Slavery Reparations, your thoughts? Options

[Hellfighter]

The problem we have is not a Black or White issue. All White people have Black friends, and Blacks have White friends. The problem is those in Ghettos and all poverty stricken areas. It just happens to be a large majority of Blacks in those areas. My Black friends and family(yes, my brother in law) are good people. But many (black and white) that are from those poverty stricken areas are trash. My parents were on their own at an early age and lived in areas that were not so good, but worked to get somewhere. They got their children out of the slums. I now, own a company. I benefited from their hard work. I was not handed my company or money to start it, but was handed a better school. No one should be asking for any reparations or anything else. Go out and work for it like everyone else had to. Thats why when someone asks for things like this it just pisses me off.

Man/Dude [something similar lol], we agree on that, but its not the guys in the ghetto asking for reparations, all I'm saying is beat up/be pissed off ONLY at the reparation-ranters themselves that are saying they are speaking on behalf of a group of people who seek reparations when that's not the case at all... you'll find 'the group' largely don't give a flying f... about what these so called 'leaders' are out to weasle. The dialogue I'm hearing here looks like people are kicking the wrong end of the can. Don't just complain in the forum, like I said write to your congressperson and tell them that these ranters are on power trips and don't represent the 'true' desires of afro-americans in general. Contrary to what you imagine most of them [not just a few isolated cases !] are thinking about normal day-to-day existence things like yourself; no major clandestine conspiracy going on against 'the Man'.... It should be apparent those that are ranting on the pulpits will be afro-americans who are among the well-to-do, not the majority of folks in the ghettos. Misdirecting anger at a group as whole rather than the real individuals who should take the flak has a negative impact.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/24/06 11:46am

[Druid]

The biggest problem when it comes to any discussion about slavery is, very few people know the facts.
Most Americians only know about slavery from either a slanted, rewritten history or people in their middle ages thinking the book/movie Roots as a good overview of slavery.
Without knowing the fact about slavery, I don't understand how anyone can even begin to discuss reparations.
Here are a few points people should keep in mind.
Slaves were kidnapped and brought to America.
Although this is true is a small precentage of cases, the vast majority were slaves long before they ever saw a white person. Slave traders pulled into one of 3 major ports and bought slaves the same way they bought supplies for their voyage to America. Slaves had been bought an sold in Africa for a 1000 years before there was even an America. In fact, slavery still exist even today in some parts of Africa. It's not uncommon for waring factions to take "human bounty"

Only blacks were slaves.
Most people would be surprised to find out a quarter of the slaves in America were actually Indians, especially along the western states. Even more suprising to most people is there was a small precentage of slaves who were white, mostly Catholics from Ireland.
Or how about the fact, there were around 3000 free blacks in America who owned slaves.
So much for it being a white/black issue.

The biggest reason why reperations will never happen.
The logistics involved are overwhelming.
It would be near impossible in the magority of cases to prove who is a direct desendant of a slave.

[Undertow]

Oh that's right the Jews aren't asking for money for something that happened to them that was much worse than slavery!

Can you really say there's a level of what's worse than each other?,,,,, not to mention 'much worse'.

I'm not saying either are good. I was thinking in the mind set of; If I had to choose between being a slave on a plantation somewhere or being locked up in a concentration camp held by nazi's. I'd probably want to be on the plantation. Thats all. And besides I was wrong as Feezy pointed out, they got compensated.

I dunno, I got the impression you were hinting those slaves had an option to punch out on a time card at the end of the day, or had unions to voice complaints, and could stage walk-outs.

How did you get that impression? Now your just putting words in my mouth. It isn't an argument on which is worse. It was to be an example of another group of people that were mistreated and how they weren't asking for money. BUT I WAS WRONG!!!!! So can you let it go? Your turning it into something that it's not.

[Hellfighter]

Oh that's right the Jews aren't asking for money for something that happened to them that was much worse than slavery!

Can you really say there's a level of what's worse than each other?,,,,, not to mention 'much worse'.

I'm not saying either are good. I was thinking in the mind set of; If I had to choose between being a slave on a plantation somewhere or being locked up in a concentration camp held by nazi's. I'd probably want to be on the plantation. Thats all. And besides I was wrong as Feezy pointed out, they got compensated.

I dunno, I got the impression you were hinting those slaves had an option to punch out on a time card at the end of the day, or had unions to voice complaints, and could stage walk-outs.

How did you get that impression? Now your just putting words in my mouth. It isn't an argument on which is worse. It was to be an example of another group of people that were mistreated and how they weren't asking for money. BUT I WAS WRONG!!!!! So can you let it go? Your turning it into something that it's not.

