaliation strike for the twin towers... it was about WMD WMD WMD......and getting Saddam out of power to be replaced by what the neo-cons delusionally thought would be an easy transfer of power to a puppet/quasi democratic Iraqi government.
Who precisely is Norway going to get in trouble with? They don't have a maverick 'leader' spending ludicrous amounts of money on an unwinnable war [as long as troop levels are insufficient] and sending of its youngsters and family parents on 3 or 4 tours against a collection of factions of enemies that will always have limitless numbers of cannon fodder.
Sure- go call your neo-con congressman while you can-he'll likely be gone in a couple of years when the majority of Americans make the right call to end the quagmire of the current state of affairs.
Seeing as you're so concerned about stopping conflicts, why don't you sign-up for service if you're of age.
Too many conservative pro-Bush chicken-hawks just love the idea of fighting wars they get to sit back, watch and play no direct role in. Oblivious to the real hurt and suffering going on for a cause that's going nowhere fast.
There are those who are saying we can't leave. One day Iraq will be on its own and vultures set to tear it apart from inside and outside its borders are waiting in the wings. It's ignorant to think al quaeda would take over Iraq-sure they can be the mindless destructive shit disturbers there but if you think they'd be bold enough to assume they can take control of a nation like they do the rural iraqi villages they control once in a while, I think you're nuts. Lots of Iraqis want payback on any al queda they can get there hands on - You think Iran would sit back and let al quaeda take over- Do you see how Iraqi militias and insurgents torture ach other to death- even al quaeda operatives would piss their pants if they knew they'd get taken prisoner by them.
The way I look at it is, even if Iraqis had their own revolution that toppled Saddam we'd see a huge bloodletting in the population as factions wrestled for control. And you tell me- do you believe the US and its coalition would dare move into such a chaos to patrol and try and seperate the factions. I would hope this current surge works, but my feeling is let the Iraqis meddle out their own affairs... fight the real enemy that Bush's escapade has motivated; keep the troops pulverising pee-on al quaeda operatives along the Syrian border - the source of the suicide bombers - al aquaeda aren't street fighters-they're cowardly silent killers-get them in the open deserts before they mingle into general populations!!!! And don't forget about Afghanistan.

In spite of Bush's desperate propoganda machine to spin the Iraq war as ultimately what will crush al quaeda if victory is even possible there, get real -It's not Iraq where the next world-stage attack will come from or be directed from. Some will venture to say 'but we haven't been attacked since 9-11'. Well be realistic; worldwide devastating al aquaeda attacks have occurred and they are pushing their influence in Arab states, S.E Asia, and N/E Africa and how many homegrown cells are already in many Western nations planning, how many near-complete attack attempts have we foiled in all these places too? Al quaeda is resurging back to full capability; we had them on the ropes with their faces smashed to a pulp before Bush prodded by the neo-con baffoons rediverted his attention into Iraq thinking they were going to 'save the world' with the new brand of enforced democracy strategy.

Finally in retrospect its idiotic that neo-cons continue bashing Clinton for apparently doing little against Bin Laden when in fact he made some efforts at least. What- tell me you Bush fans- what did Bush do before 9-11 when he took over? He dismissed reports 'BinLaden ready to fly planes into buildings' -ie, no increased airport security at that time NOR any efforts to seek out Bin Laden any more than Clinton did- in fact I say he did much less - just like all the repubs were whining about the Monica affair instead of using their supposedly great insight to persuade Clnton to take out Al queada at all costs.

I just wonder ultimately, how many 'terrorist' local drug dealing street-gangs here in N.America could we take out and how many poor rural citizens in southern states we could bring up to a decent lifestyle with the large portion of 1 trillion dollars invested in the Iraq War.





This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 08/15/07 11:31am

[Capt. Andtennille]

LOL.



No War = No Freedom. The islomofascists have been attacking EVERYONE for centuries. George Bush finally had enough when they struck the Twin Towers. Something like 93% of the world's conflicts involve Muslims, but Rommel (sitting in Norway of all places) blames George Bush. When Norway gets into trouble I'll be sure to call my congressman and tell them to stay out of it.

