Barbarossa tactics and strategy Options

[ScrapyardBob]

(because I can't sleep at the moment)

So let's talk about the odd, the crafty, the nifty, and the common sense of the Barbarossa map. Focusing primarily on "base assault" mode, although the map is also well suited for CTF. (Definitely a favorite map of a lot of folks.) Apologies in advance if I get long-winded and please try to keep it civil. There's a lot of opinion when folks talk about tactics and just about any idea works at least part of the time. If you don't like a tactic, please explain how you would beat that tactic rather then deriding the poster.

First off, my impressions of the bases.

Russian #1 (N flank)
- Moderately difficult to defend. German attack is usually through the W pass, but sometimes they come up the river valley to the south. Or, if Russian #3 has already fallen, germans can swipe tanks and attack along the back road. Germans also tend to slip into the house on the SW side where the anti-tank weapons are stored. The tank parked near #1 is a prime theft target.
- This base tends to be ignored by most allied players, making it more difficult to defend, but easier to attack.

Russian #2 (S flank, forward position)
- Moderately to extremely difficult to defend. The germans can attack this base from the S riverbed, through the town that is downslope, from the hilltop pass to the NW, or from the N flank. Tanks have to be rushed forward (on a constant basis) from the rear to protect this base.
- Strategically, only worth defending if you are behind on points. Same problems as German #1. Only inexperienced players attack this base first (or plant bombs here first). Smart players leave this base alone, forcing the enemy to spawn at a base without any nearby tanks.

Russian #3 (SE flank, rear position)
- Easiest to defend, unless everyone is playing offense and nobody is minding the store. Germans can sneak in through the houses or sneak in via the right flank into the russian spawn area.
- If the germans fail to destroy this base before the other 2 bases, the round typically ends up as a stalemate (or loss).

German #1 (S flank, forward position)
- Difficult to defend. The russians have multiple approaches to the base (south riverbed, the town bridge, down the hill from the hilltop pass, or up the valley from the N bridge).
- Strategically, only worth defending if you are behind on points. Same problems as Russian #2. Only inexperienced players attack this base first (or plant bombs here first). Smart players leave this base alone, forcing the enemy to spawn at a base without any nearby tanks.

German #2 (S flank, rear position)
- Moderately easy to defend, but only if actively guarded. Russians either sneak through the tank park, attack via the N road, or sneak up the S road.
- A lot of players ignore this base until it's too late. They won't start defending it until it's open and has been planted once. An early russian offensive on this base typically results in a win for the allies. Leaving this base for last usually results in a stalemate or loss.

German #3 (N flank)
- Moderately easy to defend. Attacks are typically from the N bridge, the hilltop pass to the SE, or russians sneaking up the back road or past the bush at the german anti-tank gun.
- This is a strategically important base for the germans. Guarding #3 also allows them to guard their N flank. Losing #3 typically results in germans forgetting to watch the N flank, allowing the russians to attack the german spawn.

[Hellfighter]

I hate me sometimes.
I just spent over an hour on a long indepth dialogue for this thread. Then in my usual scatter-brained way, I decided at the same time to make a nice signature pic for my profile. So off I go to profile page to see how to upload the pic. Then I decide to edit the pic-making a copy paste edit- after forgetting I just copied my Barbarossa piece, but not saving it. Poof-All gone. Poetic justice since alot of what I wrote was about the dim mindedness noobs have in the game. So mercifully to readers now, I'll do a much abbreviated version.

