wondering everyones thoughts on this Options

[UNDEAD 1]

im split on this one,something tells me our gov will take advantage of this down the road.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071218/pl_nm/...u9leqt1OD0E1vAI

[T/A6Pak]

Wow, that is scary.. Interception of telecommunications without a warrant!! This means that any communication you have has a chance to be intercepted. I'm not up to date on all the facts on this bill. But I know in Canada, we need a warrant. If you have enough solid information, a warrant is easy to get. Why are these communication compainies doing the spying.. that should be done by intelligence units.

Watch what you say, big brother is listening!!

[Cpt. Snot Rocket]

Must be nice being Canadian and not a target of international terrorist conspiracies hell bent on the destruction of your country and people. Yes, I know there are terrorist in Canada, but you have to admit that Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chavez, and others, are not screaming for the destruction of Canada.



Warrants are often too little too late when trying to root out terrorist cells within ones borders. These actions are consistant when a country is at war. Similar things where done by Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War and as well as during WWI and WWII. The US government does not have an unlimited capacity to record and investigate every single person electronic/phone messaging. They are focused on known or suspected terrorist activities/people.



Am I wholy confortable about this, no. I am certainly concerned about its use. But, I realize we are at war with an enemy that is in hiding. The US has not had a attack on our soil since 9/11, but there have been over 200 plots stopped partly because of the efforts to monitor messages.



When a nuclear bomb goes off in New York, the last thing anyone will care about is that the goverment was monitoring messages without a warrant. In fact, the public will demand that they should have done more to stop the plot. And you know I'm right.



Let's say that Hellfighter was calling his drug runner in Florida arranging the next shipment of heroin. The US goverment, picks up on this. However, they cannot make an arrest of anyone, because the evidence would not have been obtained properly. Now, of course, they would be on too Hellfighter and his supplier and may begin to follow him and get further warrant's, ect., and then make an arrest based on the new evidence. Hellfighter would argue that it is unfair that the goverment knew about his drug dealing. But Hellfighter should not being doing illegal activities anyway. So I could care less.



Regardless, I feel it is important that the telecommincations companies be freely able to work with the goverment during times of war without penalties of "civil rights" lawsuits. If not, how are we ever going to monitor terrorists? How are we going to stop the next 9/11?

[Hellfighter]

Must be nice being Canadian and not a target of international terrorist conspiracies hell bent on the destruction of your country and people. Yes, I know there are terrorist in Canada, but you have to admit that Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chavez, and others, are not screaming for the destruction of Canada.



Warrants are often too little too late when trying to root out terrorist cells within ones borders. These actions are consistant when a country is at war. Similar things where done by Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War and as well as during WWI and WWII. The US government does not have an unlimited capacity to record and investigate every single person electronic/phone messaging. They are focused on known or suspected terrorist activities/people.



Am I wholy confortable about this, no. I am certainly concerned about its use. But, I realize we are at war with an enemy that is in hiding. The US has not had a attack on our soil since 9/11, but there have been over 200 plots stopped partly because of the efforts to monitor messages.



When a nuclear bomb goes off in New York, the last thing anyone will care about is that the goverment was monitoring messages without a warrant. In fact, the public will demand that they should have done more to stop the plot. And you know I'm right.



Let's say that Hellfighter was calling his drug runner in Florida arranging the next shipment of heroin. The US goverment, picks up on this. However, they cannot make an arrest of anyone, because the evidence would not have been obtained properly. Now, of course, they would be on too Hellfighter and his supplier and may begin to follow him and get further warrant's, ect., and then make an arrest based on the new evidence. Hellfighter would argue that it is unfair that the goverment knew about his drug dealing. But Hellfighter should not being doing illegal activities anyway. So I could care less.



Regardless, I feel it is important that the telecommincations companies be freely able to work with the goverment during times of war without penalties of "civil rights" lawsuits. If not, how are we ever going to monitor terrorists? How are we going to stop the next 9/11?

Let's say Hellfighter used as an example as a drug lord is highly unlikely since he doesn't even touch pot and is lacto-vegetarian. Let's say that analogy would be as humourous as me commenting with rationale about Captain Rocket in the act of pimping out one or more of his closest female loved ones....

and mr.Rocket, let's also say what you don't mind at all your bimbo-headed buddy Bush doing is what all those list of bad guys you mention did without fear of people speaking up - decisions made without fear of consequences- your mom, brother, sister disappears and no one is accountable- what would you say then Mr.Rocket- you know they're innocent but you have bush's henchmen telling you by executive privileges you can't know where they are-they don't have a lawyer- who their accusers are, nor what is being done to them- I think your thinking you yourself are immune from of all of this... but when it comes the day you are accused by someone unknown of being 'american Taliban Rocket' and get whisked away for waterboarding - what will you do without those protections that are supposed to safeguard you.....?

So what you're saying is you want the tearing up of the constitution in favour of goose-stepping Napoleon's YOU elected. I fear you have no idea what freedom is really about and why protections are in place to guarantee mad-minds don't gradually chip away at its foundations to the point where suddenly the corrupted government has its own goons coming for those last remnants of freedom believers in the middle of the night.

"Here in the USA we...."
Repeatedly you keep making this a national issue as if foreigners miss some well-guarded point only US neo-cons are privvy to.
So while you think Canadians may be offended by the un-logic you use, I myself feel some pity that you don't see how you weaken your arguments resorting to that 'crutch' to lean on as if it has some credence. Sorry- but it impresses me not at all.
You need to study Canadian headlines too to understand we indeed are in harm's way of terrorists-somehow you gloss over the thwarted Toronto attack I mentioned in detail to you not too long ago.
And repeatedly I remind you 70% of Americans disagree with Bush's anti-terrorist policies. Many Americans disagree with this big-brother policy so please wise up and understand this spin you like to put on these policies as one condoned by the majority of Americans falls on its face. Point in case is fellow Americans differing from your opinions in this very thread!

Your Congress and senators, and watchdog groups are in place to make sure lunatics don't undermine freedom's credibility as seen by the rest of the world. If the USA can't be seen as the cornerstone of upholding freedom in the world then you'll see the valued alliances shy away- and here's another history lesson for you- Pearl Harbour happened because the USA's isolationist fevour prior to Dec 41-though valid- proved being alone with a maverick attitude to neighbours is a dangerous self-destructing policy.

You say 9-11 is comparble to Pearl Harbour- do you know your history- Bin Laden and his goons were waging war with the West long before sep.11th - thus it was no declaration of a war. How many years before were the same buildings bombed?

You learn well from Bush and cronies, Mr.Rocket in conjuring up hypothetical disasters as a pretext for taking pre-emptive drastic actions where none is needed. Your examples are pure speculations... your intent is fear-mongering- your desire is to get everyone besides yourself to run around like headless chickens ; perhaps just to console yourself that you are incapable of being sound of mind like the majority.

If you want to really understand how governments reap terror on its citizens by acting out secretive covert activities then start studying dictatorships and how their goons operate and how the rest of societies foundations are brought in line to support them.. ie, the media and communications.

And the thing about judge saying 'get lost'.... wow- If a judge lives in the city where some worthwhile proof shows a bomb will vapourise him and all its citizens - do you honestly he's going to utter those words.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 12/18/07 9:49pm