Banning of MormonMarine?, MormonMarine Options

[Nothing]

I agree,

I dont want to make enemies from old friends here. I was only voicing my opinion here and seems like im pissing people off. The decision was made to ban the kid and it is final. Everything we all say here is pointless.

[Silver]

Drama, drama, drama...

wtf is everyone panties in a bunch for? I said he was a nice kid... he didnt start my house on fire or kill my dog so hes a nice kid. I dont remember calling him an asshole, I may have but I think I called everyone an asshole at least once. I stuck up for him more then once, including with cross...

as for me recruiting... BAH!

its not my clan, its OUR clan... hell its more of what we wanted as a team...
most of this shit is what it is shit. we dont want trouble with MOB, I like most ppl, but I also dont like the insuination from Bar and cuda that I am riding the fence and not taking a side. I took a side, and left. easy as that. I dont see why the problems...

but here it is, silver this silver that. we just dont see eye to eye on things and we could do better alone.

MM isnt a bad kid, hes not pushing drugs, he is a lil hyper but hey so was I. my son isnt too much younger then him and my son acts about the same.

ppl need to chill, relax and comprehend that you ALL PUT TOO MUCH THOUGHT INTO THIS SHIT! STOP OVER THINKING!

MM is a good kid, he hasnt hacked MOB, or BsS for that matter.... is a great player.... WTF is the deal? do you really want a kid to act like an adult? wtf? being an adult sucks donkey balls, I would much rather see him act like a kid, and maybe a lil bit will rub off on me. something that you guys should learn from.

to everyone in this topic, be a lil immature at times and grow up in other areas.

DRIUD i dont want to stir shit, hell I really loved being in MOB I dont want to cause drama...

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG! now im gonna go post on our forums, they are not pretty, simple and plain to be honest... but it works for us atm.

soon as we get a few more things stright ill drop the dime as to were we are and yall can come and visit!

[Druid]

Miked
According to this post, it is irrelevant what the Regs, any Regs think. Not one single member of MOB has in any way disputed it. I have felt the underlying sentiment of Saucy's post several times over the past few months. Each time I have ignored it. This time I will not. He's right that MOB can do whatever it wants. He may be right that MOB doesn't have to defend or explain its actions to REGS. But he is wrong as to whether or not the actions should be open and clearly explained. They should be open. They should be explained.

This is little more than a repeat of your earlier assertion about having little input on the subject.
The topic was public for a week & was 4 pages long, you even replied to it twice.
Yet you still what to try and claim it wasn't open????
As for the claim the decision wasn't explained, what do you think has been going on in this thread???

You can describe Saucy's post whatever way will make you fell better.
The fact is the end decision was left up to MOB for a variety of reasons.
The biggest being so there could be an open discussion on how to handle the situation, which there couldn't have been in the regs section as most people tend to sit on the fence & not comment if the person can read it.
Keep in mind, right up until the decision was made he still had access to the Regs forum.
Another reason was to get an impartial vote as possible.
Look what’s happened here, even though he had been banned in the past, has been given numerous warning, how many people automatically said "give him one more chance or make excuses for him because he's young", based on nothing more than they game with him. The truth is he's been given more chances than anyone else and his age isn't an excuse.

As for how it's suddenly very fashionable to act as though Regs have no say in anything or are second class citizens. I take personal exception to that as I'm the one who originated the idea of the Regs group & devoted so much of my time & effort in the beginning to making them a reality.
There is a F.A.Q. addressing exactly who & what the regs are. I only mention that because it's apparent there is some confusion. As for the rest of it.
I'll leave those who now wish to complain about now having a say or not meaning anything, with a few thoughts.

When MOB wanted to close Cassino we didn't because there was a handlfull of Regs who wanted to keep it open.
Before any possible changes were made to the servers, we've always asked for input from the Regs.
MOB did everything we could to support those who wanted to participate in Hotel Hot Stuff & BsS by providing the servers for practice & matches.
MOB provided the forums to support the teams.
Yet a handfull of people now want to try and make it as though, they didn't have a voice here or were treated poorly?
That's just crazy.


