Ban rebuttal Options

[commienazi]

I found out today that I was banned on the recommendation of Dolphin Girl. Although I am “guilty” of using language deemed by others to be offensive, I must say I am a bit surprised. Others who have been banned complained of a double standard when it comes to language and even provided screen shots of MOB members violating their own offensive language rule. Now, ultimately it is “your” server and you can make the rules as you see fit – and you have as evidenced by MOB members not being held to the same standard.



My only beef is disclosure. MOB servers posts a generic “please refrain from using profain {sic} language” however what constitutes profane seems to be ill defined. I have no problem of a legitimate ban based on blatant violation of the rules; however I feel that I was not sufficiently made aware of the severity of the violations. Dolphin Girl mentions she has kicked me “several times” – that’s news to me. I can’t recall ever receiving a warning and certainly not an ultimatum about my behaviour. It may be helpful (judging from all the banned forum postings) for the server to post a very clear and definite warning (e.g. “you are being warned for using offensive language – one more violation will result in a permanent ban”). You know, if I received a message like that, I would have cease and desisted. Even so, I felt my “offensive language” was tame and inoffensive, but that’s a matter of opinion.



In the end, the decision to ban is up to you. I hope you reconsider based on the following:



-- inconsistent application of the rules (se above) – MOB can get away with violating the server rules. You need to have consistent standards.

-- I have played MOB BARB server for a very long time (before Dolphin girl), yet I was dropped from behind closed doors with no opportunity for rebuttal. I’m beginning to think DG is really Dick Cheney.

-- cooperation and teamwork – many MOB members can attest that I spend a lot of time working on teamwork and coordination and am an asset to any team



Lastly, I can’t close without mentioning how I understand the frustration level experienced by non-MOB players. MOB has the BARB map dialed in. MOB players use the paks to blow bunkers and rely on team chat to coordinate attacks. It’s no longer a game, but more of a task for MOB players. Now I fully understand that’s the end result of a clan playing one map type; however those who play occasionally are not afforded the same advantages. I do not know where to aim the paks to blow bunkers (advantage – MOB); I do not get on vent and coordinate with my fellow non-MOB teammates (advantage – MOB). I do not have a well rehearsed M.O. nor do non-MOB players (advantage – MOB). So while you frequently use the retort “it’s only a game” (in the forum posts) those who play occasionally are frequently outclassed by the MOB players and some get frustrated and lash out in many ways (e.g. cussing). In the end, you will eventually wind up with a MOB-only server playing each other and where’s the fun in that?



In closing, let me say that I hope you would reconsider my ban (and a ban of perhaps others who fall in the same boat as I do). I would hate to think that I am permanently banned based on the objections of a few without so much as stern warning.



Thanks,



CommieKazi

[Maj. H8Red]

I wasn't there, so I don't know what was said. I can only say this; please use language that is suitable for children & women, many of both play on our servers. Yes, you have played Barb a lot, does that grant you special privileges? no, sorry.

Occasional words like damn, shit or hell, may be tolerated, but I wouldn't press my luck on much than that.

Normally, when asked to watch language, it means just that. Take a second to review what you typed. If you're warned for it, obviously an admin had a problem or was offended by it.

As for tactics, there is a thread in General discussion (public) for Barb. feel free to use it, that's what it's there for. Several members have spent a lot of time learning & sharing "Barb tricks" (none more than Scrapyard Bob)

[commienazi]

Understood. Might I suggest a zero tolerance? That way it is absolutely clear what is and is not tolerated. DG posted my two transgressions (a$$ and *ussy). C'mon, a$$ is not tolerated but lmao is?

As it stands currently, allowing "light profanity" merely creates a grey area or wiggle room, which is difficult to police consistently.

I am not asking to be reinstated based on my frequency of play; merely that I've played a long time only to be banned now. This is illustrative of perhaps a momentary transgression (if I had a potty mouth I would have been banned a long time ago, right?). Maybe you would reconsider once you learn I have Tourette's Syndrom, which causes my occasional, yet tame, outbursts.

