Slavery Reparations, your thoughts? Options

[Nothing]

Pez, I did not want to get into to the discussion deeply, thats why I made a short but to the point statement. Yes, all blacks should be very lucky to be part of our great nation. Im Italian and Irish. Both my sides of the family came to this country for a better living. I am grateful and so should they be grateful. If they are not, why not go back? If anything, the U.S. Government sould perhaps pay for a one way ticket to their homeland if they wish. It would be cheaper for society to pay for those tickets then to support them here.

Yes, the United States has a black eye for allowing slavery to happen. But we as a country fixed that and made every man regardless of color or creed equal. Anyone looking for money because of something that happened to their great grandparents or beyond is just looking for handouts. Go back where your grandparents came from if you dont like it here.

While we are on the topic. Does anyone here find it offensive that there is a United Negro College fund? If there were a United Caucasian College fund I am sure every black activist would be on it like white on rice. There are so many groups for Blacks it is not even funny. They are the ones segregating themselves from everyone else and no-one points it out as racist??

[pezking]

Well, as for myself, I was never a color-oriented person. So growing up, my best friend was black and others were from all over the world... asian, indian, middle eastern, etc. Now I never saw a huge issue with race till I met people in my adult life. I can see why blacks can be paranoid about certain issues and how they don't always have the best chances at life. At the same time, if they hear prodominent black leaders preaching that their lives aren't good because they aren't educated, it's almost like it would be easier to give up and just deal with their lives that way. Most of the people in the world aren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths. I few up outside of Washington DC which is a upper white collar area, but my family was low to middle income. I've had my fair amount of crap jobs and I had to work to get where I am.... still working to get more.

I can see why there is a Negro college fund, mostly because there are more black inner city children that are getting good grades that can't afford to go to college. I do think this is to help people out. I know there are alot of white kids that get good grades and can't afford to go to school too, that's where it gets shady.

What really pisses me off is the Emmy Awards. I think that's it.. the award for music. A few years ago, they made a seperate show for the Latino Emmys. Okay, fine. But then they still have awards for Latino music in the regular Emmys. WTF? It's gotten to the point where all those award shows don't mean squat to me anymore because instead of just having a few award shows a year, there's one on every weekend. It's watered down the value of the award in general. Ack, I'm getting off topic here, sorry.

Anyway, no one can un-do history. You can not right a wrong, in historical view. If we could right the wrongs, it would've been done a hundred plus years ago. I do think majority of white people have moved on and lived with equality. I consider humans equal all around. I think the people that bring up the race issues all the time are blacks. Jesse Jackson, Farrakan, etc. They are different, but they preach similar issues about unfair treatment of blacks in the past and that they need to stand up and fight. How about sit down and read a book to further your knowlege. I'm sure Mtv doesn't help either, and kids go and emulate what they think is cool. Mtv sucks.

[Hellfighter]

Also, wouldn't anyone who wants a break rather be in the U.S... aren't their hundreds of europeans illegally working in Florida too.

You call them Europeans? I call them Hispanics.

I just have to say "wow"

I wasn't sure if anyone would even post on this thread. I'm very impressed with the responses so far.

pez my friend, you may think all the Europeans you see in Florida are tourists, but I know the difference between Hispanics and Europeans. There are European students working in Florida illegally by the boatload.

[pezking]

I don't make it down to Florida very much. Last time I was there, it was Latino-ville. Basically, I had to speak Spanish to get anywhere or anything.

[Hellfighter]

While we are on the topic. Does anyone here find it offensive that there is a United Negro College fund? If there were a United Caucasian College fund I am sure every black activist would be on it like white on rice. There are so many groups for Blacks it is not even funny. They are the ones segregating themselves from everyone else and no-one points it out as racist??

