Attitude !! ??, Attitude !! ?? Options Rating

[Clancey]

I don't think MOB should ban members for expressing their opinions.

In this case, Simbumgowa expressed some disappointment with Steel and the way the MWCM server is run. Not everything he said was negative. He also stated "I play MWCM all the time and this server is one of the best out there and made me want to join MOB in the first place" and "PS I think you do a good job Steel running this server".

Steel provided some background which hardly any of us are aware of (unless you're an Admin) and corrected him on all his points. I would think that (if he had not been banned so quickly) Simbumgowa may have posted an apology. I think Simbumgowa was not tactful, Steel overreacted, and we banned a REGS member too quickly.

This is the MOB Community, we should all try to work together. Maybe their should be a process (full MOB member Committee) to decide on server modifications and bans - this would take the heat off of an individual. Maybe that's too democratic.

[Old Man Mike]

In this case, Simbumgowa expressed some disappointment with Steel

Some disappointment? Telling her that she "SUCKS" is too much disrespect to ignore. This person was a new Reg and has just demonstrated too much immaturity and disrespect for this Clan. The Ban will stay.

Old Man Mike

[Crazy Canuck]

In this case, Simbumgowa expressed some disappointment with Steel

Some disappointment? Telling her that she "SUCKS" is too much disrespect to ignore. This person was a new Reg and has just demonstrated too much immaturity and disrespect for this Clan. The Ban will stay.

Old Man Mike

if anybody else has any opinions or concerns regarding anything to do with MOB, I suggest you tuck it away and slink on!



Steele,

2 people shared their opinion on the way the server is run. It's quite obvious they don't know what their talking about. Your server is ranked number 1.....you must be doing something right! These are two people with obviously no idea the time and effort you put in to keep things at tip top shape. like others have said, don't walk away because of the ignorant 5%. MWCM is your baby and 95% of us recognise your dedication and time put in making it the attraction it is today, not to mention all the other endevours you assist in administrating here on a daily basis. For that we are all greatful!

[Crystarion]

First off, Simbumgowa was not saying that Steel wasn't doing a good job because she is/was. The problem was that she has been making changes arbitrarily without even posting on the website to see if any other MEMBERS wanted those particular changes. Simbumgowa was not attacking Steel per sey, but frankly her attitude has come across as fairly caustic at times, she comes across sometimes as taking everything said as a personal attack. I noticed this from our very first posting to join the Clan, by her calling me liar about our IP address's, which quite frankly I didnt appreciate at all. Even after Old Man Mike pointed out the address's WERE different, no apologies were forth comming. Any work that was needed to seperate his stats from mine was never mentioned to me.



I've been a member of various guilds in different games such as Everquest, Vanguard, LoTR and others so I know that there will be times when guild members rub each other the wrong way, folks having a bad day, kid's cryin, boss being a prick, ect. But in every guild, a member was allowed to get on the forums and vent their frustration, which would hopefully lead to a discussion and then to a solutition. I have gotten to know a few guild admins quite well and everyone of them has said that being an admin, lead to their loss of interest in playing that particular game. If only because there are those people who, because the Net is anonymous, feel they can be as nasty as they want to be without any real risk to themselves and are willing to act like a$$holes. After all the idea behind playing a game is to be able to kickback, relax and enjoy yourself, which is hard to do when you got all kinds of people bitchin and complaining at you the minute you login. I've been a guild officer myself and have experienced firsthand the complaints, out & out bitchin and whining from guild members or from other people contacting our guild about the actions of a member. Its not fun at all and I have been in guilds that have collapsed due to an over abundance of these actions, because the leadership got tired of dealing with it day in and day out.





But this is the first time I have ever seen a member kicked out of a guild for voicing his/her opinion, especially before being allowed any kind of rebuttal. Its not as if Sim had gone on some wild rant and was way out of bounds with his comments. Again if you reread the post there was NO personal attack intended. When he tried to login to check his thread and couldn't, Sim contacted me and told me that you not only kicked him out of the Clan but that you've gone so far as to ban him from the servers as well? I have to say that this is VERY disturbing to me, if only because I don't see where his post was so out of line as to merit that kind of draconic action against him.





It's bad enough that Steel refused to even create a dialog over this thread but just up and quit, rather then rationaly attempt to work through this problem and try to come to a workable solutition. As far as I know, Simbumgowa was not trying to rip into Steel or the Clan in a vicious manner, just the opposite, he was only trying to point out actions that he felt were detrimental to the server. As I was not logged in at the time I have no reference to the incident Sim/Steel mentioned concerning what was said in game so I wont go into that. What I dont understand from reading the replies is the hostility towards Simbumgowa, its not as if what he wrote was a cruel, vicious attack against Steel, but he obviously felt hurt by what had happened and was expressing his feelings. Is that not allowed here?