[<Dolphin>*Girl*]

You also insulted MOB and insulted me in your post, Do you honestly think your going to be unbanned I have kicked you several times and I know Silver has kicked you and have also kicked you under my son's name cause every time your on your swearing. So for you to say you have never been kicked you lie. You will not be unbanned. So please stop wasting my time. I was being nice by not banning you sooner for your language, and there are automatic meesages on our server about your language and I personally have told you. Sorry if you can't read

[Hellfighter]

.......Maybe you would reconsider once you learn I have Tourette's Syndrom, which causes my occasional, yet tame, outbursts.

Bad joke... Anyway TICs would involve sudden vocal outbursts; premeditated typing out of foul language is not a sudden involuntary outburst. The clear rule on profanity says no excessive use of profanity. If you were using it out of hand once then cautioned that was fair warning enough. When you ignore the warning and continue that's excess and you alone have shot yourself in the foot.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 05/15/06 3:48pm

[commienazi]

wow...such venom from DG. For the life of me I can't figure out how MOB or you personally were insulted by my post. Can anyone point that out to me because I just don't see it. I wrote a vbery cogent and incisive post only to be personally attacked by DG -- completely uncalled for.

As far as multiple previous bans -- it really is news to me. Have I received warnings about inappropriate language; sure. Did I stop when warned, sure did. According to your rules of conduct, light cussing seems to be ok. With that said, what is the threshold for crossing that line -- it needs to be defined otherwise admins will be "wasting their time" responding to numerous jerks. My primary complaint is that there is no nexus (that's a big word DG, might want to look that one up) regarding offense and punishment. Did I lie about getting kicked; no. What I said is to my knowledge I wasn't kicked for profanity -- which is why my argument is please be clear in your warnings! I recall being unable to log onto the server for 20 minutes but was never given a reason as to why. If I knew it was related to "offensive" language again a cease and desist would have been in order.

Apparently guests to MOB need to know the whims of the admins each time they play and need to figure out on their own cryptic "warnings". I can assure you there was no mention of why I was kicked just only that I was kicked for 20 minutes. PB error? invalid packets? high ping? It could have been any of these. There was no reason given -- so how am I to feel "warned?"

It's no skin off my teeth if I'm banned. I have 3 PCs and will merely log on with a different IP address and screen name should I choose; however I think I may have had my fill. I THOUGHT MOB was a cool server until this experience. No sour grapes here, just my conclusion after reading posts from others who are banned. It seems some people have been banned for seemingly minor infractions.

I'm a considerate player and a good player. I don't use racial slurs and use the same language you can find on NYPD Blue, but hey, hypocrisy is all the rage nowadays (just look at all the cussing from MOB members in other screen shot postings), so I understand. In the end, I was banned because a couple of hypocrites felt threatened by someone pointing out the double standard. This should serve as a warning for perspective players/future members.

I'll miss playing with some of the good players (e.g. DDz, mjr h8red, etc.). But hey, it IS just only a game and there are many other servers from which to choose. Thanks for the many hours of enjoyment (which I'm sure was mutual). Too bad something as petty as this ended it for me.



CK

[<Dolphin>*Girl*]

I never said you insulted MOB in your post. But on Barb which I post the screen shot too. You called MOB pussies. And you insulted me in your post. And you just said you have been warned about your language. Then you were warned and banned because you choice to ignore the warnings
Later

[HarryCaray]

Whenever I'm on this page and I click the top left of my browser music plays. Click the bar on the top left of your browser. It's only on this page though.


"however I feel that I was not sufficiently made aware of the severity of the violations. Dolphin Girl mentions she has kicked me “several times” – that’s news to me. I can’t recall ever receiving a warning and certainly not an ultimatum about my behaviour"

As for your ban, what do you see when you join the server? I believe MOB puts that their as your warning.