I'm not sure why you think so many groups = its not funny- perhaps explain that one. I'm not big on those segregated groups you mentioned I agree [those institutions had their positive uses at one point - keep in mind many groups do the same thing, based on religion, nationality, or culture- so saying its a 'black' thing is distorted - perhaps because they get so much limelight may incline you to think that way], but you guys still have broken fences unique only in the States and I hope they get fixed sooner than later. Thinking one group is largely more to blame for the status-quo isn't fair in my opinion -regardless of who's dreaming that up, that vision won't get anyone far in terms of coming together.

For the record I'm against anyone segregating themselves as groups in order to put others as 'the bad guys'. Mostly I hate small kids getting their minds twisted by twisted adults regardless of race or wherever they may be on this tiny planet.

Generalizations are too easy; the simple minds get latched onto bad ideas that way. Thinking that you hear a leader lashing out or tons of a type of group around shouldn't be equated to 'Sooo, that's what they're all thinking" mentality. Doing that leads to people getting defensive and in effect clustering into that broader group and bringing about frictions as a result.

Yeah there are loud mouths all over, then there are amongst them some with a point. Look throughout historyto see who were accusing who of being ' rabble-rousing' troublemakers.... 18th century Freanch aristocrats vs. peasants, 19th century russian nobility vs. peasants, British Overlords vs. those rallying for American Independance.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/23/06 5:55pm

[Hellfighter]

Oh that's right the Jews aren't asking for money for something that happened to them that was much worse than slavery!

Can you really say there's a level of what's worse than each other?,,,,, not to mention 'much worse'.

I'm not saying either are good. I was thinking in the mind set of; If I had to choose between being a slave on a plantation somewhere or being locked up in a concentration camp held by nazi's. I'd probably want to be on the plantation. Thats all. And besides I was wrong as Feezy pointed out, they got compensated.

I dunno, I got the impression you were hinting those slaves had an option to punch out on a time card at the end of the day, or had unions to voice complaints, and could stage walk-outs. Maybe a google on photos of some of those slaves with totally ripped up backs from gratuitous lashes - can you imagine expecting a lifetime of that! It may make you rethink if there is actually a 'rather be' point.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/23/06 6:03pm

[pezking]

Maybe a google on photos of some of those slaves with totally ripped up backs from gratuitous lashes

Maybe they had mouthed off? LOL

[Hellfighter]

Maybe a google on photos of some of those slaves with totally ripped up backs from gratuitous lashes

Maybe they had mouthed off? LOL

lol, pretty funny pez, I wonder who mouthed off to go into gas chambers - maybe the little kids whined too much , lol, hahahha... its a funny topic isn't it.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/23/06 6:07pm

[pezking]

It's never a funny topic, but sometimes it's not bad to make light of situations... small jokes, etc. I never make fun of the holocaust because my grandfather died at a concentration camp.











He fell off the guard tower.



j/k obviously, my grandfather served under Patton, 3rdArmy/10thArmored.

[Hellfighter]

It's never a funny topic, but sometimes it's not bad to make light of situations... small jokes, etc. I never make fun of the holocaust because my grandfather died at a concentration camp.
He fell off the guard tower.



j/k obviously, my grandfather served under Patton, 3rdArmy/10thArmored.

I never make fun of anyone in a horrid situation either Pez, even if I'm not directly associated with it [ like yourself with your grandad's story]. I know what you mean about those small jokes though. A friend of mine told me when he went to Israel some years back and he heard the younger jews make such jokes [?] about that episode in their history. One time back in the 80s I was working for an 'egg-headed' caribean/black fellow in his printing company, I made a minor work booboo and he jokingly said "No wonder we don't get the vote in South Africa!" lol, that prick!

It's funny though, I had the pleasure of knowing for many years an elderly gentleman, Asher, who was Jewish and we got along great but he'd always jab at me with similar comments in this thread about over-zealous adventures of some afro-american leaders in the U.S. [in particular about the 'Roots' novel misrepresentation]. Knowing I had an interest in history and WW2, since I used to buy alot of books from his antique store in my spare cash days, he told me his war story in WW2. He was a truck driver in the Jewish Brigade attached to the Brit.army in Italy. There are a couple of very excellent books that cover the Brigade's clandestine activities hunting down nazis who thought they could slip away unpunished and also the Brigades crafty methods of supplying the Jews in Israel with arms. My friend Asher, also mentioned he survived two torpedoed ships crossing the Atlantic.