Where do we start with a post like this;
You write as if the Western/euro powers have been pacifist goody two-shoes influences in the past millenium.... read some real history books lately?
Who doesn't blame George Bush- only 30% of Americans support George Bush's personal/vendtta/crusade war- read your current affairs lately? Your smug snipe at Rommel's place of birth only cheapens your uninformed character further - If you knew what his noble profession is and things that he's done in real life then you'd feel like an ant in his presence.
By the way smart-guy your BUSH buddy, the CIA, the UN and just about everyone with half a brain will gladly tell you the reason to go to war was not about revenge/retaliation strike for the twin towers... it was about WMD WMD WMD......and getting Saddam out of power to be replaced by what the neo-cons delusionally thought would be an easy transfer of power to a puppet/quasi democratic Iraqi government.
Who precisely is Norway going to get in trouble with? They don't have a maverick 'leader' spending ludicrous amounts of money on an unwinnable war [as long as troop levels are insufficient] and sending of its youngsters and family parents on 3 or 4 tours against a collection of factions of enemies that will always have limitless numbers of cannon fodder.
Sure- go call your neo-con congressman while you can-he'll likely be gone in a couple of years when the majority of Americans make the right call to end the quagmire of the current state of affairs.
Seeing as you're so concerned about stopping conflicts, why don't you sign-up for service if you're of age.
Too many conservative pro-Bush chicken-hawks just love the idea of fighting wars they get to sit back, watch and play no direct role in. Oblivious to the real hurt and suffering going on for a cause that's going nowhere fast.
There are those who are saying we can't leave. One day Iraq will be on its own and vultures set to tear it apart from inside and outside its borders are waiting in the wings. It's ignorant to think al quaeda would take over Iraq-sure they can be the mindless destructive shit disturbers there but if you think they'd be bold enough to assume they can take control of a nation like they do the rural iraqi villages they control once in a while, I think you're nuts. Lots of Iraqis want payback on any al queda they can get there hands on - You think Iran would sit back and let al quaeda take over- Do you see how Iraqi militias and insurgents torture ach other to death- even al quaeda operatives would piss their pants if they knew they'd get taken prisoner by them.
The way I look at it is, even if Iraqis had their own revolution that toppled Saddam we'd see a huge bloodletting in the population as factions wrestled for control. And you tell me- do you believe the US and its coalition would dare move into such a chaos to patrol and try and seperate the factions. I would hope this current surge works, but my feeling is let the Iraqis meddle out their own affairs... fight the real enemy that Bush's escapade has motivated; keep the troops pulverising pee-on al quaeda operatives along the Syrian border - the source of the suicide bombers !!!! And don't forget about Afghanistan.
It's not Iraq where the next world-stage attack will come from or be directed from. Some will venture to say 'but we haven't been attacked since 9-11'. Well be realistic; worldwide devastating al aquaeda attacks have occurred and they are pushing their influence in Arab tates, S.E Asia, and N/E Africa and how many homegrown cells are already in many Western nations planning, how many near-complete attack attempts have we foiled in all these places too? Al quaeda is resurging back to full capability; we had them on the ropes with their faces smashed to a pulp before Bush prodded by the neo-con baffoons rediverted his attention into Iraq thinking they were going to 'save the world' with the new brand of enforced democracy strategy.

Finally in retrospect its idiotic that neo-cons continue bashing Clinton for apparently doing little against Bin Laden when in fact he made some efforts at least. What- tell me you Bush fans- what did Bush do before 9-11 when he took over? He dismissed reports 'BinLaden ready to fly planes into buildings' -ie, no increased airport security at that time NOR any efforts to seek out Bin Laden any more than Clinton did- in fact I say he did much less - just like all the repubs were whining about the Monica affair instead of using their supposedly great insight to persuade Clnton to take out Al queada at all costs.

