An Inconvenient Truth, A movie on the topic of Global warming. Options

[Angus Thermopyle]

The 'debate' is over... any questioning of what is 'fact' is gone within scientific community. A few weeks ago even the UN issued a press release with part of the abstract below, which was almost laughable within the scientific community. This is generally accepted and no press release is required. But there it is.

UN http://unfccc.int/2860.php Full text.

"Against the background of the most conclusive scientific evidence to date that the warming of the climate system is unequivocal and accelerating" UNFCCC Executive Secretary, Feb 2, 2007.

I have read that thing. Read it carefully, note that certain verbage is inconsistent and lacking in many key areas. That is quite strange to me for a document that has been through probably hundreds of revisions.



I am no expert when it comes to global warming but it seems like there is some evidence that it may be occurring. The problem that I see is that the science behind the cause is flawed and is being misused for political reasons. They can't tell what the weather is going to be like tomorrow with much certainty yet the UN/Al Gore is able to define exactly what is causing global warming and how it will affect the earth in the next 20-50 years? The Farmer's almanac has a similar track record.



Beyond the alarmist calls to action, no one has a solution. Why? Because they don't know how to fix it. That is pretty solid evidence that they don't know what causes it. They also don't know if it can be fixed at all or is just one of many documented swings in temperature on the earth throughout history.



Even funnier is that the skeptics are being fired. Talk about intolerance of alternate ideas.

[T/A6Pak]

[HammaTime]

LOL!! Shar, you always have a great perspective. Oh man, you crack me up!!!

[-priority(+)target-]

LOL grim... Too much fire and brimestone for me!

I reread the article, and found the verbage consistent and concise.
The good thing is that we need some to start acting now, others can wait until they are sure, and act later.

Cheers,
SH

This post has been edited by some_help: 02/26/07 3:51pm

[Cpt. Snot Rocket]

LOL Shar! That ghas to be one of the funniest posting I've seen in a loooong time!

The biggest problem in understanding global temperature trends and what effects it, is that there is just not enough data. Mankind has had the ability to measure and record temperatures in SOME areas for maybe 75 years. Other areas maybe 30 years. That is NOT a lot of data points.

The one thing I am not blind to is that most scientist have an aganda. Whether it is making a case for grant money, research funds, being paid by certain institutes (one scientist already confessed he doctored evidence in favor of global warming), or simply protecting ones own fawlty research.

What amazes me is that not one person has commented about any of the points I refuted about Big Al's movie.

[HammaTime]

With all due respect, Vinny, your observation about the lack of "data points" for temperature readings sounds about as ignorant as someone who stands outside and says, "I can see all the way to the horizon, the earth must be flat."

Vinny, I challenge you to watch the movie before making any more of these kinds of statements. At the very least, familiarize yourself with the basic science involved in temperature reconstruction from isotopes of oxygen and hydrogen trapped in ice and you will quickly learn how scientists can indeed calculate temperatures dating back 650,000 years. Cores have been drilled that have preserved ice dating back 800,000 years but they are still working on analyzing that data.

The basic premise is that heavier isotopes, with an extra hydrogen neutron or oxygen with an extra one or two neutrons, precipitate out of the atmosphere at a faster rate at lower temperatures. By examining the ratio of heavy to light isotopes found in ice cores drilled out of ancient ice it is relatively easy to determine the temperature at the time the ice was formed. So, we have a basic "natural thermometer" built right into the ice.

And before you say "voodoo science," let me assure you that this is very, very basic stuff that has been thoroughly tested. All one has to do is to use your old trusty mercury thermometer to measure the temperature trends over a couple of years and then compare the isotopes found in the ice formed during those years.

And trust me, there is absolutely nothing political about an isotope!

[Spartan]

"I can see all the way to the horizon, the earth must be flat."

HammaTime Ownage proof. Woot woot.

[Shred and Burn]

Guys, there is no such thing as Global Warming. Except what occurs in nature.

97% of greenhouse gases occur naturally, mostly as water vapor.

Of the remaining 3% most is carbon dioxide which is given off by "plants" during photosynthesis.

Most scientists agree that the earth has risen in temperature 1 degree in the last 100 years.

Truthfully, we have only been able to monitor temperature accurately since the 1970's with satellites.

A lot of the data used to support the global warming myth comes from Accuweather. Needless to say, most of the readings come frome cities which give off the "heat island effect" or places where people live. Cities give off heat. Nobody cares what the temp is in the Mojave desert, Greenland or places where there aren't people. Thus, no readings there.

I won't babble on. But it is a myth.


This post has been edited by Shred and Burn: 02/27/07 12:34am

[-priority(+)target-]

CO2 is natuarly occuring but is used as an input to photsythesis (used by plants) the waste given off is O2 (lucky us). Greenhouse gases are 'naturally occurring', h2o or h2o vapour is not considered a greenhouse gas. The image below is a chart of CO2 atmospheric concentrations for the last 1000 years... it speaks volumes about what is happening.

Temperatures... see hamma's post above, we know quite a bit about the historical temperatures of the planet, particularily the last 1000 years.

You guys actually don't believe global warming is happening? You are just debating to debate? This is taught in grade 8 or 9 or something... like the periodic table, and plate tectonics...

The link below is a really interesting site that talks pretty direct about the science in laypersons terms and also discusses solutions... Should check it out, I hope it helps provide some further insight into what is happening, at least it may provide another perspective for you.

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/Climate_Change/Science/

This post has been edited by some_help: 02/27/07 1:33am

[HammaTime]

I think it is hilarious how a nation that can make a show like CSI a number one television hit, chokes on the concept of mass spectrometry when it is applied to earth science.

Gee, when a forensic scientist uses the mass spectrometer to determine that there was blood at a crime scene, that wasn't visible to the naked eye, we gobble it up as mass entertainment. Those findings have long been accepted by our courts as viable, and acceptable evidence. But when science turns its instruments to small gas bubbles trapped in ice, we've got BIG problems that are caused by guys named Al.

[Shred and Burn]

I would also point out that it is perfectly natural for the Earth to get Warmer and Cooler over time.

If you look at the Pleistocene period, the Earth became very warm due to ocean currents / activity.


This post has been edited by Shred and Burn: 02/27/07 8:37am

[Genocide Junkie]

Would anyone disagree that humans can neither create nor destroy matter?

[Kleerance]

I find it strange that some people in this forum don't believe that global warming is actual happening, despite of what so many experts and scientists claim. I wonder why. Try "global warming" at google.

In Europe there is a big concern about the melting of ice in the North Pole. The gulf stream passes through our coasts and keep our climate warm (in relative matters). If (or when) the Ice at Greenland and the north pole melts we will have a destruction/another path of this stream. Norway is roughly in the same latitude as Baffin Island/Bay in Canada. There is no warm gulf stream there - and that's the climate we will have in Europe. Gives me the creeps - anyone seen "The day after tomorrow"? (No comparasiation btw)

[UNDEAD 1]

see this is the problem with the us as were the only ones still debating , most other countries have accepted the OBVIOUS . you say humans cant destroy matter? wtf is that,we are completely destroying our habitat .

[T/A6Pak]

I think everyone realizes that Globar warming is occurring, the debate appears to revolve around whether this is due to the natural elements vs human contribution. I find it interesting to read others opinions as it educates our minds and opens the doors for future solutions .

If you want the correct answer, be here in two hundred years:)

T/A6Pak