If you think that's horrible enough, you don't know the worst part.... on one of those ships, that particular night, he had night watch duty above deck.... only he and another survived the sinking- out of 1500 aboard!.

One day I wanted to put a cliq in his jabbing at me, so I brought in a book about the U.S 761st 'coloured' tank battalion with photos of their presence at the Buchenwald liberation - sort of like a 'we were in this together' thing. Another interesting note on concentration camps, in addition to all other 'undesirables' nazis sent there, sent there too were hundreds or more black/German nationals and no doubt some taken during the pre-war German nazi takeover of Alsace-Lorraine where many African vets of the French WW1 Army had been stationed to garrison at war's end. Some of these vets, settled down in the region to marry local gals- much to the Nazis indignation.

I remember another story from a Bulge campaign book where a whole bunch of yanks taken prisoner were about to be interogated - hundreds lined up in parade formation. As was typical, SS inerogattors showed up and called out for Jews to step out. The Jews started to step out then so did the rest of the GIs; SS bozos turned away empty handed.



This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/23/06 8:56pm

[UNDEAD 1]

i have to say pez that your origanal post is not that far off and is an intelligent rebuttle from a person who is not using HATE as his means of expressing himself. after 9-11 it seemed like the the differences between whites and blacks had cooled a bit and it seemed a bit like we were all working together as amaricans and it actually felt very nice but here we go again! even a man like BILL COSBY had a problem with exactly what this person said as to making the tests easier etc..just to get them out in the world.im a realtor in s florida and allthough most people think realtors drive the cadilac and drive the million dollar houses i also drive the very bad areas as well looking for investment properties such as section 8 housing.the buyers are usually hispanic and whites and the tennants are usually black (ive sold 30 this year and all were african amarican) and i have to say it bothers me when i walk into a sec 8 household and theres a $2000.00 flat screen tv sitting in their living room!

i see truth in what he writes because it does bother me seeing all the poverty and kids running drugs that i see for my own.but some people dont want to help themselves.its the people that work hard to get out of the ghettos and off the streets who have character in this world. i know that they have it ruff but we all make choices when we are young that reflects who we are going to be when we get older. theres not to many kids that went to school everyday and got good grades that didnt get caught up in crime or drugs that is not making a living in this world later in life.i am only speaking from personal experience and in no way do i have a racist bone in my body but theres alot worse of a letter this guy couldve written.

[Silver]

I would rather say fuck them all... I wont pay a black guy a penny for slavery! fuck that! Black people are not UNEDUCATED, or poor...

there is more money in the Worst neighborhoods then in most banks.

I am white and lived in an all "minority" (<--bs I was the minority!) and they have money from drugs... there is no jobs for them (and me) execpt Mc D's and BK... and how do you raise a family on that? if I had problems paying bills and feeding my kids il sell coke faster then anything else. some people I know collect elfare to offset bail!(picture that!) it costs around 1600 to live at minimum... welfare dont help, workiing at minimum wage dont pay bills..

no factories, no good jobs for high school drop outs... what ya gonna do? starve? let your kids go to school with raggy clothes? why when you see the guys down the street dealing and making it! you do what you have to... collect welfare, work off the side, steal, rob houses and sell crack! the white people in my area act like their shit dont stink, cuz they make 15 an hour and that they are so high and mighty... fuck them... at least they are trying, unlike the middle class white trash...

[Hellfighter]

...............
its the people that work hard to get out of the ghettos and off the streets who have character in this world. i know that they have it ruff but we all make choices when we are young that reflects who we are going to be when we get older. theres not to many kids that went to school everyday and got good grades that didnt get caught up in crime or drugs that is not making a living in this world later in life.i am only speaking from personal experience and in no way do i have a racist bone in my body but theres alot worse of a letter this guy couldve written.