Blah Blah Blah

Rommell may have indeed have a noble pofession but he's the one who made the post with the anti-Bush graphic. No Fascism, Marxism, Communism = No War. IIRC there has never been a case where one democracy has declared war on another.



His post implies that the whole mess was started by Bush. You are making basically the same assertion. Bush should have known about it in the 10 months he was in office but Clinton gets a pass because he only had 8 years. Get real.



I'm well past the age where I can sign up for service, but If the position that you're espousing prevails I will be heavily involved fighting the islomofascists here at home. Right now I'm just happy we get to fight them there.



I have nothing against either of you personally, but I'm really sick of you guys from other countries telling us how to run ours while at the same time being enjoying the fruits of our success and safety we provide.



Another thing. I wouldn't feel like an ant in ANYONE's presence. If I met Rommel I may indeed be duly impressed by him as a man and by his accomplishments. That would in no way diminish my view of myself.

[Hellfighter]

....................
Blah Blah Blah

Rommell may have indeed have a noble pofession but he's the one who made the post with the anti-Bush graphic. No Fascism, Marxism, Communism = No War. IIRC there has never been a case where one democracy has declared war on another.

United States vs. GB /Canada- War of 1812

....................
His post implies that the whole mess was started by Bush. You are making basically the same assertion. Bush should have known about it in the 10 months he was in office but Clinton gets a pass because he only had 8 years. Get real.

When it came down to it- even after full access granted to UN Inspectors, Bush CHOSE to up the ante by making the final case to go to war coming down to Saddam stepping down from power and leaving Iraq in a set time period- Yes he started that War. The mess came when we found out that after the military did their job smashing their way to Baghdad, Bush's admin in fact had no plan to fill the inevitable political void in Iraq-so yes there is a strong asserttion he started the mess.
Haven't you followed the post 9-11 enquiries that showed Bush had a good idea something was coming but did el Zippo and CHOSE to ignore the threat. Look through these links if you want to be objectively informed;
http://www.buzzflash.com/perspectives/911bush.html

I'm well past the age where I can sign up for service, but If the position that you're espousing prevails I will be heavily involved fighting the islomofascists here at home. Right now I'm just happy we get to fight them there.

Well it goes without saying anyone but a traitor wouldn't fight an enemy in their neighbourhood.
So really then you aren't fighting them directly-so that's why you're happy 'we're' fighting them there. I doubt the soldiers are too happy not seeing an end in the near future despite military successes in the field.
-secondly those 'al quaeda crossing the Syrian border are cannon fodder-merely diversionary elements. Al quaeda aren't street fighters-they'd get their arses handed to them. The real 9-11 type killers must be waiting in the wings in their targeted country like sleeper cells. Do you really believe a total victory in Iraq miraculously ceases any terrorist threat thereafter?

I have nothing against either of you personally, but I'm really sick of you guys from other countries telling us how to run ours while at the same time being enjoying the fruits of our success and safety we provide.

Once again- 70% of Americans are against this Bush adventure into Iraq. So you can be sick all you want but remind yourself you are in the minority at home too regarding your opinion. People with the anti- Iraq war sentiment are not generally America haters -so don't confuse yourself- they are against Bush and Cheney's disastrous policies. And get off the high horse about safety 'we provide'.... I'm the first one to blast anyone here who rants anti-america, but realize USA and its chums need each other. If China/Russia or N.Korea are ever in a position to make their move to use force, the USA can only go so far alone militarily against other massive superpowers..

Another thing. I wouldn't feel like an ant in ANYONE's presence. If I met Rommel I may indeed be duly impressed by him as a man and by his accomplishments. That would in no way diminish my view of myself.

Yes you'd be impressed. The ant thing was to let you know he has a face and doesn't need putting down- He's bashing Bush, not your country.

people might think back to Rome and how well a rublic worked for them dot dot dot

Just like communism, the Roman system was really only ideal for the priviledged class. Everyone one else were mere minions that had to keep in line or else; 25 year obligatory service in a Roman legion not my idea of working out well either.








This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 08/15/07 5:12pm