1.Use stealth
This great map has a trove of hideaways and ambush spots - Hide in cover when impossible odds approach, but then have patience to stay hidden until support arrives. Let the enemy move past you if they are unaware of you in their base. It's one less in defence you have to face when you are ready to move in.... not to mention that the SOB you kill in the back will be hunting you in your revealed location once respawned.
2.Think Alamo on Defence of last base
Regarding all German bases and Russian 3 in particular, using non-jeep friendly vehicles to block exits is great but, double up the solidity even more by placing similar vehicles right behind the blocking ones. Not only does it increase the time for attackers to get all the junk out of the way but it denies the smart-ass who figures out how to jump in a blocking friendly vehicle[as if to capture it to move it] from outside then exiting it into the base!
Beat the talented long-range artillery scuzbags who own base exits when their opponents attempt to defuse. One way is if you have time, drive a non-jeep vehicle into the line of artillery fire so that it takes the blasts and covers you/team rushing into defuse bomb. Methos 2 requires careful timing and moving in during the reload of artillery shots... maybe 2 seconds. Another way is to have someone club the artillery man's brains out with binoculars.
3.Team effort
Regarding Noobs; Explain nicely [as is possible under stressful combat situations]to noobs the full logic behind ....greatly increasing odds of victory going after enemy bases in the smart logical order/what bases not to plant at [for chrissakes!]/no-no-noooo don't drive that hidden captured enemy tank back to the enemy/ mofo-why did you shoot that enemy tank we pt in the minefield/why why oh why did you drive past our base when it needed defusing/wtf are you sitting in the tank for outside the base they just broke into and are planting at?!! /// OMG I hate this game!!!!!
Everyone on team needs to take turns on defence for a few minutes when things get hot.
Unless you are in the enemy area, a jeep can fly back to neutralise enemies planting bombs. The 'let someone else do it' syndrome is pathetic if you are in a jeep or on foot and otherwise unpreoccupied with self-preservation, and are in range to help defend -turn AROUND to defend is fair play.
4.Smoke Nades!!!! ...passing~~~~~
Smoke nades are great for distracting and getting you out of tough spots as you know. But as a strategic weapon these are greatly underused. In the fury of a final base assault. Everyone on attack should unload their smokenades as a barrage as soon as is possible to destabilise an effective enemy defence. If you are unnoticed, toss smoke nade in front of camping tanks, snipers, bunkers, machine gunners, and artillery- help out your team moving up behind you. When going insane under a spawnrape situation, toss smoke nades as soon as you respawn. Barbarossa is good spawn ownage territory.
5.Rain down the arty/ bad Camping Kraut tankers
Particularly at the start of round 2 of a battle, the Germans screw up by not having everyone with their artillery and tanks rush on masse to the Rusky base 2, and from that hilltop pummel away at Rusky 3 for one minute to blow it up almost that fast! Similarly, the Germans bust through on the left flank to reach the Rusky base 1 with a large armoured force - here, the noob tankers screw up bigtime. Instead of flying towards the Russian spawn and capturing tanks or even blasting base 3, they sit back pounding Rusky base 1- Respawning Soviets get in their tanks safely and effectively counter attack the once superior krauts at base 1.
6.Sniper roles Rules and ruling
A great map for sniper country, but the sniper has to be creative since the obvious spots are soon known by an enraged and vengeful enemy. Upgrading pistol skills prolongs your life. When you see trouble coming, don't hide- run fast and far away as possible. Barby map has great leap forward/back positions.
7.General Strategies
Fast insertion
Noobs need to pay attention to vets in game on this. Yesterday a new guy on the Russian team shrilled out "I thought base 3 was the hardest to take!" in a game where they lost in 8 minutes. Of course the vets know the only way possible to win this fast. 2 or 3 full jeeps slip by rusky capture any spawn tanks at their base 3 area, then split up after rusky 3 is down to finish off 1 and 2; all this providing any bolshevik defence there is quickly overcome.
Methodical Advance
The slower more tactical game requires heavy armour building up in a series of launch points gained in leapfrog style, each move ahead needs to be sure of neutralising enemy defences with long range tank/cannon fire, arty, snipers and if possible, a flood of smoke nades.
Banzai
Daring and craftiness are required for final base attacks versus German 2 or Russian 1 if they are well defended and the last to be attacked. Often success will rely on 1 or 2 teammates being the sacrificial rabbits to distract the main wrath of enemy fire while the mainforce of attackers makes a lightning attack in a big mass. The 'rabbits' should 1] use themselves in jeeps driven by enemy positions to swing away enemy attention very fast, 2] Throw smoke nades or satchels at camper tank positions/bases 3] Bring an accurate arty just before getting blown away [particularly at German 2.
Napoleon
Go after the enemies soul and not the soldiers... ie, spawn rampage- no, not spawn rape-there's a difference. Requires boldness and then smarts not to just stay there and camp rape, but to progress fast to the rear of the enemy bases for full exploitation, capture tanks and turn around any fixed enemy defence so that team mates in front can move forward lightly opposed at most.

