Royal Airforce Uniform Ban, What the hell were they thinking? Options

[Robert]

"ROYAL Air Force (RAF) personnel at an air base in England have been ordered not to wear their uniforms in public following a spate of threats and abuse from civilians."
"The ban was reportedly imposed after a seven-month review of incidents involving personnel who lived in the city and had been abused in the streets while wearing their uniforms when they were off-duty. "

linkage
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23337078-23109,00.html

I thought things were bad here....
The people who's job it is to protect and defend the freedoms of brit's
now don't have the freedom to wear their uniform in public.

[PFC Mustangman]

This soldier bashing is something new as far as I know.I can't find anything about this happening before the 1968 and 69 Tet Offensives in the Vietnam war.Even in the Civil War when Gen. Sherman made his "March to the Sea" did not bring outcries from the Northern people.But the Vietnam war was different.The Political speeches from the Whitehouse on down was saying "We are going to stop Communism in Southeast Asia".Even though they didn't want to stop it in Cuba,which by right we should have by enforcing the" Monroe Doctrine"or by confronting The USSR or China.After WW2 the U.S. soon had" lets just go half way then seek an agreement".We had the North Koreans and China on the run and Gen MacArthur was ready to go all the way to China but Pres.Truman said no and then fired Gen. MacArthur.So back to the subject of soilder bashing.Vietnam War was unpopular for two reasons that I come up with.It was a war that could not be won Because as in all wars after WW2 we fought enemies who wear no uniforms.Also the Draft became very and I mean very unpopular.The Military Industrial Complex cannot make money without wars and they must be prolonged wars,so that makes it a no clear victory in any campaign.In the latter years of the Vietnam War soldiers were humillated in airports leaving or coming home from Vietnam.They were cussed, spit on and treated ungratefully.Some of this was because of the Mylai Massacre.To learn about this read the book LieutenantCalley "His own story"as told to John Sack.You will also learn what it is to fight an army of no uniforms.Just like the war we are in now is another no win.The difference between the Vietnam War and This Terriorist War is that we were attacked on our soil on 9/11/01.You can say what you want but these wars that are being run by the neo-cons since 1965 do nothing but kill innocent people wheather they be civilian or military.Also the Neo-Cons learned a lesson in the Vietnam War and that is don"t wage a war on Television that shows dead American soldiers and have control of the media.They just didn't know how important the internet was going to effect them but now they know, so look out internet.In this War on Terror I can see how the Morals of the United States has sunk so low that nobody has respect for anything.The Abu Ghraib ordeal is just more degradation of humanilty.For my Goverment to go this low is unAmerican and this Congress and President should be held accountable from 2001 till they are tried for their lies and treason.I could go on and on about unprotected borders,allowing muslims from other countries get citizenship to our Nation who we know that they want to destroy our freedoms,as also this present President and Congress.We will cotinue to live our lives as best we can until as in Nazi Germany they come for you and me.This election cycle could spell the end to the U.S.A. as we know it.

[Hellfighter]

...........We had the North Koreans and China on the run and Gen MacArthur was ready to go all the way to China but Pres.Truman said no and then fired Gen. MacArthur.So back to the subject of soilder bashing.Vietnam War was unpopular for two reasons that I come up with.It was a war that could not be won Because as in all wars after WW2 we fought enemies who wear no uniforms.Also the Draft became very and I mean very unpopular.The Military Industrial Complex cannot make money without wars and they must be prolonged wars,so that makes it a no clear victory in any campaign.In the latter years of the Vietnam War soldiers were humillated in airports leaving or coming home from Vietnam.They were cussed, spit on and treated ungratefully.Some of this was because of the Mylai Massacre.To learn about this read the book LieutenantCalley "His own story"as told to John Sack.You will also learn what it is to fight an army of no uniforms................

Actually the MacArthur episode was a good reminder to let Generals know they have a particular role they are playing in a democratic nation. He was basically acting like a Caesar. He was indeed pulling off a brilliant rollback of the commies, but he overstepped his authority and deliberately pushed on to areas where he was instructed not to venture- then couple that with his public comments about wanting to use nukes -and thereby increase the risk of WW3/nuke war- was definitely too much angst caused by his Rambo-attitude. Generals are accountable -particularly if politicians back home maybe working behind the scenes to negotiate treaties and ceasefires.

That Mylai incident was indeed atrocious - I saw a tv documentary that interviewed many soldiers involved - they were mentally wrecked -they were formally normal civilians thrown into an unorthodox war-grinding machine-where attaining kill-ratios were the Generals keywords of the day- and then messed up further by getting into drugs to alleviate the tensions of war from unseen quarters. Of course the Captain who ordered the 'episode' got let off. The biggest difficulty in that war was the poor training of American troops regarding insurgency/guerilla units like the VC. Unlike the current Iraqi war theater where the soldiers for the overwhelming most part engage in 'hearts and minds' policy to be very sensitive to not causing civilian casualties/reasons to hate coalition forces as occupiers, the fight versus the VC was unlike anything they'd been prepared for and many instances of needless civilian deaths/murders occurred -there were even VC hookers killing GIs in bases.

Alot of the public hostility during the war was because of many things too including bombing civilian cities, helicopters straffing rural 'suspect' villages. As opposed to WW2 when high civilian deaths due to Allied bombing at the time was considered a 'fair' tit-for-tat policy, the strategic bombing was considered a one-sided overkill even if done to bring N.Vietnam to negotiate a peace.

Unfortunately brutalities to civilians by soldiers occupying foreign territory brought on by guerilla-non uniformed combatants has occurred throughout history by all sides to varying degrees.

