Truth or Dare, Election Ramifications Options

[Hellfighter]

As you know I'm not pro-Bush on his foreign policies... now that they've got some political clout, will the Dems now ante up and tell us how their influential input will reset the future course in Iraq? I'm thinking not. What are your solutions?

My idea>>> in 1 year US troops should pull out of Baghdad area- then let the Iraqi security forces get a taste for hardcore pulling of their weight. US troops can then deploy along the borders while Iraqi's get school of hard knocks training in large operations by themselves in that area of Iraq. With victories will come confidence. Iraqi citizens will also be getting what most of them hypothesize- US troops out supposedly means a de-escalation of terrorist attacks. As for secterian violence, I don't think US troops can stay in Iraq forever to police that. Sooner or later Iraqis have to sort that out by themselves alone.

[Genocide Junkie]

Why would we pull out of there.... we went in for oil to hear everyone else tell it. I'm still waiting for some sort of policy or idea from the Democrats. All I hear is how bad it's messed up but nothing about how to fix it or why they voted to authorize war to begin with. Just Bush is a liar yada yada yada.... I keep waiting for an idea. Any idea from the Demo's all I ever hear is that the Republicans are doing it wrong.... I wish all the politicians would just go away and replace them with magic 8 balls. We would probably have better representation that way.....

Junkie

[Cpt. Snot Rocket]

So the Dem's get control of the house and senate. Now they can fix everything. LoL

Investors pull out of the market amid luming taxe increases. The economy goes south. We pull out of Iraq, civil war breaks out. War spreads through the Mid-East. Gas prices hit an all-time high. US unemployment skyrockets as more and more illegal aliens become citizens. Welfare programs create more deficit.

A Republican is elected President in 2008. Mark it down.

[Lord Lipton]

So the Dem's get control of the house and senate. Now they can fix everything. LoL

Investors pull out of the market amid luming taxe increases. The economy goes south. We pull out of Iraq, civil war breaks out. War spreads through the Mid-East. Gas prices hit an all-time high. US unemployment skyrockets as more and more illegal aliens become citizens. Welfare programs create more deficit.

A Republican is elected President in 2008. Mark it down.

i'm young and un-knowledgeable but for what i know i agree with Snot. all i ever hear is how bush is terrible, how badly bush has screwed up, and how much someone needs to fix his mistakes. not once have i heard how it'll happen? good point, Mr. Snot.

[T/A6Pak]

I say double dare>>>> Bush is ok, if you like beer:) American beer that is...big smile:)

[Radiation]

Investors pull out of the market amid luming taxe increases. The economy goes south. We pull out of Iraq, civil war breaks out. War spreads through the Mid-East. Gas prices hit an all-time high. US unemployment skyrockets as more and more illegal aliens become citizens. Welfare programs create more deficit.

Vinny man I couldn't have said it better. Oh yeah you forgot social security...

[Genocide Junkie]

We were kissing Clinton's feet while he was busy getting bj's from interns because the economy was so great. Stock market hit 10,000 unemployment was good etc. Forget that it was all gains from the internet bubble that burst because it was over valued. Now we hit 12,000 and nobody hardly mentions it. Not to mention lows in unemployment etc. Now we'll be rewriting laws to subsidise the terrorists who can't afford to come here because dammit they have a right to hate us and we should help them!!! Grrrrrrr.... I'm being silly but it's not that far from the truth. We can't protect ourselvs because someone might be offended or have their phone calls listened to.... grrrrr...

Junkie

[Nothing]

Sorry Guys. Lip, your comment on how it happened? Well, dont you think the President of the most powerful army in the world should have had some definate answers of where the weapons of mass destruction were before goin into Iraq?? Or what about having some type of exit strategy? I really think Bush and his administration has done a piss poor job of running this country. Someone even pointed out in this thread something about the economy going south?? Has it gone North since Bush has been in office? I strongly believe that one a Democrat takes Presidential office, we are going to be headed in the right direction again!

[Hellfighter]

Ok dokey folks.... let's show some constructiveness here; to varying degrees most of us agree the dems have avoided putting forth a concrete plan- a politically wise move so that they don't corner themselves but does reveal shallowness. The tune repubs all choral together 'Stay the course' has no meaning to me either since that apparently equates with staying in Iraq until everything is stable- that realistically could be decades -if ever. Secterian divisions there are seeming to be just starting to ferment what with almost 100 secterian torture murders a week in Iraq now. Iraqi citizens are saying time for US troops to go - my Iraqi friends with relatives there feel the same - no, not out of ungratefullness, but as an alternative which could mean hope compared to the current status of horrible attrition for all innocents -US,+ Allied troops, Iraqi police/security forces, and civilians [possibly 650,000 Iraqi killed so far http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6101001442.html].

I entitled this thread 'truth or dare' poking at dem supporters [I'm barely one].
Truth= now that the elections are over-be honest; you have no workable structured plan you all agree on to finish up in Iraq.
Dare= Be bold and at least put forward such a plan.
The election doesn't actually mean Dems are now obligated to put forward such a plan- but it does mean they can seriously influence however Bush chooses to pursue the war from now on. However- with young and old soldiers dying some on 2nd and 3rd tours, hopefully all the leaders cab get together and give soldiers/their families. and the common Iraqi civilian a vision that they have a clue as to how they'd even possibly like to exit the conflict.

