Debate - Round 2 Options

[Robert]

I can tell you 5 minute in an they have both already pissed my off.
Both spouting facts which were proven wrong after the 1st debate, an they still repeat them because they know most people won't know they are wrong.
Obama - tax cut for 95% is a lie
McCain - $700 billion sent outside the US for oil is a lie

I swear to god I'm seeing red right now





Fantastic question from the audience.
How can we trust either one of you when it was both parties which got us in the mess.
Obama ignored the question an blamed bush.
McCain did a little better but it was a perfect question for him.






so far obama has repeated 2 lies from the 1st debate
McCain has repeated 1





One issue Obama brought up which I do agree with is civil service.
The whole idea is contrary to my base conservative beliefs but I would completely support some form of near compulsory civil service.




McCain just caught up to Obama by repeating his 2 lie from the 1st debate.
But Obama retakes the lead by repeating the 95% tax lie for the 2nd time just in this debate.




Brokaw gets a cookie for holding both accountable to their time limits.




I did get a little laugh from McCain saying "I'll answer the question" in reference to Obama going off on a different subject.
I'm getting sick of McCain an his broken record "my friends"





Does this debate just suck more than normal. There is to little direct answers to the questions from either of them.






Both have again repeated more lies from the last debate. They do this because they think most people won't know the difference, what's really sad is they are right.

[Hellfighter]

Obviously they were both playing politics for the most part very indecisively and just trading blows -> Obama edged out clearly in my view with sounding more in command in his attacks, counter attacks, and in moving around the floor with vigour/authority.I'm not saying he wasn't blah-blah-ing, but he sounded/acted more less so than McCain imo.
Judging by post debate polling of viewers at the debate and in others, Obama overwhelmingly took in more independants while McCain lost some support from Republicans with his wishy-washy economy proposals.

For me though, McCain took a bloody beating and was in stunned-mode in the Afghanistan /Middle east wars segment.
Obama pummeled him very badly;

1., McCain stuck to his 'idea' the Surge would work in Afghanistan when in fact those tactics have been used there for the longest time already. He clearly hasn't been reading newspapers [like Palin] about it or any intel regarding operations there. The Afghan tribes are not divided into huge religious blocks like the Sunnis in Anbar,Iraq. Instead they are fragmented by allegiance and physical eremote distances -this is why the Taliban have an easy time screwing up the 'hearts and minds' model the Coalition strives to succeed with there. The remoteness of weak tribes -just like in real social life- prevent the weak from banding together to confront the larger bully - which the Sunnis could do in Anbar with their Awakening Councils. Also, unlike in Iraq, the US airforce have been destabilizing the situation to an extent by using very bad intel to launch air strikes on suspected terroriats - as a result very large numbers of civilians have been killed. Palin said it was a lie and McCain put out an attack ad calling the Dems raising that issue as dishonourable. Indeed at a rally yesterday in which Palin raised the issue she had incited some in her crowd to yell 'treachory' and 'kill him'! She of course kept smilimg and continued -> did I mention a while back she has a neocon streak in her?

2. Obama was correct in his call for more troops needed in Afghanistan - the Brit official opinion is to have less troops and set up a mini-dictatorship of sorts.... scrap domocracy. Bad idea imo. Extra troops should flood the borders with Pakistan and starve Talibans of support from there.

3. McCain referred to the Soviet invasion being repelled by Afghan freedom fighters. Again he shows he is in la-la land.
Soviets were beaten by Afghan rebels with the crucial support of Pakistan intelligence and the CIA funding and supplying arms to the rebels.
McCain conveniently leaves out the fact that the freedom fighters were in large part -> the Taliban, AND Bin Laden!!!
He goes on lying in saying the Taliban suddenly appeared and took over Afghanistan -when in fact the CIA wanted to see them in power with other Afghan tribes as a coalition governing Afghanistan. But Bin Laden paid off the Taliban to go it alone and rule Afghanistan as a tyranny. There's some evidence that the popular and brilliant Afghan Northern Alliance leader -Massoud -> commanding a small hold out of forces against the Taliban was assasinated just days before 9/11 with the help of Pakistan Intelligence -I remember seeing somewhere Massoud had some info that a huge attack by al quaeda was heading USAs way.
so let's be clear, McCain is skewering facts he should know as a commander-in-chief.

4.McCain was apparently busted open when the question was presented about what to do if Bin Laden was found to be in Pakistan, and the Pakistan govt. did nothing.

I'm surprised no one else caught that or think its important;
It's a situation which Bush has modelled most of his admin's initial success on; get Bin Laden -and its also an issue that could spark WW3.

McCain was caught out in the open stuck upto his knees in a bog. His policy is to not let Pakistan know the USA would [as Palin said] do everything necessary to get Bin Laden. However, the americans WANT to know what this very crucial reaction would be by both candidates. Obama clearly stated he would act to get Bin Laden. McCain replied with babbling with a nervous snicker that he thought it better to hold a big stick while talking quietly unlike Obama announcing without hesistation what he'd do. McCain knew he looked weak by trying to be subtle. He went on to lie that Obama said he would invade Pakistan to get Bin Laden!!! Obama NEVER said that - its obvious he meant -as he's stated in the past- to use predator drone air strikes to kill bin laden -or I would think otherwise the use of covert agents or less likely, special ops.
This is where Obama TOOK a decisive victory on the issue - he bullied Brokaw into allowing him to follow up on McCain's weak counter and further reasserted himself as being definitive on his policy. McCain clearly struggled and was lost for words when he in turn almost begged Brokaw for his turn at a follow-up-and when he got it, he could only appear to be in desparation claiming how he 'knows how to win wars' repeatedly.
Obama was sitting across from him with a big victory grin on his face during that episode.

5. Obama then busted McCain's knees when he caught McCain in his 'talk small , carry big stick' policy. He mentioned McCain's not so subtle stances on "bomb.bomb.bomb Iran", "next stop Baghdad", and obliterate N.Korea. McCain was at a loss on how to reply.

The one area McCain should've crushed Obama ended up being his Waterloo. But apparently, the Afghanistan phase doesn't matter so much because this morning the focus is on the economy -rightly so, but still - mcCain took the bad hit on foreign policy- AGAIN.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 10/08/08 6:51am