My opinion revolves around disgust for the divisive people anywhere who ignorantly are targeting well-meaning people based on a group they are identifiable as belonging to whether by race, religion, type of uniform of authority worn etc., and acting out their feeble issues through peanut-brain sized logic.

Some soldiers are liberals too Shred [and this issue is not just an American thing -it happens all throughout NATO I believe]; neocons love to play on the idea that soldiers are at war with liberals and the enemy - the soldiers are in fact obeying their commander-in-chiefs orders, they aren't an 'arm' of the republicans. Liberal families have relatives serving in the Forces too. It's a big mistake to not distinguish liberals from ungrateful 'citizens'. And in some instances there've been right wingers being very loathesome to the military. Have you heard about a fanatic religious 'christian' faction that protests at funerals of dead soldiers! Read-on......
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/17/us/17pic...amp;oref=slogin
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/14471067.html

Its amazing there has been no reported incidences of a bulldozer rolling through these 'protestors'

I won't show articles with photos related to this same incident, but cowardly weasels are all over the place.
Up here too;
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...196&k=64397

I remember this, it near where I grew up. For a small town they are very violent.

From what I know/heard, some Canuck rural towns notoriously get very 'rowdy' on weekends. Thunder Bay is/was one...


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/13/08 7:26am

[Canadian Viper]

...........We had the North Koreans and China on the run and Gen MacArthur was ready to go all the way to China but Pres.Truman said no and then fired Gen. MacArthur.So back to the subject of soilder bashing.Vietnam War was unpopular for two reasons that I come up with.It was a war that could not be won Because as in all wars after WW2 we fought enemies who wear no uniforms.Also the Draft became very and I mean very unpopular.The Military Industrial Complex cannot make money without wars and they must be prolonged wars,so that makes it a no clear victory in any campaign.In the latter years of the Vietnam War soldiers were humillated in airports leaving or coming home from Vietnam.They were cussed, spit on and treated ungratefully.Some of this was because of the Mylai Massacre.To learn about this read the book LieutenantCalley "His own story"as told to John Sack.You will also learn what it is to fight an army of no uniforms................

Actually the MacArthur episode was a good reminder to let Generals know they have a particular role they are playing in a democratic nation. He was basically acting like a Caesar. He was indeed pulling off a brilliant rollback of the commies, but he overstepped his authority and deliberately pushed on to areas where he was instructed not to venture- then couple that with his public comments about wanting to use nukes -and thereby increase the risk of WW3/nuke war- was definitely too much angst caused by his Rambo-attitude. Generals are accountable -particularly if politicians back home maybe working behind the scenes to negotiate treaties and ceasefires.

That Mylai incident was indeed atrocious - I saw a tv documentary that interviewed many soldiers involved - they were mentally wrecked -they were formally normal civilians thrown into an unorthodox war-grinding machine-where attaining kill-ratios were the Generals keywords of the day- and then messed up further by getting into drugs to alleviate the tensions of war from unseen quarters. Of course the Captain who ordered the 'episode' got let off. The biggest difficulty in that war was the poor training of American troops regarding insurgency/guerilla units like the VC. Unlike the current Iraqi war theater where the soldiers for the overwhelming most part engage in 'hearts and minds' policy to be very sensitive to not causing civilian casualties/reasons to hate coalition forces as occupiers, the fight versus the VC was unlike anything they'd been prepared for and many instances of needless civilian deaths/murders occurred -there were even VC hookers killing GIs in bases.

Alot of the public hostility during the war was because of many things too including bombing civilian cities, helicopters straffing rural 'suspect' villages. As opposed to WW2 when high civilian deaths due to Allied bombing at the time was considered a 'fair' tit-for-tat policy, the strategic bombing was considered a one-sided overkill even if done to bring N.Vietnam to negotiate a peace.

Unfortunately brutalities to civilians by soldiers occupying foreign territory brought on by guerilla-non uniformed combatants has occurred throughout history by all sides to varying degrees.

My opinion revolves around disgust for the divisive people anywhere who ignorantly are targeting well-meaning people based on a group they are identifiable as belonging to whether by race, religion, type of uniform of authority worn etc., and acting out their feeble issues through peanut-brain sized logic.

Some soldiers are liberals too Shred [and this issue is not just an American thing -it happens all throughout NATO I believe]; neocons love to play on the idea that soldiers are at war with liberals and the enemy - the soldiers are in fact obeying their commander-in-chiefs orders, they aren't an 'arm' of the republicans. Liberal families have relatives serving in the Forces too. It's a big mistake to not distinguish liberals from ungrateful 'citizens'. And in some instances there've been right wingers being very loathesome to the military. Have you heard about a fanatic religious 'christian' faction that protests at funerals of dead soldiers! Read-on......
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/17/us/17pic...amp;oref=slogin
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/14471067.html

Its amazing there has been no reported incidences of a bulldozer rolling through these 'protestors'

I won't show articles with photos related to this same incident, but cowardly weasels are all over the place.
Up here too;
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...196&k=64397

I remember this, it near where I grew up. For a small town they are very violent.

From what I know/heard, some Canuck rural towns notoriously get very 'rowdy' on weekends. Thunder Bay is/was one...

o my I have lived there too. to find work over the last few years I've live in different areas of ontario.

[Hellfighter]

o my I have lived there too. to find work over the last few years I've live in different areas of ontario.

Canucks I know who 'get around' alot like that usually have some very interesting tales to tell
Have some unique/bizarre stuff to tell us?