Gun Control, A rational discussion Options

[Bargod]

I thought we'd take this discussion off the pic thread and give it it's own area. I'll start with the quote from Junkie:

Guns don't kill people. Crazy people kill people. With a gun, knife, or a wet noodle people are going to be violent with each other. I have several guns. Most of which have not been fired in years. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to shoot anyone but if someone chooses to come into my house uninvited they very well may get a double barreled chest full. Do I think the average person needs an assault rifle? Hell no. But should they be able to keep guns for defense and hunting purposes? For sure.

I have no bias towards one side or the other and find this an interesting topic. I know many people feel strongly one way or the other. I'm not one of those people.
Having said that, I would like to point out that "Crazy people" don't kill people. The majority of murders are between people who know each other. Guns make murder much easier to accomplish. So, gun owners are often the most successful murderers. This, of course, does not make all gun owners bad people. Anyone can lose their cool and when combined with alcohol can act out in violent ways. This is why it is illegal to carry guns into bars. If some drunk guys get into a fist fight nobody is likely to get killed. If somebody pulls a knife, things are going to get worse. I had two waiters who worked together get into a fight and one hit the other in the face with a pint glass. The glass just missed his carotid artery and his eye. What do you think would have happened if that guy had a gun? The guy who only has a scar on his face would have no face. The buddy of the guy that got hit in the face was close to breaking the attackers neck until I stepped in. What do you think would have happed to that guy after his friends head got blown off. Hell, in his drunken panic he could have shot at me just for being there. These two waiters drank together regularly. They got into a fight over who won the most pool games in the bar they were in before they came to mine. They were betting a nickel a game!!!

I won't say all gun owners are potential murderers, but you are less likely to kill somebody in a murderous rage if you don't have a gun. This is one of the reasons I don't want to have a gun in my house. I like to drink and sometimes I get very pissed off at people.

Guns do protect homeowners. Last year a little old lady living in public housing down the street from me shot and killed an intruder in her home. He was unarmed, but she didn't know that, and he wouldn't have needed a weapon to do bodily harm to her anyway. She's an example of the positive side of gun ownership.

I also don't buy into the "more guns means safer citizens" arguement. Australia has very strict gun control and it's murder rate has gone down. The reason? There are fewer murders involving guns. This means that what could have been a murder is more likely now just an assault.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2004/06/08/1127171.htm

I personally think Michael Moore is a self agrandizing ego maniac, but he made some decent points in Bowling for Columbine.
It is very unlikely that incident would have been possible if it weren't for the weapons they used. Even if they were limited to revolvers and single shot hunting rifles it would have been a different result.

I don't claim to have any answers, but I'd like to hear other oppinions on this.

[Ghost Child]

Watch the Video of the week.

http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/public/903.cfm

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

Well, it sure must be terrible living in a country where apparently none of you feel safe unless your packing heat.

I live in a place where I don't lock my door, day or night, nor do I own a gun. Amazingly, I don't constantly fear for my life either.

[Capt. Andtennille]

Well, it sure must be terrible living in a country where apparently none of you feel safe unless your packing heat.

I live in a place where I don't lock my door, day or night, nor do I own a gun. Amazingly, I don't constantly fear for my life either.

I suspected you were from another country, which one?



I wouldn't say that no one can feel safe unless they are packing heat in the U.S.. I do own guns, don't carry (illegal in my state) and don't fear for my life. My country has a constitution that guarantees my rights to own a gun if I so choose. It sure must be terrible living in a country where apparently none of it's citizens can be trusted.

And it is so true, people kill people, not guns. If someone wanted to kill another person, there is many things they could use, if guns were banned, they would be using something else. If you want me to make a list of things they could use, I would. But dont want to inspire some young nuts that may be viewing this, lol.

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

Well, it sure must be terrible living in a country where apparently none of you feel safe unless your packing heat.

I live in a place where I don't lock my door, day or night, nor do I own a gun. Amazingly, I don't constantly fear for my life either.