#######
Note:
When I posted this I though it was quoting Miked's reply, when actaully it was editing it.
So the post I'm quoting from has now been deleted.
#######

[miked]

This is totally off topic, but where did your friend work, mike. I worked at a place where the supervisor left in the middle of the shift. People were looking all over for him. All he left was a post it on his monitor saying "gone fishin'". Best walk out I've ever seen.

OK, back on topic. The regs oppinions count on a lot of topics. This was one MOB took upon itself. There is a very long history with MM and I don't think very many regs are fully aware of that history. This wasn't discussed amoung us while we were voting, but that is why I didn't insist it be brought to the regs for their oppinions. We did get to see quite a few oppinions of regs in the original complaint thread, however, and I did consider them. But since many people who thought he deserved another warning weren't around for previous warnings, I had to go with my own belief that he will continue to cause problems as long as we let him play on the server.

Bargod,

For that resignation, he was at either "Defense Weekly," or "Janes".

I am not going to argue MOB's decision. I have stated my thoughts on that.

I have told you and Druid that I think that you guys do a great job of holding things together and keeping them operational. That recognition also goes out to OMM and others, too. I believe that you have been open and forthright in your dealings with me.

The problem for me has nothing to do with the decision that was made. It has everything to do with an attitude that I've seen now a number of times. I have decided to use this issue as an opportunity for change. MOB has that opportunity as well. Until REGS are respected rather than just tolerated by all MOB members this issue will keep coming up. MOB can treat the REGS anyway it wants, but some ways will be more effective than others.

I'm gone, and it makes no difference to me. Heck with the resounding silence from most of REGS and MOB, maybe it makes no difference to anyone at all.

Good luck,

miked

[Genocide Junkie]

I've been treated very well as a [Reg] although I don't play UO most of the COD2 guys have been great. In fact I've had tons of input on a few things regarding the servers and [Regs] access etc. I think most of the [Regs] who play COD2 would say the same. This is all just silly. Like a bunch of 7 yr olds fighting about being in each other's club. Think about it. It's not that much different....... Later.

Junkie

[Cpt.Canuck]

I can't believe I read this entire thread... it was mildly amusing.

I don't even know why there is an argument regarding this. Marine broke the rules and was consequently banned.

I was the one who used the example of what would happen to someone who used the name {IamGay}*insertMOBmembername*{IamGay}. I was pretty confident that the person would be banned, and without much discussion. Why treat MormonMarine any differently?

The "oh, he's just a kid" excuse doesn't hold any water - especially after he's been warned numerous times about his behaviour.


However, I'm not affilliated with MOB in any way - just my two cents.

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

big deal he said someone was gay...
trooper u got a nice kid

Not what you said here.

Bargod,

My biggest problems with this decision are that it was:

A. Done completely in private in the Mob rather than Regs Private Section.

B. When the topic was public, there was no clear consensus. It seemed that the people usually playing UO with Marine weren't the ones pushing to have him banned.

C. The link that you provided dating back to November was about someone interupting the game and causing teamkills. That was a situation that I believe warranted a ban or at least a long kick. In this case, however, it was two kids changing their names. The two issues are not the same.

All of that said,Mob has the right to do what it pleases. I disagree with the decision in this case. More importantly, I disagree with the way the decision was made. I believe that loss of tags and all that it entails would have been completely sufficient. Perhaps more than sufficient for a kid that wants to belong and has always been ready to help out (with base practice, HHS practice, 2x2 practice etc).

I will reiterate that I have been on servers many times with Marine. He is high strung, and he likes to goof off sometimes. But he has always been responsive to people correcting him.

miked

I was going to write something, but this is bang on Mike. I especially don't like that MOB decides a Regs fate with no consultation whatsoever with us. We didn't even know they were talking about it.

We have a big vote on Samoan's fates, being told a removal from Regs is incredibly rare, then a week later MOB guys vote by themselves with no input from everyone else to remove MormonM. How does this clan work again?

Hmm, I guess I did say something.

MoD

This post has been edited by M@ster of Dis@ster: 09/06/06 4:21pm

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

I to think a temporary ban is needed. For at least 4 weeks though, c'mon, its his second ban. Also, Im sure these things that he is doing probably will not accur again, but it will be something new. He needs to be on pins and needles apon a return.

