You cant kill a feeling Options

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The phrase "War on Terror" is stupid. Terror is a tactic, not an enemy. How do you make war without a defined enemy? That's how we ended up in Iraq. No defined enemy so everyone is fair game. If we make the whole world our enemy, then we are the terrorists.

DaN

[Genocide Junkie]

The phrase "War on Terror" is stupid. Terror is a tactic, not an enemy. How do you make war without a defined enemy? That's how we ended up in Iraq. No defined enemy so everyone is fair game. If we make the whole world our enemy, then we are the terrorists.

DaN

Maybe we should try to negotiate with these people instead. I'm sure someone willing to strap explosives to themselves and go into a market is a reasonable person willing to compromise.

Junkie

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Maybe we should try to negotiate with these people instead. I'm sure someone willing to strap explosives to themselves and go into a market is a reasonable person willing to compromise.

Junkie
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Who are "these people"? Many people faced with a seemingly hopeless situation will lash out in anger at whoever they perceive to be responsible. BTW there were no suicide bombings in Iraq before we got there, and none of the terrorist attacks against Americans were done by Iraqis. We should be at war with Al Qaeda not with "these people".

[Hellfighter]

stupid me, i like being on the other side and trying to kill hamma, bit of a challenge. Hellfighter, im not trying to argue with you, you make very good points and I understand what your trying to say. Maybe i missled you. no, not all iraq's are bad, not all are good, and that goes for every country. I read another post where you were talking about the terrorist and getting them out, alqida(can't spell) thats what im talking about. im not in the military, i play way too much video games, do i wish for world peace, sure, and i also wish for a million bucks. Peace isn't going to happen until either everone is killed or armageddon witch we probably won't see in a million years. Yea, war sucks, especially when we have soldiers coming home in body bags, but that is war if im not misstaken. Civil war, family members killing family members, i just wonder if it was talked about back then like war is today(granted different time frame). In all seriousness, what are you thought on them hanging Sadam today, i would be interested to read your thoughts on it.

Well reading my every other post you know I have a "no prisoners" attitude to terrorists. My only issue is the lashing out at people who have zilch to do with terrorists- and lashing out at people who have done no harm to those lashing out- no I'm not talking about those in war mistakenly tragically caught in the midst of bombs striking a military target as lashing out. Like I said my kind Iraqi friends have equally kind family members fretting if the next day will be their last. 'Kill them all' is genocide... look at pics of piles of bodies/mass graves from genocides in Rwanda, Balkans, Cambodia, Holocaust... I can only believe those events could only happen with a detached 'kill them all' de-humanized mentality.

I'm not trying to argue with you too either cero or make spiteful personal attacks since I think you said your remark out of frustration perhaps, and not out of a sincere wish that should actually happen. But I like to interject whenever I hear anyone make a comment like that about any group either online, or in real life.

Regarding Saddam hanging... I've seen many people being really hanged on tv/online, some 'civilised' executions and others ruthless. Most made me naturally repulsed but a few like the Nuremberg hangings of Nazi War criminals didn't stir an ounce of pity from me. With Saddam, initially I reflected on the chaotic scene and a gang of informally burly figures sending him to his drop. Initially the scene looked pathetic and wretched for a 70 year old to end his days. But I balanced that by thoughts of seeing on tv the mass executions by Saddam of his former generals, civilians, peasants... they too had a wretched end- often with onlookers forced to applaud after! So I multiply those scenes by over 300,000 - the # of Iraqi lives he and his sons directly had a hand in grinningly ordered being put to death. And none of them had the luxury of a trial- not to mention their only crime was being Shiite, kurd, or someone considered a threat to the State and their executions/murders were instant- no time to say goodbye to loved ones.

What really shook me out of the sombreness of the hanging happened recently. We learned about the secretive phone movies taken of the execution and the taunts before the drop. While that repulsed many in the world to me, one taunt clarified the whole thing for me. I'll quote the scene

In the latest video footage of the execution, apparently captured on a mobile phone and now spreading across the Internet, Shiite witnesses to Saddam's hanging can be heard chanting "Moqtada, Moqtada, Moqtada!

The reference is to Moqtada al-Sadr, a radical Shiite cleric whose uncle Mohammed Bakr Sadr was murdered by Saddam's agents, and who has risen to prominence since Saddam's fall as a politician and militia leader.

One of the execution party calls: "Long live Mohammed Bakr Sadr!"