This post has been edited by HarryCaray: 05/15/06 4:45pm

[Silver]

Well look who shows up! Someone I have warned, debated with about the use of profanity, and has in previous statements talked disrespectfully about {MOB}. I have kicked you before for swearing, warned you for swearing, but you still don’t get the hint on what is permitted in our servers. If you have been around for a long time (not) then you would have seen over 100 kicks for stupidity. (Including your own) if you cannot understand what our policy is for excessive cursing, then read the FAQ topic located here: http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...?showtopic=9802

(Incase your mouse has trouble clicking)

(Profanity
Although we don't consider the {MOB} servers as G- rated, excessive or constant use of profanity is not allowed)


Now as for “we have a habit of this” remark we don’t tolerate repeated stupidity, even from regular members. Examples:

http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...opic=11188&st=0

http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...showtopic=11123

The fact that you have come here implies that you were unaware of the reason to why you were banned. I doubt that, I doubt that you even had a defense until you read through our forums looking for a commonality with other bans. The fact that you were going though our banned section implies this.
You don’t belong to this clan so that leaves you as a guest here. Our rules to server conduct are labeled in our forums so there is no reason as to why you didn’t know of these rules. Its also on the loading screen and sent up to the console every few minutes as a constant reminder.

We are a fair clan, and we look wisely at the bans before we it takes effect.
Examples:

http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...opic=11081&st=0

http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...showtopic=11195
With all this being said:

Loading screen has warnings on them.

Server sends messages warning of excessive use of profanity.

IF you have been around for more then a month then you have seen multiple kicks on our servers.

I have warned you.

I have kicked you.

You have been banned.

The bandwagon that you are attempting to ride on belongs to {MOB}.

*edit in bad judgement came across difrently then intended* unfortunatly i am human!

We even gave {MOB}Goosedown a kick for a team-kill.

And you are complaining for what again?

This post has been edited by Silver: 05/15/06 5:42pm

[dienamic]

I would not bring me into what may be me siding with this guy Silver. I wasn't there, but from what I see, he is posting calmly asking for some closure.

You know what I am getting at so I will not elaborate. There are times I see "patrons" getting away with what he is doing as well as more and I believe he should be at least considered for a last chance. I have nothing to lose for posting this, but others have done alot worse and nothing has happened to them........

Just for the record nazi, if you are given another chance, remember to not do as "others" do, but try and remember that life can be unfair and it is full of double standards or rules you may think you need not heed to.. If you do not like the way Mob runs it's servers, simply go somewhere else. As a father, I like to see the "potty mouthing" cut down to a minimum just because my son plays and often under my name. In fact, I would like to see alot of things change lol.

If you indeed have been kicked a number of times before, that can in anyones eyes serve as warning enough. If you disrespect the wife of one of these guys, you will pay for it "or one would think". Remember this and for God's sake lose the cussing where ever you go.

[Silver]

I would not bring me into what may be me siding with this guy Silver.

no but i see how that came across and edited it. i am sorry, i was trying to show that we even take care of our own membrs and keep our policy's in regards to ourselves.... bad wording and judgement.

i dont care for the ban about his language, but more so for the disrespect to our clan.

i use colorful language, but know when to stop...

again i appologize to what i said... mental slip.

[commienazi]

sorry..hit quote instead of reply.

First off, let me say that I have gotten to the root of the problem. It appears my son has been playing under my screen name and hence the disconnect I have had regarding some of the more egregious remarks I've been accused of and my recollection of those events. I am sorry for the confusion and apologize for the time this issue consumed. I am thinking up a decent punishment (any suggestions?). I'm thinking of forcing him to play MOB Barb with a mouse with no scroll wheel.

On to part two. I am sorely dismayed at some of the responses I received regarding my post. I have to commend Dienamic for his understanding and thoughtful reply. I honestly and politely tried to get a valid response to my question, only to be badgered, accused of being a liar and and subjected to some of the worst grammar I've ever seen (very difficult since I'm an English teacher at a religious school -- which is why "I" am guilty of using so much profanity ).