I have nothing to let go, if you can't take a crtique on your own critiques, stay out of the kitchen if you don't like the heat... Obviously I was being sarcastic... or it should've been obvious. I only responded precisely to what you clearly said - nothing more, I never said you thought the choices were good.

[Undertow]

Oh that's right the Jews aren't asking for money for something that happened to them that was much worse than slavery!

Can you really say there's a level of what's worse than each other?,,,,, not to mention 'much worse'.

I'm not saying either are good. I was thinking in the mind set of; If I had to choose between being a slave on a plantation somewhere or being locked up in a concentration camp held by nazi's. I'd probably want to be on the plantation. Thats all. And besides I was wrong as Feezy pointed out, they got compensated.

I dunno, I got the impression you were hinting those slaves had an option to punch out on a time card at the end of the day, or had unions to voice complaints, and could stage walk-outs.

How did you get that impression? Now your just putting words in my mouth. It isn't an argument on which is worse. It was to be an example of another group of people that were mistreated and how they weren't asking for money. BUT I WAS WRONG!!!!! So can you let it go? Your turning it into something that it's not.

I have nothing to let go, if you can't take a crtique on your own critiques, stay out of the kitchen if you don't like the heat... Obviously I was being sarcastic... or it should've been obvious. I only responded precisely to what you clearly said - nothing more, I never said you thought the choices were good.

Sorry I used the word's 'much worse'. I guess since I was never in either situation I wouldnt know which is worse. I can only speculate. And thats what I did. Oh and your sarcasm wasnt obvious. Now can we drop it? I dont want to argue with you. There's no point.

[Hellfighter]

...... Oh and your sarcasm wasnt obvious. ........

in response to this poster's apparently sad attempt to be sarcastic ;

I dunno, I got the impression you were hinting those slaves had an option to punch out on a time card at the end of the day, or had unions to voice complaints, and could stage walk-outs.....

Lol , I'll stick to my normal loopy humour then, which unfortunately may be worse than my other attempts at being funny


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/24/06 3:05pm

[Silver]

ill solve it all, i will run for prez and send everyone back to their origional country... me to kilt country, blacks to africa, white to the EU country of choice, any mutts we shoot... canadians well we can shoot them too... give america back to the native-american indians. also anyone that is malato gets to go to africa.

[pezking]

Got my vote!

[dienamic]

Got to give it to Druid for the research. In fact, Africans were the one to capture and sell them not only to us but anyone. For over 1000 years the dominent tribes would inslave the lesser ones. I am not saying this is ok, but if Afro Americans really want reparations, they should seek them from Africa and only if their former tribes did not inslave anyone in the past.

I work with inner city kids all year in sports and I hear this stuff all the time. I am really kinda fed up with it.



This post has been edited by dienamic: 03/26/06 2:31am

[SaMoAN SeRiAL KiLLA]

damn what about us mexicans who land was screws form them then what about our rep u dont hear us cryin lololol damn get over it what about the jews what about the chinese what about the mexicans what about the irish at one point every race waqs screwed this sounds mean but the blacks have not had it the worst stopp acting stupid

[Hellfighter]

Got to give it to Druid for the research. In fact, Africans were the one to capture and sell them not only to us but anyone. For over 1000 years the dominent tribes would inslave the lesser ones. I am not saying this is ok, but if Afro Americans really want reparations, they should seek them from Africa and only if their former tribes did not inslave anyone in the past.

I work with inner city kids all year in sports and I hear this stuff all the time. I am really kinda fed up with it.

