Truth or Dare, Election Ramifications Options

[Genocide Junkie]

I like cheese.

And by the way my 401k is up 14% for the year and my personal mutual funds not associated with my 401k are up 18% for the year. Plus I've made more this year than I did last year..... looks ok to me. Oh, my house has incrased in value by about 15% in the two years I've been in it as well. We can argue all day long about all this and get no where. I hate both parties simply because neither one is interested in doing anything to correct the problems we have. It boils down to power, influence, money, and getting elected. I'm all for a collection of magic 8 balls replacing our elected officials.

Junkie

[Hellfighter]

It's time we brought this guy out of retirement to save us all.



This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 11/15/06 10:53am

[Major.Pain]

To those that think either party is not doing enough for the economy or the war on terror need to throw a few suggestions out there. We all seem to have the answers and yet none of us do the research necessary to support what we believe. The fact is these are complex times.



Global economy means the US will take a hit financially. Pre-global meant the US had all the power and all the money. That was fine then. It was us against them. The problem is we need them now (them meaning the rest of the world) to manufacture our goods for us because we can't do it cheaply by comparison. The reason we can't is because as individuals we make too much money annually. China's wages are way below ours.



Now here's a shocker...in order for the global economy to balance out, one of 2 things has to happen. Either we take a hit on our wages or China increases theirs. If China raises theirs we pay more for the goods. If we lower ours to make the balance we can't pay our bills. We lose either way. Fact is our arrogance is our own undoing. We seem to think we deserve more. Doesn't work that way anymore. Oddly enough it never should have IMO.



Now the war on terror is just as complex. And we're dealing with non-rational people. People that don't share our values. Should we pull out completely? Was it a mistake to go there to begin with? When they attacked us on our soil should we have said "Shame on you!" ? I don't know about you but I don't have the answers and I wouldn't trade places with anyone that is trying to find those answers. It's a thankless job. Easy for us to sit on our fat asses and play armchair politics because we have nothing to lose. Whole different story when your the one in the hotseat.



These are things I sit and ponder.







-taken from the mindless ramblings of Pain

[Nothing]

Let me touch on housing first. Real Estate is at an all-time low this year. There are many many houses on the market that are not being bought. The reason I know this? My Mother is a real-estate Broker and I just bought a house last month. There are soo many to choose from and all sellers are willing to deal big time. Just because someone gives you an estimate on your house and tells you its increased 15%, try to sell it and let me know if you get near it. I bought my house for 25K under asking price. Its a buyers market now and the prices of houses are dropping badly across the country. Yes, there may be some areas that are making out better than others. I can bet these are probably areas that are building up due to retired people that cant afford their current living style that are building new in a cheap area. I dont consider this a positive in the economy, do you?

Lets now discuss taxes. The problem in this country is not that the people are being taxed too high. The problem is how it is being spent. This war in Iraq is killing us. As our national debt gets higher, and the opinion of our country amoung the rest of the world keeps decreasing, so will the dollars that investors around the world were or used to invest in our economy. The biggest icon to me that tells the story is the value of the dollar around the world. If our tax money was spent properly, we should have no problem to keep knocking down the national deficit. This is what is killing our economy in my opinion.

China increasing their price of goods vs. US lowering ours. I am dealing with this on a daily basis. The reason why we have been buying things so cheap in China is because of the many areas of China that are basically still like small villages. These little towns are where most of the items we are buying are being made from. There is no more people making things cheap in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is built up like crazy. People there are making money similar to most in USA now. Their money flow is increasing out to the rest of China now and the price of things being made there are increasing. I am seeing now a huge decrease of items made in China. In my honest opinion, over the next 10 years, there is going to be a huge shift. Things will start being made from other small countries where the pay will still be low such as Africa or Brazil. Then I would like to see what all these people that are arguing about things made in China will start complaining about. Its almost along the lines of people like eating hamburgers, but hate to see cows slaughtered. If we want certain items here, and want to be able to afford them, they must be made by people that have a much lower economy in order to buy them. Who would want to pay usd800.00 for a cell phone, or usd50.00 for a matchbox car for your kid. If you want these items and many many others to be made here, expect to pay a much higher price for them. And dont think that you will make more so you can pay more, because that will not work. Your pay scale can not buy all the necessities of life that are manufactured by people that have the same pay scale as you.


As far as having answers for what the country should do. There is not much I can do about it. If I were to quit My job and run for office, then maybe I could do something about it. As of now, the only thing I can do about it is to voice my opinion on forums like this and hope that my thoughts will effect the thought of others and maybe be spread across many households. Also, I can vote for someone that is actually running for office that shares similar views as mine. There is no individual that is running for an office that has the same opinion on every value I have, but I must decide which is best. There are views of Reps that I like and there are views of Dems that I like, just the same as there are views of both sides that I dont like. I must therefore choose which one is best. I believe the Dems have more ideas and beliefs that I think will be better for our economy. I think no matter which party is in office, our homeland security will be a high priority so that is not a worry to me. The biggest worry I currently have is the way our country's economy is headed.

