wondering everyones thoughts on this Options

[UNDEAD 1]

im split on this one,something tells me our gov will take advantage of this down the road.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071218/pl_nm/...u9leqt1OD0E1vAI

[Midnight Rambler]

Can't argue against your fantasies Capt.

[Genocide Junkie]

Can't argue against your fantasies Capt.

It's statements like this that make me wonder what planet the left is living on.....really hoping I'm misunderstanding....

But guessing not after reading this from Hellfighter:

"You learn well from Bush and cronies, Mr.Rocket in conjuring up hypothetical disasters as a pretext for taking pre-emptive drastic actions where none is needed. Your examples are pure speculations... your intent is fear-mongering- your desire is to get everyone besides yourself to run around like headless chickens ; perhaps just to console yourself that you are incapable of being sound of mind like the majority."

If you think it's pure fear mongering that there can and will be an attack on the US I think you are the one that is incapable of sound mind. Those towel heads didn't come over here and bake us cookies. And our ports and entries to this country are laughably controled. It's not a matter of if but when one of these catastrophic events takes place. So maybe its not a nuke. Maybe they just blow up the Rose Bowl with 85,000 people in it. Or some wonderful biological agent released in downtown NY. When it does you and your cronies will be the first one's moaning about how Bush was asleep at the wheel and he should have been personally monitoring the mail, phone calls, and diary entries of Osama, Muhammad, Akbar, and all their slurpee selling friends. I'm sick of hearing everyone whine about their "freedom". Fact is we haven't been attacked since 911. And like it or not we ARE AT WAR. We forget that we might have to sacrifice a bit durring times of conflict. So if they have to listen to Mike Moore's, The Pope's, and yes even your phone calls to prevent even one person from dying then damn right they should do it. Waterboard the whole lot of them daily if it saves lives. I guess that makes me a neo con, ditto headed, second class, no brain having, thoughtless, peabrain but I'm going to sleep well tonight knowing that we're trying to stop these bastards from killing people here and around the world. I haven't forgoten that on the planet I live on two buildings that employed 10's of thousands of people were hit by two planes, another hit the pentagon, and yet another crashed in a field in PA. All piloted by a network of nut jobs not from this country. It was not hypothetical and we are not going to keep it from happening again by talking about our feelings, closing our eyes, or negotiating with these people. Action and diligence is going to keep it from happening and is why we are still without another attack today. Poo Poo the methods all you want but they have been effective and I hope they keep doing all they have to do to keep producing the results they have since that day.

[Hellfighter]

Can't argue against your fantasies Capt.

It's statements like this that make me wonder what planet the left is living on.....really hoping I'm misunderstanding....

But guessing not after reading this from Hellfighter:

"You learn well from Bush and cronies, Mr.Rocket in conjuring up hypothetical disasters as a pretext for taking pre-emptive drastic actions where none is needed. Your examples are pure speculations... your intent is fear-mongering- your desire is to get everyone besides yourself to run around like headless chickens ; perhaps just to console yourself that you are incapable of being sound of mind like the majority."

If you think it's pure fear mongering that there can and will be an attack on the US I think you are the one that is incapable of sound mind. Those towel heads didn't come over here and bake us cookies. And our ports and entries to this country are laughably controled. It's not a matter of if but when one of these catastrophic events takes place. So maybe its not a nuke. Maybe they just blow up the Rose Bowl with 85,000 people in it. Or some wonderful biological agent released in downtown NY. When it does you and your cronies will be the first one's moaning about how Bush was asleep at the wheel and he should have been personally monitoring the mail, phone calls, and diary entries of Osama, Muhammad, Akbar, and all their slurpee selling friends. I'm sick of hearing everyone whine about their "freedom". Fact is we haven't been attacked since 911. And like it or not we ARE AT WAR. We forget that we might have to sacrifice a bit durring times of conflict. So if they have to listen to Mike Moore's, The Pope's, and yes even your phone calls to prevent even one person from dying then damn right they should do it. Waterboard the whole lot of them daily if it saves lives. I guess that makes me a neo con, ditto headed, second class, no brain having, thoughtless, peabrain but I'm going to sleep well tonight knowing that we're trying to stop these bastards from killing people here and around the world. I haven't forgoten that on the planet I live on two buildings that employed 10's of thousands of people were hit by two planes, another hit the pentagon, and yet another crashed in a field in PA. All piloted by a network of nut jobs not from this country. It was not hypothetical and we are not going to keep it from happening again by talking about our feelings, closing our eyes, or negotiating with these people. Action and diligence is going to keep it from happening and is why we are still without another attack today. Poo Poo the methods all you want but they have been effective and I hope they keep doing all they have to do to keep producing the results they have since that day.