After seeing Steel's post regarding the ingame dialog, if she had simply wrote the meaning of her ingame reply and moved on I wouldn't have wasted the last hour or so writing this post. But instead she went off on a tangent how she'd done this and that and COMPLETELY missed the point. Sim was not complaining about the work she was doing on the server merely HOW she was going about it, which I too was trying to point out in my post as well.



As I mentioned before, I've been in a management position both in game and in real life and I know just how impossible and frustrating it is to try and make everyone happy.



Having said that, I would hope after spending a little time cooling off and reflecting over the past few weeks, that Steel will realize that shes very much a valued member but that shes been under a lot of stress(?) and maybe just needs a little time to decompress. Hopefully after doing so, she'll realize that while we may not understand just what all she does behind the scenes, and therefore are unable to acknowledge just how much work she does. That at least she'll come to understand that it wasnt the work she was doing that aggravated some of us. Merely that WE as clan members were not allowed to give our input to her ideas before substantial changes were made that had such a dramatic impact on the server we love to play so much.







If you feel my posts here merits banning me from Clan and servers also, well thats up to you. One of the reasons I wanted to join MOB Regs was the sense of community and family I felt while playing MWCM, if this is no longer the case and members are not going to be allowed to voice their concerns and opinions then you might as well cancel my membership as well.



I thank you for all the fun and hope the fun continues for you all



Crystarion







P.S. Since Old man Mike has already dropped Simbumgowa from the forums & servers (permanently?), Sim has asked me to say goodbye for him to T/A6pak, Undead, Pablodiablo, RacerX, Overheated, Goose, Little 'ol man and the rest of the Clan who accepted him and played along with him on the various servers. Once again he wants people to know that at NO time was his post ment to be constured as an attack against Steel personally. That in fact he has nothing but respect and appreciation for the hard work she does which is why he made the donatation when he did in order to help her cover the cost of adding slots to the MWCM server before she moved it and even hopes that she'd reconsider her stance on quiting. But after my reading to him the replys to his post, he is very disappointed at the hostil reaction of people over his attempt to simply voice his concern over the actions of another Clan member, not to mention having been banned for simply posting his viewpoint in a Member only section of the Clan forum he is/was a member of.



This post has been edited by Crystarion: 06/09/07 4:20pm

[Genocide Junkie]

In this case, Simbumgowa expressed some disappointment with Steel

Some disappointment? Telling her that she "SUCKS" is too much disrespect to ignore. This person was a new Reg and has just demonstrated too much immaturity and disrespect for this Clan. The Ban will stay.

Old Man Mike

if anybody else has any opinions or concerns regarding anything to do with MOB, I suggest you tuck it away and slink on!



Steele,

2 people shared their opinion on the way the server is run. It's quite obvious they don't know what their talking about. Your server is ranked number 1.....you must be doing something right! These are two people with obviously no idea the time and effort you put in to keep things at tip top shape. like others have said, don't walk away because of the ignorant 5%. MWCM is your baby and 95% of us recognise your dedication and time put in making it the attraction it is today, not to mention all the other endevours you assist in administrating here on a daily basis. For that we are all greatful!

I don't think the issue is with voicing an opinion. It's with the way some people choose to do it. Openly telling a full MOB member they suck in open forums is not acceptable behavior from anyone. To direct it at yet another person who pours themselves into our servers is again poor judgement. Soon we'll be placing ads in the want ads for an admin because we can't pose a question to them without belittleing them. Perhaps when we learn to do that THEY will quit slinking away.

Crysterion, there have been issues that lead up to this that you nor sim were probably aware of. Through no fault of your own what might have been a smaller issue has become magnified by the sum of others as well. I think after a cool off everyone (hopefully) can work things out.

This post has been edited by Genocide Junkie: 06/09/07 5:20pm

[Crystarion]

[/quote]

I don't think the issue is with voicing an opinion. It's with the way some people choose to do it. Openly telling a full MOB member they suck in open forums is not acceptable behavior from anyone. [/quote]





No offence but once again he did not say she "sucked" and he did not post it in the open forum.

What he said was that her "attitude" was, well you know, and he posted in the member only section so as not to let it out in open forums. Had he been given a chance most likely he would have appolgised for the strong language. One other thing you might want to know, Tim is a blunt straight forward kind of person, as you may have noticed, also being a member here was his first experience in being a part of an online communitiy. So if he was a little rough around edges well none of us are perfect and theres a learning curve to every life experience.



Could he have handlled it better? Perhaps, at least he could have used a little more tact, but frankly I dont want to see anyone who hasn't gamed with him or talked to him on Vent post anything negitive that they dont have first hand knowledge of. Just ask the regular MWCM players and they will tell you that Sim was as fun loving and good hearted person to play with as you'd like to see in game.





Crystarion

[Shred and Burn]

I've played with Sim and heard him on vent, never had a problem with him.

