Climate change hits Mars!!, What? No humans on mars! How can this be? Options

[Cpt. Snot Rocket]

What is the coincidence that both Mars and the earth are showing an increase in surface temperature at the same time? Maybe it has something to do with nature, or solar waves from the sun? Maybe more research is needed here afterall?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece



Or maybe there is a Martian invasion fleet taking off for earth right now!

[Blitz]

Good links HammaTime,
I was searching for something else and it lead me to that link, I watched it but did no research it further in my rush.... I agree that the person sounds chicken shit to me to stand by his beliefs and not admit to being wrong.

The isteresting thing about this is it is a live debate, there are scientists on both sides throwing facts all about. I do not like hearing that all debate is closed which I am starting to hear more and more.

Some are bought and paid for on both sides. What concerns me is the LACK of honest debate in the media in genearal about this issue. Both sides are left scurring to the interet to find facts and opinions presented by both sides and the truth about what will happen is conjecture and hypothetical guess.
It will never be known until it has happened.

Al Gore is investing 300 million (from who???) to make global warming a topic on the presidential debates, has testified before congress, and is pushing this issue. He had 8 years to make this a top priority, but now it is the utmost crisis?

The thing that scares me most is the cap and trade (carbon credit) tax concepts that will be the outcome without honest debate.
Watch the John Kerry / Newt Gingrich debate.. There are solutions rather than HUGE government / UN control. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7844874520095835803

The point of the thread re-start and the link to the book was that the author suggested that he had unbiased, experts in their fields that were against conclusive evidence about man made global warming. As I said originally I had not read it, but the amazon thread lists about 15 scientists that are discussed in the book and their backgrounds.
From the interview the author stated that he is a staunch environmentalist and activist. He mentioned that he believed fully the man made global warming theory and set out to prove that there were no credable scientists that were against it. his research shocked him and he wrote the book to help re-open the debate.

From the "man made" deniers point of view if there are credable scientists that have alternative hypothises and show errors in the original data that everyone trumpets as fact then the debate should still be open.

I found this old link about some deniers and their background, maybe they all have been proven as lapdogs for big oil, or maybe they just look at the science from their own perspective and not a foregone conclusion and look for the science to justify their pre-concieved notions.
It's a 10 part series
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=...0bed2f6&k=0

Lastly HammaTime , this has been a great topic and you have brought a lot of data to be sifted thru and I wish this is what I would see in my nightly news and in the paper rather than another topic on ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1998570/posts
Or Ted Turner going NUTZ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LZuC1xLHXRc&feature=related

[HammaTime]

I've really enjoyed all the posts involving global warming, and I certainly agree that we all should cast a critical eye whenever someone claims to have "all the facts."

Unfortunately, the science behind such a complex issue as climate change is really more than us laypersons can truly grasp. We are left at the mercy of folks who seek to exploit our lack of sophisticated understanding so that they might make a buck. And, obviously, this happens on all sides of an issue.

My biggest concern is that it is getting harder and harder to know if the information we are being handed has been prepared honestly. Dig a little deeper into the background of those providing the info and it all too often becomes apparent that they have an ax to grind, or someone is paying them a lot of money in support of their position. That isn't science, it is advocacy.

Just tonight the AP is reporting that a glacier lake in Chili suddenly emptied. The water bore through five miles of glaciated ice. This is exactly what scientists have discovered is happening in Greenland.

A recent book I read that proved to be interesting was "Six Degrees" by Mark Lynas.

http://www.amazon.com/Six-Degrees-Future-H...t/dp/142620213X

He did some exhaustive research into the published scientific papers that have been written on climate issues. He starts with predictions of what our planet will be like with 1 degree change, the next chapter he writes about 2 degree change and on until six degrees. I quickly read through the first two chapters, but found myself putting the book down once he reached 3 degrees. I started having a hard time absorbing the reality of such extensive change. Hell, the one degree change was really more than I wanted to stomach.

Keep in mind that six degrees of cooling had most of North America covered with over a mile of ice, so six degrees of heating represents a monumental change in the opposite direction.

As I read the book, I kept thinking about the Defense Department's report on climate change, "An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United States National Security" and their implication that the military wouldn't be able to protect America after just a couple of degrees of warming. You may not have heard about the report because the government allegedly tried to keep it under wraps and the media seemed relatively disinterested in it. The London Observer first reported the findings:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2004...ews.theobserver

One of the best articles on the report was done by Fortune magazine, with the cooperation of the DoD:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/for...60120/index.htm

You can read the entire report by downloading the PDF here:

http://www.gbn.com/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=26231

Obviously, the report was based on some questionable data, but the bottom line is that it doesn't take much change to completely alter the social fabric of our world.

To keep this related to the gaming world a bit, a game I've really enjoyed is "Frontlines: Fuel of War" which takes place in this dark future where new alliances have been formed as the world struggles with the lack of oil.

The DoD isn't sitting around on their hands worrying if carbon levels rightly proceeded temperature levels. They looked at a few basic facts and determined that a dark scenario may be playing out here. They undoubtedly are making intensive preparations for the defense of our country.

Come to think of it, if I was Al Gore, I'm not sure I'd want to be wasting my time debating with the very few folks left who still feel this isn't something for which we need to be preparing. If I had his resources, I'd be out pressing for people to stand up and start working to protect our country and our planet.

This post has been edited by HammaTime: 04/10/08 10:49pm