So lets be patient with the noobs, not scolding them too abrasively, sometimes they just won't listen and will play the game as they desire anyway in spite of all pleas to follow a smarter course of action. Often a few noobs play in a way that slows the vets.who want a 7 minute victory and desperately want to avoid needless 35 minute stalemates. 2 other ways to not go nuts by seeing most of the team not appreciate the nice-ties of the Barbarossa map for smart play;
1] Switch sides -my fave lately [and blow up the winning base - heheee- woot woot!].
2] Ignore this fantasy- coerce the teammates you consider unworthy to get in your halftrack / truck [tell them nudie pics are inside the vehicles] then drive the whole lot into a minefield.... JUST JOKING!!!

ps.Can some1 tell me how to upload signature images? all I see is a browser dialogue box and not an option to upload from a home computer.






This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/12/06 6:41pm

[ScrapyardBob]

This great map has a trove of hideaways and ambush spots - Hide in cover when impossible odds approach, but then have patience to stay hidden until support arrives. Let the enemy move past you if they are unaware of you in their base. It's one less in defence you have to face when you are ready to move in.... not to mention that the SOB you kill in the back will be hunting you in your revealed location once respawned.

Agreed. If the enemy doesn't know you're there, you have surprise on your side. I've seen cases where a pair of hidden russian infantry destroyed multiple tanks as they rolled through a particular blind spot.

My defense against stealthy infiltrators is to stay alert and pass the information along to teammates. I'm sure the russians who play on my team when I'm babysitting #3 get tired of me saying "german in attic", "german in L side houses", "german sneaking around attic house". OTOH, I get a kick out of watching 2-3 russian infantry seek out and kill the intruder.

One other hint for smoke and stealth. If the enemy doesn't know you're there, you may be better off *not* using smoke. If I'm defending and I see smoke, I instantly go on alert and start looking for the source of the smoke. I'll probably even call my teammates and get them to start looking for the source. One enemy had even escaped me (I lost him, gave up) but as soon as he popped smoke I knew where he had gotten to and mowed him down.

Another way is to have someone club the artillery man's brains out with binoculars.

Nothing makes my skin crawl more then a stealthy opponent when I'm manning a stationary artillery piece. Almost all of the static guns have rather large blind spots and when you're aiming long-range you hate to move around because you'll spoil your aim. Snipers don't bother me as much. Of course, just be sure that you connect with that first swing of those binoculars.

If you setup camp next to a static artillery piece and defend them you'll usually end up with a grateful teammate.

A great map for sniper country, but the sniper has to be creative since the obvious spots are soon known by an enraged and vengeful enemy. Upgrading pistol skills prolongs your life. When you see trouble coming, don't hide- run fast and far away as possible. Barby map has great leap forward/back positions.

And a hint to all of the newbie snipers / infantry out there. Don't attempt to snipe or shoot at a tank with non-explosive rounds. The tank driver will merely thank you for pointing out a juicy target and will proceed to rain hellfire down on your position. I see this at least once per week where an enemy that I didn't know was there will start taking pot shots at my tank.

I've mostly given up on trying to explain why you shouldn't attack German #1 or Russian #2 first.


Next pictures... where to aim to attack German #3 from the rear-middle 45mm cannon on the Russian side of the map. The first image shows the treetop that you aim at to destroy the base. You do have some leeway. If you aim a bit down and to the left you can also destroy / kill the german pak at German #3. Useful when trying to soften up the area for a russian assault.



The second image shows where I was planting shells the other night to destroy bomb defusing crews at German #3. You'll see that it's just down and right of the treetop tip from the first image. (Apologies to my victim.)




And now the magic spot for the Russian #3 45mm. This spot allows you to kill whoever is on the middle german pak (which is often used to shell Russian #3). You can also aim left/right of this spot to hit the egress from the german back road as well as some of the ridge near the pak.