Regs should not have been upset with any decision made by MOB. Dont know for sure, but from what I hear, the main difference between MOB and Regs is that MOB members pay for the servers and Regs dont. If that is indeed the case, MOB has the right to conduct themselfes and clan any way they seem fit. Be glad they even allow their tags to go out to people for free membership. You need to act as if you were a MOB member when wearing Regs tags.

If I were in MOB and I had all these Regs leaving and starting shit because of this issue, I would be very pissed and want all of the people banned. I like most of you guys and its hard to say, but really man. Its like your shitting where you eat. You like to play on MOB servers and liked to be Regs, but because a few members got a hair up their ass and wanted to pull away, you are following them? Where is your loyalty to the MOB?

What r u talking about? Some MOB guys went, and some Regs guys went. I don't know what is going on, but a combination of the two went, and yet you find a reason to single out the Regs who move? I don't follow the logic.

(snipped myself...)

MOD

This post has been edited by M@ster of Dis@ster: 09/06/06 4:56pm

[Bargod]

I really don't understand where you guys got the idea that your oppinions don't count. Are you saying that we don't have the authority to do what we did? Are you familiar with all the times MM has been brought up for bans in the past and we offered "one last chance"? Regs had a chance to have thier say, and still do. We try to do everything we can for regs. I don't know where you guys get the idea that we think you are crap. It just doesn't make any sense. The regs are a group of people that are loyal to our servers and make gaming here fun. So Druid created a private forums for you and we've helped organize competitive teams on ladders.
Would we go through all of this if MOB didn't respect the regs?

[HammaTime]

*** sigh ***

This thread serves as a perfect example for you, MormonTrooper, of what I was speaking of when I talked about fatigue setting in. Issues brought before the MOB council would often experience just this kind of combativeness.

Hey, miked, I was a journalism major in college too. My first job was with the Boston Globe and then I moved to the Rocky Mountain News in Denver before coming back east. One thing they taught me in j-school was to report accurately. Both you and MoD have widely missed on the history of the MM saga. As Druid so carefully pointed out, this was discussed in a thread in the open public forum for all to see and all to comment on. Once the discussion stretched to fill FOUR pages, it was pulled into the MOB section and a vote was made. I wasn't part of that decision to move the thread, but I'm sure some members felt we were airing a bit too much of our dirty laundry, so to speak.

The vote that was eventually made by MOB members was based in large part on the public discussion that had taken place in the open public forum.

REGS DO MATTER!! Look who we have who used to be Regs! Have you not been reading Bargod's impassioned posts about his history as one of the first Regs? There is a firm commitment to the Regs community here. Unfortunately, there are the rare topics that need to be discussed privately so we can gauge the mood of the full {MOB} members.

If you don't like being a Reg and being part of that community, you are encouraged to inquire about membership in full {MOB}. You also have many avenues for discussing issues that concern you. And trust me, everyone listens. We all have the success of these servers and this clan at heart. We'd be totally fool-hearty if we were to ignore such an important and vital part of the clan.

Everyone acts as if this decision was "life or death" for MormonMarine. Take a deep breath and relax. This may come as a shock to many, but I've been a supporter of both MM and MT since they first started battling here. I play alongside my best mate, Cross of Iron, virtually every night and yet I NEVER witnessed MM doing any of the things that drove people batty. When Cross wasn't playing one day, I saw one minor event that required a warning be sent to both MM and MT. I felt that warning was justified, not because I wanted them banned, but because I wanted them to be aware that their actions were against server policy and the could be banned - something I DIDN'T WANT TO HAPPEN!!

The bottom line here, folks, is that MM has been banned, but I'm sure if he wanted to, he could appeal for a lifting of that ban in the future. What's the big deal with that? All of us respect both MM and MT as top-notch players. When MM behaves himself, his playing skills are EXACTLY what MOB wants on their servers. We have a reputation now as having some of the best competition found on UO BA servers each and every night. If anything, we want that reputation to grow, not diminish.

So, PLEASE, lets get beyond the drama!!