I think that begins with repubs stop mimicking Bush's cliche lines 'stay the course', 'democrats act like they're helping terrorists/dems are unpatriotic', and enough with smug contempt that if you don't see it the repub way, you're a simpleton. Dems need to stop farting about and come up with a focused idea to present to every american instead of sitting on the fence throwing mudpies at every repub mis-step.

So I ask you folks here- let's deal with what ideas YOU propose as an exit strategy - let's analyze here... did you think my 'exit baghdad' idea scatterbrained ? We can keep bashing each other's political affiliations endlessly-that's easy; however let's see what you can come up with; let's assume you've been given the power to stop the madness> what would you do?


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 11/09/06 11:24am

[Nothing]

Hey Hell,

I know what you mean. But honestly, Lets put this in perspective. If you were lets say the Chicago Bears this week. And I was the New York Giants. Would you tell me how to win the game? Would you tell me all my weaknesses? Why would the Dems give the Reps their plans while the Reps are in office? You know that the Reps would only put it down first of all, and if by some chance they did put some of the plan to use they would twist it to make it their supreme plan. The bottom line is the Reps are in office and it is their job to have some exit strategy. Yes, the Dems are still americans and they should be putting forth every effort to end this, but honestly, thats not how politicians work. This would be exactly the same if it were reversed. Now that the Dems have House and Senate, lets see what types of "plans" they propose.


In all Honesty, I dont believe we should have been in Iraq to begin with. What your asking here in my opinion is, the Reps shit on the floor. Lets ask the Dems to clean it up. Its not going to be a clean task. There will be dirty hands for any move anyone makes to clean this up.

[Hellfighter]

Hey Hell,

I know what you mean. But honestly, Lets put this in perspective. If you were lets say the Chicago Bears this week. And I was the New York Giants. Would you tell me how to win the game? Would you tell me all my weaknesses? Why would the Dems give the Reps their plans while the Reps are in office? You know that the Reps would only put it down first of all, and if by some chance they did put some of the plan to use they would twist it to make it their supreme plan. The bottom line is the Reps are in office and it is their job to have some exit strategy. Yes, the Dems are still americans and they should be putting forth every effort to end this, but honestly, thats not how politicians work. This would be exactly the same if it were reversed. Now that the Dems have House and Senate, lets see what types of "plans" they propose.


In all Honesty, I dont believe we should have been in Iraq to begin with. What your asking here in my opinion is, the Reps shit on the floor. Lets ask the Dems to clean it up. Its not going to be a clean task. There will be dirty hands for any move anyone makes to clean this up.

Hey nothing old chum been awhile.
Well I'm asking for speculations here.... we might have a future President in the making here
I think any solution that is feasible MUST be put forth by the Dems or worked on together with the repubs- Yes I agree not showing your 'playmove' is politically a strategic move if the dems actually have a plan.... but waiting 2 years means in the meantime, alot [thousands] of soldiers and Iraqi civilians will be horribly maimed and killed- is that worth the wait?


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 11/09/06 11:51am

[Nothing]

I totally agree with you. Im only pointing out that politicians work differently than what we all believe should be. They honestly know that any plan put forth by Dems will be trampled. They did not have the power to push any plan through. Now that they have House and Senate, lets see what they do with that power. We seen what the Reps did. Now lets see what the Dems do.

[Genocide Junkie]

Do you honestly think we had an "exit" strategy for WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc? Think again. We are STILL IN ALL OF THOSE COUNTRIES!!!!! Do you realize that? It never ends. You think that because we signed a treaty with Germany and the war was "over" that all the guys that were against us just stopped? It amazes me that people think it's like writing a book. Part one drop bombs. Part two use tanks. Part three shake hands. Part four live happily ever after. Do you remember our own history? How long did it take to rid ourselves of tyranny and sort out for ourselves how we would live together? Think about it. How many people died from us killing each other? To think that we could demolish a country and rebuild it completely with a self sustaining "free" government in a matter of a few years is mindless. The republicans from day ONE said it would be hard and take time. And Nothing if you look at unemployment, the stock market, and inflation since Bush has been in office you will see that in fact the economy IS DOING WELL. We keep hearing from the left wing press that a fall is coming a fall is coming.... it's been that way for 3 yrs now. Still hasn't happened.

Junkie

[Nothing]

I totally disagree with you. Our economy has gone to shit since Bush has been in office. Look at the euro vs. the dollar these days. Thats one example. Look at how many companies have closed and all the people that are out of work still now because of it. The economy has only stabled. It has not continuously decreased. Thats it! If you think our economy has increased, what are you basing it on? The alltime low we hit? Do you remember hearing about the surplus the government had? Do you remember getting a refund check from the government. I do. That was stupid to refund that to us. That was his attempt to win over stupid americans for his next election. Our national debt is at an alltime high.

Regarding the exit strategy, All I kept hearing during his running for Presidency on his second term was having an exit strategy. They had an exit strategy that would take time to accomplish. What happened to it? If im right, we have only sent more and more soldiers to Iraq. I dont believe this is comparable to WWII because we were not being told we would be letting their country run themselves and then sending more and more troops. Actually, wasnt the reason we went there to begin with to take our Saddam and find their weapons of mass destruction??? We have no business still being there to run their country. They have their own government in place. We need to let them run it themselves. We cant be the worlds bodyguard on every civil issue in every country in the world.

[Lord Lipton]

if they have nuclear weapons and hate us enough guess what? it gives a perfectly legitimate to go to Iraq and try and secure the nuclear force that can be used against us/other friendly countries.