Shelling this point is a key tactic when the russians are attempting to plant German #1. First off, you take the pak out of commission so that it can't be used to devestate a left flank advance. Secondly, if you aim to the left a bit, you can hit germans as they stream out of the spawn on their way to reinforce German #1.

Anyone know how many hits it takes to destroy the german pak from full health? (I wish the stationary guns would stay dead for 3-5 minutes, making it more worthwhile to destroy them completely instead of just making them unattractive.)

Last image. This one is taken from the T34 that spawns at the back of the russian spawn area (behind Russian #3). This shows the approximate spot needed to shell German #2 (as long as you don't move the T34 from the starting position). On my resolution (1600x1200) there's a light-colored set of leaves that I aim just below with the crosshairs.




This post has been edited by ScrapyardBob: 01/12/06 6:54pm

[Hellfighter]

My defense against stealthy infiltrators is to stay alert and pass the information along to teammates. I'm sure the russians who play on my team when I'm babysitting #3 get tired of me saying "german in attic", "german in L side houses", "german sneaking around attic house". OTOH, I get a kick out of watching 2-3 russian infantry seek out and kill the intruder.

Come get me intruder hunters! Personally, I find it gets very exciting when I'm stuck in the building nearest Rusky 3, usually [secret spot] I rack up a heavy number of kills there typically 3 or 4 against the same enraged dude that came after me the 'wrong' fatal way before [hehee]. If I'm not able exit due to a known Rusky defence around 3, I wait for backup [and hopefully if I stay alive long enough, my next arty call] - things get tense when arty is running low, and then when 3 or 4 guys you've ambushed in that house all come after you at once - and your ammo is low .

I think we can refer to this as another strong strategy on the Barbarossa map. Leeching. Several spots offer a way to considerably draw in a significant number of enemy forces as a way to wait for back up or faciliate your team mates attack into that area. You need your wits to do it and it's a cat and mouse game.
Shoot tanks/jeeps in back point blank/toss satchels/dodge between rooms ceaselessly/stay in blind spots.
Don't use smoke; the idea is to let them come in to get you not knowing if you are alive. If you use smoke they'll simply just tank fire/nade or satchel the place until they know the tosser is dead.
The best areas where enemy will get clogged up in an attempt to clear out one mischievious holed up enemy are;
1] The house next to the bridge on the German left
2] The house by the hill above R1
3] The house closest to R3
4] The spawn house at G2

One other hint for smoke and stealth. If the enemy doesn't know you're there, you may be better off *not* using smoke. If I'm defending and I see smoke, I instantly go on alert and start looking for the source of the smoke. I'll probably even call my teammates and get them to start looking for the source. One enemy had even escaped me (I lost him, gave up) but as soon as he popped smoke I knew where he had gotten to and mowed him down.

That's what I often count on using smoke nades - particularly when it's man versus beast, ie- a tank defending a bunker or lurking about for your hidden presence. Want a way to swivel a tank's gun away from you as a distraction so that you have a very good chance of slipping by unnoticed, toss a smoke nade in the tank's view but 30 yds away from yourself [better at covering terrain to make it seem like you are there]. Don't throw it at the tank in such a situation he'll simply drive a bit out of it. Throw smoke nades at tanks when you want to get off a good snap-shot at it with a LATW [light anti tank weapon] or toss a satchel in its area - better to do this when tank is moving toward your hidden spot and you want it to hopefully stop onto the satchel.

And a hint to all of the newbie snipers / infantry out there. Don't attempt to snipe or shoot at a tank with non-explosive rounds.

.

Please nooby jeep MG riders pay attention to this advice!

Great sniper spots for Germans are at Rusky 2 hilltop overlooking the village in front of R3. And if R1 is last get a nice spot in the gully running across the map from which to shoot spawners exiting 1 - especially when they're on the roof.
Russian snipers inflict a good amount of casualties from the hill almost opposite the center German pak, but rather from behind the sandbags go to the right and more amidst the trees. Alternately set up close to the German pak's left and shoot krauts in the back.
Always shoot at long range, ignore sniping at targets close by.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/14/06 10:09pm