Like I explained before there's a time and place for a group to be seeking, reparations, and such self-appointed upper/middle-class afro-american 'leaders' show themselves to be numbskulls since they are oblivious to how dopey they sound to most sane people -of any culture- when seriously thinking it's fair to bring up such an outdated issue .

My issue is with the opinions seeming to think every afro-american is drooling to see the idea go ahead, and also with the lofty generalizations of 'they owe us' attitudes, which to me puts you on the same level as the reparation ranters and only serves to divide people in the same way. I don't know exactly how it goes down there, but I believe instead of yourselves sitting back and protesting in the background, you should write an email to your congress-person with a rational exprsssion that you're against any form of restitution.... if you can't even take the time to at least do that then that's your problem.

I grew up poor too, but luckily drugs and violence weren't around in my time as a kid. I think its all about opportunities relatively being unhindered -even though it may be a struggle- one gets early in life that makes the difference. With what Silver mentioned, regardless of how much someone poor wants to better themselves, if they are in a neighbourhood with circumstances and drug-dealers beating down their efforts, things are tougher to get out and follow your dreams than areas where this isn't prevalent. It's no mystery hard work pays off ... those in ghettos can see examples of those that made it bigtime in all sorts of careers bringing themselves out of their hard living, and therefore the idea of restitution is not at all valid. But don't think everyone in a ghetto is out for a free meal ticket, in spite of everything being put against them to succeed, in spite of neglectful political policies and SOB criminal parasites in the neighbourhoods, many are trying to get ahead and work very hard to at least lead a normal productive life - so do them a favour and stop negatively labelling them.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/24/06 9:57am

[Nothing]

The problem we have is not a Black or White issue. All White people have Black friends, and Blacks have White friends. The problem is those in Ghettos and all poverty stricken areas. It just happens to be a large majority of Blacks in those areas. My Black friends and family(yes, my brother in law) are good people. But many (black and white) that are from those poverty stricken areas are trash. My parents were on their own at an early age and lived in areas that were not so good, but worked to get somewhere. They got their children out of the slums. I now, own a company. I benefited from their hard work. I was not handed my company or money to start it, but was handed a better school. No one should be asking for any reparations or anything else. Go out and work for it like everyone else had to. Thats why when someone asks for things like this it just pisses me off.

[pezking]

I agree that it's not always a black/white issue, I believe it's more of a culture or society issue. If you are growing up in the ghetto and don't have anything, ofcourse you're going to feel resentful towards those who have a lot or everything. This is a main tool used in the Middle East to train children to hate Americans. I've seen the footage of teachers showing US commercials for candy and soda, basically saying that kids in America eat/drink these products all day. It's partially true but it's more exagerated. These kids then build resentment towards others that have a better life, whether we do or not. Look at war time propaganda, same thing. We are taught to look at the other side, filtered, and then process resentment.

Looking back at it, all my friends are around me because we work together or grew up together, which puts us in the same background. I don't have any friends that live in the ghetto, not by choice, but by association. I do feel for anyone that is having a hard time but part of me thinks that if they try hard, they can remedy that situation.

Post-Katrina, everyone was talking about chocolate city and how the blacks were left to die. I thought that was a pile of crap. I understand that some people couldn't leave, I feel bad for them. But I also saw white people walking along the highway to safety.... they didnt' just wait for the govt. to take care of them. I think some people take actions into their own hands and others wait to be served. So you have a stadium full of (majority) black people and some start taking the law into their own hands. That was very unfortunate that people were raped and killed... reminded me of Lord of the Flies the way the whole situation was presented. What it all came down to was culture and class issue. There were a lot of people that got out of the city, blacks/whites/asian/hispanic/etc., that were more financially stable to have a car or other means to leave. I'm not saying that our govt. responded in time or that the people left behind were taken care of correctly... just saying that people shouldn't always rely on others for help. Sometimes you need to stand up and start taking charge of your own life. I thought this kind of analogized what many of you were saying in your posts as well.