Is this the true nature of MOB clan or just the postings of a vocal minority? Again, my post had to do with consistent applications for your own server rules. Dienamic speaks to this when he mentions he's seen people get away with a lot worse. I have too. I've never used f*$% or s*%$ but an occasional ass (or A-hole) has slipped out. As far as the warnings, I can't speak to what my son typed or was warned about (I can only imagine); however might I suggest a "time out" ban as opposed to an outright ban for offenders? In other words, ban them, but ban them for 1 week; 2 weeks, whatever, depending onthe nature of the offense. We all get frustrated, we all have transgressions. Hell, the catholic church would make offenders say a couple of dozen hail marys, maybe a confession and then be done with it. I would also suggest a monetary penalty definitely for members (if they violate a rule, they must donate X amount) as well as non-members who were banned. For example, I was banned; however for a server donation of X$ the ban could be lifted. Repeat offenses require an increased donation.

All I ask is that you be clear and consistent with your policy. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't apply the Supreme Counrt's definition of pornography to your offensive language policty (i.e. I'll know it when I see it). Users must know what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour. For example, I remember getting a warning for using the phrase "this sucks goat nards." The warning came from a MOB clan member but not an admin. 1) was this really offensive and 2) when is a warning a warning? If it comes from the console or any MOB member?

As far as the "stupidity" comment and not reading posts, I'll be the bigger man (in more ways than one) and let the stupid comment fall on deaf ears; however as far as the reading comment goes, well, has anyone ever been involved with a firefight and can't read all the postings on the screen? I know the MOB campers at the russian bases have plenty of time to read evey post, but those on the german side are too busy fighting off the MOB red tide to read every comment.

CommieKazi

[Cpt.Canuck]

It seems like there is a new post regarding this very topic nearly every day.

Thought your argument was fair, and well worded. But clearly MOB does not tolerate bad language, and you had been warned numerous times before (MOB's rules though do seem to apply differently to different people in different situations).

Lastly, I can't close without mentioning how I understand the frustration level experienced by non-MOB players. MOB has the BARB map dialed in. MOB players use the paks to blow bunkers and rely on team chat to coordinate attacks. It's no longer a game, but more of a task for MOB players. Now I fully understand that's the end result of a clan playing one map type; however those who play occasionally are not afforded the same advantages. I do not know where to aim the paks to blow bunkers (advantage – MOB); I do not get on vent and coordinate with my fellow non-MOB teammates (advantage – MOB). I do not have a well rehearsed M.O. nor do non-MOB players (advantage – MOB). So while you frequently use the retort "it's only a game" (in the forum posts) those who play occasionally are frequently outclassed by the MOB players and some get frustrated and lash out in many ways (e.g. cussing). In the end, you will eventually wind up with a MOB-only server playing each other and where's the fun in that?

Why I dont play Barb anymore. The long distance pak/tank shelling became rather irritating.

That being said though, you can't complain because MOB players simply know the map better, or have a better strategy than you. Play the map more often to learn and develop your own strategy, or visit the COD:UO forum here for tips from Barb vets (MOB and non-MOB alike).

Uh, if you get unbanned.

This post has been edited by Cpt.Canuck: 05/15/06 6:10pm

[commienazi]

To illustrate my point about hypocrisy, a brief sampling from Dolphin Girl's comments today:

first reply -- "You also insulted MOB and insulted me in your post" (Dolphin Girl 5/15/06 2:20 pm)

subsequent reply -- "I never said you insulted MOB in your post" (DG 5/15/06 3:54 pm)

Do you see the inconsistencies here? Perhaps my complaint of hypocrisy and inconsistent application of rules may have a little merit?

CK

[<Dolphin>*Girl*]

To illustrate my point about hypocrisy, a brief sampling from Dolphin Girl's comments today:

first reply -- "You also insulted MOB and insulted me in your post" (Dolphin Girl 5/15/06 2:20 pm)

subsequent reply -- "I never said you insulted MOB in your post" (DG 5/15/06 3:54 pm)

Do you see the inconsistencies here? Perhaps my complaint of hypocrisy and inconsistent application of rules may have a little merit?

CK

I told you You insulted mob in the screen shot Are you blind?

I never said you insulted MOB in your post. But on Barb which I post the screen shot too. You called MOB pussies. And you insulted me in your post. And you just said you have been warned about your language. Then you were warned and banned because you choice to ignore the warnings
Later

Again here is the screen shot

This post has been edited by <Dolphin>*Girl*: 05/15/06 6:22pm