This post has been edited by HammaTime: 09/06/06 4:58pm

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

Ok, I should have read everything before I commented. Too late now. Here's my overall impression.

1. MM "may" have been a special case. The problem is, none of this was well communicated to anyone in Regs until after the fact. While the discussions was raging in MOB forums about whether to ban him or not (I guess), all we had was a general forum topic where people did not necessarily know that MM's total ban was being considered.

2. The distinction of MOB and MOB Regs was probably inevitably going to lead to this situation, where we have some MOB saying the Regs are respected, while other tell us to shut our holes (and it has happened long before this thread). And it is inevitable that some Regs focus on the good comments and let the rest roll off their backs, and other Regs focus on the bad comments and feel very insulted by the conscending attitiude and treatment by some MOB. Now, where it goes from here, I am not sure.

3. As pointed out, we did the Samon situation completely dfferently, and his situation was very much the same, because his issues were long standing as well. No matter what anyone says, I see a real contridiction between how two similar situations were handled merely weeks apart.

4. I feel Bar, Druid, and Miked have all made good points. I think others have said things that really insulted me as a Regs. In the end, I'm feeling rather indifferent, but am wondering what is going to be left of this clan in a week or two is someone doesn't try and tighten up the group of those that remain, MOB and MOB Regs alike.

5. Back to the topic, the REAL topic, that I didn't get a chance to fully voice an opinion on. Even though it might not matter, my vote is for a temporary ban to MM of 1 month. This incident, IMO, was more a "tease" than an insult, and hardly deserved a thing, but I subscribe to trying to find a middle of the road solution, so that would be it.

6. Personally, I was just starting to get more involved on Vent, and was going to try and get to know more people because I wanted to join one of the teams. I wonder if I can do that even while voicing an opinion here that doesn't necessarily mesh with others? I don't know. Definately, all this crap is hurting everyone's morale. I suggest again to take that Cassino map, and try and do different things with it for a month, and get feedback, and maybe we'll talk about COD more than internal clan politics for a while.

MoD

[UNDEAD 1]

I'm amazed at this reaction from some of the regs and actually surprised at no reaction from a few others.Ive only been in mob a short while but i can say that whenever a reg had a problem -done! anytime a reg asked for say ,help to put a twl team together-done! the complaint with Samoan came it was posted for regs to vote -done! instead of getting rid of cassino posted with regs-done! the mm vote in mob was unanimous and we still posted it for the regs before a decision was made -DONE!

you know ,druid , bargod and p,and alot of us for that matter have new Born's, children and families, some of us work 2 jobs or jobs that require travel. these guys take soooo much time to help you guys out , fix the serve problems and basically run things so that we can have FUN playing a game in a hack/idiot free environment.

most of us have seen that alot of cod servers don't take this kind of crap and he would've been gone with out a post being written.banned!

for the bss- never was there any insults thrown your way in-fact the post bargod wrote simply said" whoever is joining bss we wish you the best,feel free to drop by" but no there are like 5 separate argument posts!

once again" GOOD LUCK,WE WISH YOU THE BEST-DROP BY AND VISIT SOMETIME"

[Silver]

I will... Thanks UNDEAD1

MOD... MOB has had hell...

BOM <---- MOB spelled backwords and a bunch of idiots
TLD <----- Great bunch of guys and girl.
split from them.. were did FBI come from anywho?

neither here nor there this is the largest MOB has ever been 4 times what it was. so problems like this will happen. no big deal...

[HarryCaray]

I can sum up this topic in the follwing:



This post has been edited by HarryCaray: 09/06/06 7:01pm

[Hellfighter]

I liked MM as a spunky kid, but how many chances can you get? I voted thumbs up for him, but I go with what my companions voted since they were witnessing first-hand his 'transgressions'. If any good has come out of this, I think maybe he's learned a lesson for life - a growing pain.... push your luck at your own risk. In my opinion MT, the key here is as BG said;

.......... Are you familiar with all the times MM has been brought up for bans in the past and we offered "one last chance"?.....

Let's close up this thread; maybe when a newer cod for pc arrives, young MM will be back probably more the wiser in not repeatedly treading on toes.