When Bush and 'cronies' received reports well before 9-11 about 'Bin Laden planning to fly planes into buildings' and implemented no heghtened security proposals or protocols its not hard to argue he was asleep at the wheel.

Freedom is our system that is the reason why many people all over the world dream about having and desire to live here.... and one of the best things is that we can whine and debate and muddle through a solution more or less agreeable to everyone. I'm not sick of it at all. Where there's no 'freedom' you know changes only happen after bloody revolutions or by the influential pressure of 'whining' freedom nations.
Give me whining-Give me liberty

Why hasn't an attack happened since 9-11-ever thought maybe they only wish to consider doing only outrageous attacks - they have ample opportunity to carry out small attacks- that shoe bomber Reid could've set off his bomb in the airport lobby instead of attempting it in flight.

I'm sorry but its not left versus right.... many Republicans are worried by Bush's antics and are clearly voicing their opposition. For the record the only Dem I like running at the moment is Biden -then I'd go repub for Ron Paul-> if possible I'd rather see George Bush Senior or Bill Clinton back... maybe some current candidates on either side can rise to the occasion of being a solid Prez, but I'm not impressed.
If you believe ends justify the means then why not nuke the entire Middle East [and if you say yes I'll give my opinion why not]. Fear mongering means just that -acting upon speculation. No-one is arguing people won't take drastic action/use torture as a last means given a situation that can save lives - well just say 'it's torture' don't dance around the issue and say certain techniques aren't -that's where the hypocracy comes in.

What were they effective in doing? Give examples.... how can you know what precisely was effective and what information was given if the entire procedure is secret and not publicized. I ask you again->
What was effective? Give dates and who 'it' was effective against and what was effective. Other than that waterboard report used several years ago which 'reportedly' got what information we know not, name what's been effective please to back up your statement.

Consider the original point of UD's enquiry - people against the big brother plan understand UDs point directly-its not about not permitted to listen in on phone conversations of the bad guys-> Down the road -the government could have any capability to listen to what anyone is saying at anytime on private phones-without warrants and with private phone companies immune to accountability- the 'don't worry if you have nothing to hide' argument is invalid- would these arguers not mind if their conversations were put online and on the tv, in newspapers? The opposition is about Bush's desire to do things [ action and diligence] without a warrant -underhandedly and without accoutability -bypassing the expectation's of society's belief they are above those similar 'methods' used by dictators, tyrants, and thugs in power.
The argument is not about not having the ability to listen to phone calls.
You can call it poo-pooing, but I say it's a step into a dark tunnel- it's not a left vs. right issue. Many of your fellow Americans and politicians on the right and left feel the same way - so it's really a delusion to create the impression it's an 'all americans are for this' like Mr.Rocket likes to do.

Then where do you stop torturing without accountability-> suspects [not proven guilty but those in power believe the person guilty or not has no rights] -it could be one of your relatives picked up to undergo the process. Not all terrorists are foreign - McVeigh... then we have serial killers and gang-drug lords currently our worst terrorists. I'd like them all summarily executed but they need to be put through a process to establish they are guilty first. Once you yield too much power to untrustworthy politicians playing around behind the scenes then its only a matter of time before everyone suffers.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 12/19/07 7:27am