Obviously, it's not a good thing to tell a senior MOB member (who is an admin) that her attitude sucks in a forum.

There is no way to justify that.

Send a pm and resolve it for crying out loud. I certainly don't want to know about it.

We are lucky to have the admins that we do. And I am not going to stand for people criticizing them when they are doing work that they don't have to do in the first place.

I am tired of the personal attack crap that has been going on in the forums lately.

Everybody just chill out, have a frosty, get a snack and have fun gaming. We are all friends here.

[Major.Pain]

What he said!



-Pain

[MyWifesMule]

Corporal
Group Icon

Group: {MOB} Regs
Posts: 45
Joined: September 19th 2005
From: Ashburn VA
Member No.: 1353f



"I don't think MOB should ban members for expressing their opinions."

Clancey, I believe you about summed it up.

If I remember correctly, this is still a free society, where someone can voice their opinions in an open forum, right or wrong. Or am I mistaken??

Its true, i'm only a "Reg", a second class citizen, a bottom feeded, who along with my fellow Reg brethren are not worthy to be "FULL" members of a clan, but who pay for a large part of the servers and, if my math is correct, outnumber "full" MOB 5 to 1.

I've been around long enough in this crazy world to know when to talk and when to listen. I guess its time for me say something of substance, for what its worth.

"It's quite obvious they don't know what their talking about. Your server is ranked number 1"

Steel, I think you do an outstanding job for this community and I appreciate all your hard work and efforts as I think all of us do, but please don't go off into a hissy fit because of what one or two people say or don't say about "your" mod.

If you want, I also will "hereby quit {MOB}[Regs], effective immediately, for voicing my opinion.

What say ye, yea or nay.

[UNDEAD 1]

ok before we start banning new regs and stringing them up and beating them please listen to my post. when we picked up mwcm it has always been that mwcm was a seperate entity imo because when i started palying there alot , i noticed it is its own clan of regulars . we brought in a few guys who were responsible regulars of the server who had interest in mob . thing is ,ive noticed how things work there steel plays and asks what people want and if every one agrees wala its there,this is why its succesful ! always a great map rotation,any problems shes on it asap and no jerk offs there ,except myself, so very little prolems.the fact remains though that very little regulars of the server come here,why should they?



sim deserves an opinion but messed up a few ways-

1. he shouldve wrote this in a pm

2.he worded it wrong because he was obviously frustrated .

3. never post anything to another player when a) pissed off OR extremely intoxicated and from canada



although its an mob server ,this is an mwcm problem and it should be worked out between sim and steel or maybe i dont know what im talking about? one thing that has bothered me the last couple weeks is when im on mwcm i know alot of the guys dont know im there and while talking i hear some of them complaining about the changes , i have heard on at least 3 ocasions from non regs " ever since mob took over the server THEY have made all the wrong changes" i actually set a guy staight friday morning as to ,YOU made the changes ,the players here along with steel have made the changes as you went......NOT MOB. so what im saying is i can understand the post but he shouldve been more constuctive rather than so aggresive. i really wish steel wouldnt leave and would rap with the two of them and work this out ,the servers almost back and i believe alot of the changes are for the better.



i think we should ease up a bit ,take a deep breath and be a little rational-every one makes a mistake !

[Old Man Mike]

Well,

This is not about MOB vs Regs. It is about thinking before typing. It is beyond me how anyone in the MOB family can start a thread claiming someone has a "attitude that SUCKS". But when that claim is directed to someone that has worked so hard for the clan to provide a #1 rated server, a response IS required.

Was a total BAN extreme? Yes, because the impact of Simbumgowa' thoughtless post was extreme. Steel is not replaceable.

Tell you what, I will unban Simbumgowa long enough for him to make whatever response he wants. If Steel can be pursuaded to come back, then she can unban him.

Finally, I am dissapointed that some of you want to make this about "Freedom of Speech". Initiating a verbal attack on someone in a public (yeah, it is public to 150 people) forum is NOT a freedom of speech issue.

Old Man Mike

[UNDEAD 1]

believe me mike , im not trying to say he was right in any way with what he posted , theres better ways to deal with it . i really dont know the history between the 3 of them or if they have one?

[Crazy Canuck]

my post did come off as a bit of a cheap shot and for that i apolagise!

In an attempt to avoid any futher trouble that will be my last post for a while.

[Cpt. Snot Rocket]

And if this gets me ban or kicked so be it but (STEEL YOUR ATTITUDE SUCKS )

Thanks Sim

Funny how he wasn't complaining about Steel not running everything past him while she built it into the #1 server in the world.



He was expecting it, so the ban stays, forever.

[UNDEAD 1]

guys before we start yelling again ....they thought they would have a say about changes being they are regs but thats not how it works for mwcm,is it? he wrote his post and im hoping they can talk this out ,lets not add fuel to the fire.