I suspected you were from another country, which one?



I wouldn't say that no one can feel safe unless they are packing heat in the U.S.. I do own guns, don't carry (illegal in my state) and don't fear for my life. My country has a constitution that guarantees my rights to own a gun if I so choose. It sure must be terrible living in a country where apparently none of it's citizens can be trusted.

And it is so true, people kill people, not guns. If someone wanted to kill another person, there is many things they could use, if guns were banned, they would be using something else. If you want me to make a list of things they could use, I would. But dont want to inspire some young nuts that may be viewing this, lol.

Look, it was you who posted an image of a woman either cringing in fear or pointing a gun at a person. You don't live it fear? Well, certainly that ad was selling fear, or in its place, the thrill of being able to shove a gun in the face of those that scare you.

Anyway, my country is Canada. We do have guns. My neighbor has many guns. And he uses the same rational to "defend his family' stuff, which I just laught at because there hasn't been a home invasion where I live by strangers...well, as far as I can remeber. Might as well put up nets to defend against killer flying squirrels! So, either the "safety" argument has to be either an excuse, or you live in some sort of fear that you can't protect yourself from serious dangers you perceive around you.

Anyway, again, my neighbor with the guns, he's a gun collector. OK, I can accept that. Get permits, be totally criminal free, etc. If you really want to collect guns, jump through a couple hoops. After all, "dynamite doesn't kill people, people kill people", but hey, pretty sure you still need to jump though a couple hoops before you can buy a crate of dynamite! Anyway, making it tougher to get guns allows you limit the amount of guns floating around. Houses do get broken into here, as anywhere. But at least most theives, who ALMOST ALWAYS invade when a house is empty, rarely gets to cart away a handful of weapons because the fact is not that many people have them, especially not easy-to-conceal weapons like submachine guns and handguns. I mean, come on. You say only the criminal will have guns....guess where the criminal get most of their guns. By stealing them from ordinary people!

Anyway, here's a couple most common myths that just do not stand up to any scutiny IMO.

1. "Guns don't kill people." A gun is a weapon. Its purpose and design is to kill. Cars aren't designed to kill, but guns are, and for little other purpose. Stop pretending guns and the murder rate have nothing in common.

2. "You can't compare to other countries, they are different." Countries that never had guns and have very different cultures, like Japan, I could accept as not being that relevant. But places like Australia and Ireland where guns were common and the culture was not terrible different...of course you can make comparisons! To dismiss this is to try and dismiss any evidence that you find contridictory.

3. "Only the criminal will have guns". All I know is the US has far a far higher percentage of people using guns to kill other people than a country to it's north that has a very similar culture, but not a "gun" culture. So how can that be, given far fewer law abiding citizens here (Canada) have guns? According to the "gun lobby" theory, our country should be overrun with criminal because they have all the guns, and we don't. In reality, it's the opposite. Less guns overall means less guns in circulation and less gun crimes, period.

I could go on, but I'm getting a little bored! Anyway, let people not get the impression I don't think guns are pretty cool. But if we took gun lobby arguments to their extreme and let everyone walk around with a gun, it'd be the wild west. Maybe you wouldn't get a massacre every 10 years where one or two guys get 20-30 people before being stopped, bu instead you'd have daily shoot-outs and literally 100's of more people blown away daily. Frankly, there's a lot of stupid, short tempered, emotional people out there, and I'd rather they didn't have the ability to buy a few guns on a whim.

Anyway, as for my comment about "living in a country with fear" I'll add that wasn't meant as an insult to America. More as a provacative statment to call people out on the argument that it is all about "protection", because I think the protection issue is mostly bull. A lot of people just like the power a gun offers in their hands, and the right to own guns has become a quasi-religious dogma in some peoples minds. Me, I might own a gun someday, but I'll uses it for either hunting/sporting, or target practice, and I won't complain like bloddy hell that it isn't a .45 calibre handgun that can blow a guys head off because I need it to prevent the King of England from marching in!