Actually a good point dienamic.... I'm surprised at the level of persecution complex in SOME afro americans - Many of you keep claiming the masses of one group are banging at the doors for such a handout- I find that as annoying as the few power-trippers who are stirring up crap seriously demanding reparations....With time, eventually the see-saw of common sense prevails and these claims will be seen as futile as historical education makes the 'poor me' syndrome redundant.
I mentioned this fact about African slave traders on page 1 of this thread [give it a read]... and the fact that some Sudanese tribes are still doing it today. As Druid mentioned too indentured slavery was 'common' amongst whites a few centuries ago. One can argue to the afro-american reparation ranters that the descendants of the exploited 'poor classes' in England [18th/19th century Industrial revolution] would have a right to claim reparations too.
It's too bad many of you use an outraged reaction to a mass of people when in fact only a few-power trippers are barking up the tree. A good knowledge of history will help you scoff at those idiois bleeting the 'poor me' message who are oblivious to other folks suffering too throughout history and all over the world and rising up out of their ashes eventually.
You probably won't get away with my proposed suggestion below Dienamic since things are probably more 'catty' south of the border regarding presenting racial history... or rather who is presenting it. But up here I lend some assistance to a lecturer on black history throughout the ages and their participation in world events looked upon with with great reception because of the broad spectrum his presentations cover - no hidden agenda, showing how we were and are building history together
We are surprised by the incredible lack of knowledge the black kids [american/caribbean] have of ancient African Kingdoms, African integration into Christianity and Judaism at their beginnings, inventors, their integration into Roman armies, Napoleonic armies [in particuular, a General Dumas], American War of Independance armies, WW2 etc., They have the impression they had nothing before slavery/ then they were enslaved and colonised and that their real history began with the dawn of successful civil rights movement in the 1960's.... they are nearly 99.9% unaware their ancestors traded themselves as slaves to other traders who were Africans, Arabs, and Jews. It's slow process but my friend forges ahead with his exhibitions to tell these kids [and adults] to get their heads out of the sand and get real with their real past and thus lose the prevalent persecution complex.

My hope Dienamic is that you can somehow get these kids to know they didn't always have a gloomy history but one where they proved themselves by themselves in their days of kingdoms, and they should be made well aware of the efforts/sacrifices of white abolishinists to help create an equally based society rather than a house divided. Like Samoan says... it's time to get over it! I hope the USA breaks the cycle of racial divisions hammering at each other.




This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/26/06 7:41pm

[T/A6Pak]

BRAVO ALL,

Well worth the read. Alot of interesting points some with facts, some without.

As far as I am concerned in the year 2000.. everyone started on even ground. All historic, bullshit lawsuits should be thrown in the shreddar. But unfortunately in today's world, everyone's out to make a free buck where ever they can. Hard work has it's payoffs and everyone has the choice whether they want to work hard when they are young to make a future for themselves...or if they think they can live off other people and make ends meet.

I know people who have billions of dollars and you would never know it to meet them. (Most self made, by working their asses off and suffering from not seeing there children grow up and dealing with several divorces. I've seen people with enough money to get by, live in a small house, but spend quality time together and have marriages that most rich people dream about.

I personally think it's about time people stop saying "What can you do for me" and focus on "What can I do for me"

Just my opinion:)

[Hellfighter]

BRAVO ALL,
..............
I personally think it's about time people stop saying "What can you do for me" and focus on "What can I do for me"

Just my opinion:)

Excellent... and perhaps one better that many of 'these' kids are seriously lacking..... "What can we do for the world and fellow citizens?" I'd like to see them more aware and active in global issues and spending their money not on bling bling and helping the bank accounts of their idol rapsters get fatter, but in charities, and spend time in tree-hugging types of crusades -ok not gonna happen , but something similar.

[UNDEAD 1]

i agree fully! if your hero is some idiot who claims to have shot up some places and smoke weed every day wearen gold teeth you will be that!

one thing ive recently found interesting and this may tell you where our country is going(please correct me if im off because i do not have the documentation infront of me)

from the nar (national assoc of realtors) census for the entire us (not just florida) onthe percentages of owning a home .

latino is like %60 , white %30 asian less %10 black less than %5 (they dont explain them as african am this is catagorized as carib,hatian ,african amarican etc..) it means latino will bust their ass to buy and stay -whites usually contemplate things and tend to wait and it shows that more than %90 of black are renters and alot of that comes from the what you gonna do for me attitude.please check my work ,im looking and cant find the papers.even for whites thats suprising i thought.for the latino thats how the irish made it here as well.

[dienamic]

I finally made it back to this thread. I guess it was on my mind because I had lunch Shannon Watkins "the Non For Profit sports organization President I am a member of " and Tom Bodett....no not the motel 6 guy but a Kansas City Chief lineman lol.

We discussed the inner city today during lunch and started planning our spring camp and fundraisers. Even though I am against reparations for the most part, I do enjoy helping these kids. Without us most will end up in gangs, selling dope, prison or dying in the streets. To tell the truth Hellfighter, I do try and get them to not dwell on thier problems, but focus on thier future. I am not so sure they would accept me trying to get them to research thier past. It has taken me 4 years just to get the inner city people to trust me with the sports and moral training we provide for thier kids.

If I have helped but one child black, white, etc.....it was all worth it. As far as giving them a free ride or treating them with pity, I am a mean ol coach that is not afraid to shake the hell out of a couple of kids who decided to settle disputes with thier fists or worse. For now, that is all I can do.

Reporations.....I can still only say hmmmmmmm.