[I think the cleric's sister was murdered at the same time too] note I have no symphathy for the nephew who is currently acting like a warlord, but I'm focusing more on the uncle who was brutally murdered.

With that I felt justice was served... Saddam dropping down not with cocky last thoughts, but thinking of how he was getting a fitting end for at least one person of his hundreds of thousands of victims who he likely laughed at about murdering. So what do I think-> Justice served with a side dish of deserved belittling by those he once terrorised.

This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/03/07 8:24pm

[Cero]

what i don't understand is one thing. ok, we are at war and are in iraq trying to get/kill the terrorist. In the process, got sadam out of power and then handed him over to the iraq's. They did there trial thing and hung him. Then in the paper, im reading how some Iraq's( it did say iraq's, i checked to make sure it didn't say something else) are are saying that they are going to do what ever it takes to do harm to america. We are not the one's who hung him. Granted, we found him, and for the fact that he was hiding in that little hole of his, he did something really wrong. If he didn't, why would he hide. Someone before said it based on religion and the more i read, the more i think its true.

[Genocide Junkie]

I was bothered by the way the execution was conducted. This should have been done by individuals who would have said or done nothing except to read him what ever is required and let him have his final say. Then they should have hung him, taken down the body, and had him burried. The dancing and carrying on makes it look like revenge instead of justice. No matter the reality perception is reality.

Junkie

[T/A6Pak]

I was bothered by the way the execution was conducted. This should have been done by individuals who would have said or done nothing except to read him what ever is required and let him have his final say. Then they should have hung him, taken down the body, and had him burried. The dancing and carrying on makes it look like revenge instead of justice. No matter the reality perception is reality.

Junkie

I personally think he got off easy in comparison to all the killings and torture he did. As far as I am concerned those related to the one's he killed should have got to do the same to him first...stick him with tiny pins....pull off his finger nails then his fingers one by one. He did not suffer... hanging, he probably was dead within 2 mins. The only thing I am sure of is that he went straight to hell!!!!

[Genocide Junkie]

I agree that's what he deserved but that's not what is going to help bring peace and stability to that region. It needed to be done with the same indifference you would have smashing a bug. The rest only brings more questions and resentment to an already tense situation. However, this was the business of the IRAQI'S not the U.S. so they are free to conduct themselves as they see fit. I just wish it wasn't at our expense.

There's no doubt he's already spent eternity over eternity over eternity burning in hell and still has no less time there. Unfortunately it doesnt take being a dictator bent on genocide to get to hell. I have no doubt he's paying for his sins.

Junkie

[Hellfighter]

what i don't understand is one thing. ok, we are at war and are in iraq trying to get/kill the terrorist. In the process, got sadam out of power and then handed him over to the iraq's. They did there trial thing and hung him. Then in the paper, im reading how some Iraq's( it did say iraq's, i checked to make sure it didn't say something else) are are saying that they are going to do what ever it takes to do harm to america. We are not the one's who hung him. Granted, we found him, and for the fact that he was hiding in that little hole of his, he did something really wrong. If he didn't, why would he hide. Someone before said it based on religion and the more i read, the more i think its true.

Well Cero I think we have to remember Iraq was a nation whose boundaries were drawn up by the colonial Brits way back irregardless of the major group ethno-religious divides and issues they had with each other. The 'some Iraqis' you refer to aren't the majority in my opinion from what I see- even though they may be a very significant number of Iraqis who 'threaten' to harm America. I think much of it is brow-beating comments and they have no intention of actually coming here to do violence- or getting vapourized in the process. I think as a whole these individuals want to run/ruin there own 'nation' without the presence of coalition forces to interfere with their fundamentalist goals over their majority of fellow Iraqis who I think prefer a western-IZED-style society.
I always thought a nade dropped in Saddam's spiderhole at that time would've been more appropriate to clean things up. Now he has some martydom attached to him since he didn't go kicking and screaming to the gallows, and in fact counter-taunted the guards.


ps. Pardon my fussiness , but like the saying goes in an old Western I saw,
'Meat gets hung... People get HANGED.' Hanged is the term for those who were executed by hanging.

Like 6-pak says he got off 'lightly'... that 'snapping drop' hanging is instant unconsciousness and near instant death. That being said and not wanting to appear too cold-blooded [too much] I do wish everyone in the world just got along and live and let live.

This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/04/07 12:48pm