[Old Man Mike]

That Deficit vs GDP looks like doom - UNTIL you add the most current information for 2006:

For 2006 the US will be under 3%, primarily due to the TAX CUTS which drastically increased growth and tax revenues.

[/color]

[color="#ff6666"]Nope. US GDP is about 13.600 billion $, trade deficit is ca 800 USD that gives 5,88%. Tax cuts is irrelevant in this matter - its just boosting private consuption (which is good for other matters)





My concern is the Dollar which is our world most important currency. When/If it cracks down you may have a world recession.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/merk/2006/1114.html

Kleerance,

Shame on you switching it from % of GDP to absolute dollars. Reminds me of those that will claim unemployement is up based on the number of people unemployed instead of the percentage of people unemployed. I expected better.

The same point remains:

That Deficit vs GDP looks like doom - UNTIL you add the most current information for 2006:

For 2006 the US will be under 3%, primarily due to the TAX CUTS which drastically increased growth and tax revenues.

Meanwhile France, Germany, Greece and Italy are all expected to exceed the 3% GDP, primarily due to a faltering economic expansion and rising social security spending.


Old Man Mike

[Kleerance]

That Deficit vs GDP looks like doom - UNTIL you add the most current information for 2006:

For 2006 the US will be under 3%, primarily due to the TAX CUTS which drastically increased growth and tax revenues.

[/color]

[color="#ff6666"]Nope. US GDP is about 13.600 billion $, trade deficit is ca 800 USD that gives 5,88%. Tax cuts is irrelevant in this matter - its just boosting private consuption (which is good for other matters)





My concern is the Dollar which is our world most important currency. When/If it cracks down you may have a world recession.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/merk/2006/1114.html

Kleerance,

Shame on you switching it from % of GDP to absolute dollars. Reminds me of those that will claim unemployement is up based on the number of people unemployed instead of the percentage of people unemployed. I expected better.



As you see It's the same chart and the same values, One in percent of GDP -the other one in absolute numbers. Makes no difference - it was actually made to clear it out.

The same point remains:

That Deficit vs GDP looks like doom - UNTIL you add the most current information for 2006:

For 2006 the US will be under 3%, primarily due to the TAX CUTS which drastically increased growth and tax revenues.



I'm sorry Mike I don't understand this; For 2006 US will be under 3% (of what?). And the tax cuts.....Do you mean that more tax cuts gives a narrower trade deficit?



Definition of trade deficit: A trade deficit is the value of a nation’s imports in excess of the value of its exports. As more goods are imported than exported, the currency is leaving the country. If those abroad choose to keep the currency rather than selling it, one says the trade deficit is being “financed.”

Meanwhile France, Germany, Greece and Italy are all expected to exceed the 3% GDP, primarily due to a faltering economic expansion and rising social security spending.


Old Man Mike

[Old Man Mike]

Looks like we have a failure to communicate. One more time in summary form:

Kleerance showed what first appeared to be an alarming chart with US Defict as a percentage of GDP. The chart ended in 2005 with a 6% deficit.

Old Man pointed out that the chart did not have the most current data. The US Deficit as a percentage of GDP will be under 3% for 2006. This improvement is primarily due to the TAX CUTS which drastically increased growth and tax revenues. Meanwhile France, Germany, Greece and Italy are all expected to exceed 3% for their Deficit as a percentage of GDP, primarily due to a faltering economic expansion and rising social security spending.

Kleerance then tried to switch the discussion from Deficit as percentage of GDB to Deficit as dollars only. He even tired to claim that a chart showing deficit only in dollars is the same as a chart showing deficit as a percentage of GDP. If GDP goes up more than deficit dollars goes up, then the percentage goes down.

Old Man said shame on Kleerance for trying to switch the discussion from % of GDP to absolute dollars. Reminds me of those that will claim unemployement is up based on the number of people unemployed instead of the percentage of people unemployed. I expected better.

Old Man Mike

[Wotansvolk]

I'm a noob at that but i have a couple of questions

Looks like we have a failure to communicate. One more time in summary form:

Kleerance showed what first appeared to be an alarming chart with US Defict as a percentage of GDP. The chart ended in 2005 with a 6% deficit.

Old Man pointed out that the chart did not have the most current data. The US Deficit as a percentage of GDP will be under 3% for 2006. This improvement is primarily due to the TAX CUTS which drastically increased growth and tax revenuesHow does tax cut would decrease trade deficit, tax cut give more money to consumer wich will spend more money...but to decrease trade deficit(if i understand the definition of trade deficit) you don't need people in your own country to consume more goods...you need to export more than you import?. Meanwhile France, Germany, Greece and Italy are all expected to exceed 3% for their Deficit as a percentage of GDP, primarily due to a faltering economic expansion and rising social security spending.

