Climate change hits Mars!!, What? No humans on mars! How can this be? Options

[Cpt. Snot Rocket]

What is the coincidence that both Mars and the earth are showing an increase in surface temperature at the same time? Maybe it has something to do with nature, or solar waves from the sun? Maybe more research is needed here afterall?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece



Or maybe there is a Martian invasion fleet taking off for earth right now!

[Blitz]

I don't believe that a scientistwould gin up their results either. just only in certain areas or for a certain hypothisis

My only tought is that if the ICPP's main goal and mission is to prove man-made global warming, and started researching to that end then it has an axe to grind. They started with the answer and set out to find data that proved their point, subjective data that could go either way would be ignored.

They stared the ball rolling most likely in the 80's with the 1990 ipcc study.

There are huge ties with this movement to the environment, no-oil save the trees, grenpeace crowd. They are deeply tied with academia as well.

There is also huge monitary rewards /political in passing legeslation in the form of carbon credits and carbon taxes.

Lastly, as you mentined in your article, with China and other develoing countries coming on whatever we do wih cap and trade, or carbon credits will be worthless other than wealth transfer.
If we are not planning on Free Maket inventiveness, prizes, and other incentives to create the new low emission technologies that are cheaper for China to implement than high carbon output options it will make no difference globally, other than to wreck economys.

It has to be a solution of techmology driven / alt power / nuclear / Etc that lowers CO2
Not the only eat meat once a month, no oil, wear wooden shoes crowd. Restrictions on a global scale will never work.

Nice reply Hamma.... Need Coffee Will post later

I don't believe that a scientistwould gin up their results either. just only look in certain areas or for a certain hypothisis

Man one word made a diff there.
Robert, am I an idiot, I can't figure out how to edit?

[HammaTime]

My only tought is that if the ICPP's main goal and mission is to prove man-made global warming, and started researching to that end then it has an axe to grind. They started with the answer and set out to find data that proved their point, subjective data that could go either way would be ignored.

Here is the IPCC's mandate:

The IPCC was established to provide the decision-makers and others interested in climate change with an objective source of information about climate change. The IPCC does not conduct any research nor does it monitor climate related data or parameters. Its role is to assess on a comprehensive, objective, open and transparent basis the latest scientific, technical and socio-economic literature produced worldwide relevant to the understanding of the risk of human-induced climate change, its observed and projected impacts and options for adaptation and mitigation. IPCC reports should be neutral with respect to policy, although they need to deal objectively with policy relevant scientific, technical and socio economic factors. They should be of high scientific and technical standards, and aim to reflect a range of views, expertise and wide geographical coverage.

Couple of key points - they don't do the research, their mandate stresses objectivity.

I've had the opportunity to meet the co-lead scientist for the NECIA (sorry, more gobbledygook, this is the New England Climate Impacts Assessment). This was a group of a hundred or so scientists who felt their research was showing such significant change, they couldn't wait for the typical peer-review process. They wanted to get their results in the hands of the policy makers as fast as possible. This was a highly unusual step for a group of scientists, in fact, I can think of no prior example when scientists have taken such a bold step.

Blitz, I know that if you had the opportunity to sit down and listen to these folks talk about their research, you would change your mind about the quality of their work. They are passionately committed to the truth of science. When they speak, you don't hear a bias, you hear a seriousness of purpose, you hear an honest approach to learning precisely what is happening on our planet. These are not modern-day Cassandras, they can not predict the future, they can only report what their research indicates.

As for your claim that there are "huge ties with this movement to the environment," I would agree. Most climate scientists were drawn to their profession because they had a natural love of the outdoors. Are they really any different from someone who loves to hunt and fish and spends as much time outside as possible. In reality, they are not any different. I know a limnologist (they study lakes and ponds) who got into his profession because he wanted a job where he could fish whenever he wanted. A couple of biologists I photographed spent a part of their day seining for fish to measure mercury content, but they had their fly rods tucked on board so they could do some catch and release on their own.

Obviously, climatologists are "deeply tied to academia," as these problems far exceed what a lay-person is capable of discovering. You could probably head to Greenland and operate the ice core drilling equipment, but what the hell would you do with the ice core once you extracted the ice? I sure wouldn't know what to do. I wouldn't know how to measure the hydrogen and oxygen isotopes to determine the temperature when the ice became ice, would you? You kind of have to go to school to learn that stuff.

My point is, scientists are really just like you and me, although I will admit they can sometimes be quite a bit geekier and some tend to mutter a lot! Sure, in any group of people, you will find those that have ulterior motives and those that don't always toe the ethical line, but I'm convinced that the vast majority are interested in only one thing, the truth.

This post has been edited by HammaTime: 10/03/08 8:56am