Kleerance then tried to switch the discussion from Deficit as percentage of GDB to Deficit as dollars only. He even tired to claim that a chart showing deficit only in dollars is the same as a chart showing deficit as a percentage of GDP.Well don't percentage come from real numbers exportation-importation=trade amount(in dollars) %= ((export- import)*100)/export)Lol maybe i'm totally out of it i just want to say that percentage represent real numbers!LOL If GDP goes up more than deficit dollars goes up, then the percentage goes down. On wikipedia they say GDP represent size of an economy...those it also represent health of the economy??

Don't be to rude with me i tell you i'm a noob i just want to understand!!!

[steel]

One quickie comment on the unemployment statistic. We only count unemployed people based on those who are receiving unemployment benefits. When those benefits run out, those people are no longer counted.

My family lives in rural southern Indiana, where over half of the workers have lost jobs due to manufacturing plants moving overseas. They've long since run out their time on unemployment benefits, although very few have found work at all, and those who have are now working at Walmart-type jobs instead of the decent wages they had before.

So, the current unemployment statistics really don't reflect what's real nor what's happening to the job market.

[Wotansvolk]

One quickie comment on the unemployment statistic. We only count unemployed people based on those who are receiving unemployment benefits. When those benefits run out, those people are no longer counted.

My family lives in rural southern Indiana, where over half of the workers have lost jobs due to manufacturing plants moving overseas. They've long since run out their time on unemployment benefits, although very few have found work at all, and those who have are now working at Walmart-type jobs instead of the decent wages they had before.

So, the current unemployment statistics really don't reflect what's real nor what's happening to the job market.

And i guess illegual immigrant working are not count in that??? Are they?

[Genocide Junkie]

We have a situation where I live where the local Goodyear plant that employs a ton of people is on strike and likely to close over the union wanting more. They have almost mored themselves out of jobs. It amazes me that an unskilled worker is paid 50k (which is a lot here) will go on strike due to "low wages". The problem in America is everyone thinks they deserve to be upper middle class, have a huge home, drive new cars, have everything etc. It's insane how unions have gone beyond their usefulness and now are DRIVING our jobs overseas. Blame it on taxes etc. if you want but when a business has to pay someone here 50k a yr to watch a robot insert a rivet they are going to send it to China..... Not to mention that NO business will locate in my area because it is a UNION town. Forget that we have a great airport, a sufficient workforce, and are located within miles of several auto plants. We can't get ONE industry to come here. Simply because it is a UNION town.... Look no further to find out why our jobs are going to China and Mexico.

Junkie

[steel]

But I thought those Goodyear workers were striking on these two points:

1. Not closing additional US plants.

2. No further reductions on retirement medical benefits.

By the way, upper middle class is defined in our economy as $250,000 per year, not $50K!!!

It's so funny to me, the tax cuts go to those who earn more than $250,000 per year. The "death tax" or estate tax, only affects those who are leaving an estate of more than $10Million dollars. Yet, we all are so easily lead to think those things apply to people earning or leaving behind less than this. I simply don't get it.



And no, illegal immigrants are not counted in any unemployment statistics.

[steel]

Also, industries are not coming to your state no matter what infrastructure you have. Those auto companies can get "rivets watched" as you put it, for $1,000 per year someplace else and yet sell their product back here in the US for the same or higher price, netting a bigger profit share, bottom line. Fat cats get richer, the little guy gets pushed down into poverty-wage jobs when their jobs dry up. But the larger profits makes the stock market rise. That's the truth about the global economy and capitalism. That's why the divide in our country between the rich and poor is getting bigger, ergo more unrest.

And that's precisely why our politicians keep debating things like gay marraige and crap like that, to get us to vote against our own family's and country's futures.

[Glyn Gardner]

Hey Steel,

The loss of bennies you were mentioning your company is feeling, are those because your company isn't able to make as much, or pay for as much? I ask this, because most places I've worked we see that. Only to find out the the "golden parachutes" are getting bigger, and the raises for the leadership are increasing. I mention that because, and stick with me here, most raises are based on % right? Now, lets say you make that 50K. Now your CEO and CFO make 500K. Board of directors make 350K, and VP's make 300K Now give everyone a 5% raise. You get 52.5K, CEO/CFO 525K, BoD 367.5K, and VP's 315K. So the "flunkies get 2,500 extra a year. between the CEO,CFO, lets say 7 BoD, and 6 VP's make a total of 262,500 per year. Boy that is a lot of grunt raises. See how that can work against you in the long run? The guys at the top ARE going to get their raise, even if you don't.

[steel]

My CEO's annual salary is $1.25 million per year. He and all upper level manager's salary annual increases are set in stone, in both cash, raises, and stock options, they get it no matter what. And so forth on down to us regular employees.

We are supposed to get a bonus, based on an un-understandable equation (it's sort of Return on Investment versus cost of business and a bunch of mumbo-jumbo) that's so far never gone positive, then it is multiplied by a percent of company earnings and then multiplied by our yearly salaries.

It so far has consistantly meant nothing for anyone below upper management, but tons of money for everyone higher-up.

My company is doing gang-busters, and a big buy-out is in the wings with senior management and above guaranteed millions each if the deal goes through, nothing for the workers.