Global Warming, the Great Lifesaver, More die from excess cold than heat Options

[T/A6Pak]

so you question that man has not messed with our enviromet ,its just a cycle? amarica is the only one whos still debating (including our two republican friends) its not just emmisions but as a whole we are screwing our childrens future . its all about the here and now-lets spray pesticides now so we can have decent crops even though its poison to ingest and has tainted the soils in amarica to the point where there is not one body of water ,river or stream that isnt tainted-were fine now but our kids will have to deal with that . lets cut all the trees down for building or palm farms for fuel now because WE dont have to worry about it ,our kids wont need a rain forrest or everglades ,wet lands etc...in some places theres so much garbage buried theres no where else to put it . all of this combined alon with emissions is killing this planet. if you dont want to believe it ,shore , you can find 1000s of links to back yourself up buuuut-



what if you debators are wrong? i guess it wont matter because when it really gets bad youll be dead and the next generation will have to deal with it .the technology is there and CHEAP why not utilize it to try and help rather than argue? i agree with some help ,it would be nice if you could not smell smog or if your hiking far from where man lives you could drink from the stream .christ i caught a massive bass in the everglades and had to throw it back-not eat it- because its a known fact the mercury levels are extremely toxic (sugar mills).we always wait till alot of people die before passing a law to change something -FACT- this isnt something were going to be able to change .

mod 2012 is end of all days-its a clander year the aztecs have chose . ive actually watched a segment on history channel which was interesting.

I've noticed some large spiders around my house lately. I was going to get a spider killer spray to kill these ugly nasty spiders once and for all. Will this be okay, or will I be contributing to Global Warming.....

Well, either way.. those spiders are going down!!!!

[UNDEAD 1]

from what ive read in the begining it wuld be good ,with the exception of the folks that live in the warmer areas.my dad loves it in maryland because he plays golf nearly year round but what happens when the crops dry up? massive drought? i know for a fact the entire west depends on the winters in the mid west for waters from the colorado river (not just for rafting,hehe) but their seasons are not the same these days and the snows are coming a little later.

[shazbot]

Didn't miss the point of the guy's book at all. More warm equals more life just doesn't work. More heat = more fresh water in oceans = ocean currents are ruined = life cycles in oceans upended = less food for people = more dead people, but at least they'll be warm. Larger animals and plants really doesn't work either. For animals (or humans) to evolve or adapt it takes thousands of years not the tens of years that will be needed to survive the heat up on the way. Maybe Mr. Lomburg is as much of a scientist as i and i'm a graphic designer. The Danish government had this say about his his first book:

Objectively speaking, the publication of the work under consideration is deemed to fall within the concept of scientific dishonesty. ...In view of the subjective requirements made in terms of intent or gross negligence, however, Bjørn Lomborg's publication cannot fall within the bounds of this characterization. Conversely, the publication is deemed clearly contrary to the standards of good scientific practice.

The DCSD cited The Skeptical Environmentalist for:
Fabrication of data;
Selective discarding of unwanted results (selective citation);
Deliberately misleading use of statistical methods;
Distorted interpretation of conclusions;
Plagiarism;
Deliberate misinterpretation of others' results.

Hard to think that this guy all of a sudden became a "real" scientitist in the interm.

http://www.lomborg-errors.dk/coolit.htm

[Bargod]

Well, I do believe that carbon emissions cause a "green house" effect. That is how we got our atmosphere to begin with.
What I haven't been convinced of is that the Earth has stopped being a self regulating object.
If you look at science without looking at an agenda, the Earth regulates temperatures across the globe. It has done this since it's formation. It changes over time, and very well may be speeding up, but that doesn't stop the science of how the Earth regulates temperatures.
As the Earth warms our ice caps are melting. This is a fact. It is happening right now. This fresh water is going into our oceans. The oceans are the main regulator of heat on Earth. The currents are driven by cold water from the poles moving towards the less dense warm water of the Equator, whose water moves towards the poles and loses it's heat to the atmosphere, cooling, and falling, and moving towards less dense water at the Eqautor. Science. It's a simple convection cell and it's how the Earth regulates it's temperature.
So, we now have this fresh water coming in. Well, this changes the salinity of the water slowing the whole process down. This causes an overall cooling of the Earths temperature. The ice caps grow and eventually the waters warm again and the temperature has gone back to "normal".
I learned this in Science class before anyone was talking about global warming.
In the early '80's all anyone talked about was Global Cooling and how much colder the Earth had been getting. Well, that didn't happen.
Two years ago after some massive hurricanes Global Warming activests announced that it was just the beginning and the storms would get worse every year because of Global Warming. Well, if anyone talked to historical meteorologists you would have heard that it was just part of a 70 year cycle and was part of a normal pattern that wouldn't be repeated again for another 70 years.

Do I deny global warming? No. Do I think that man isn't the cause? No. Do I think that there is not enough data to make any kind of Dooms Day predictions? Yes. Should we try to make the world a cleaner place? Yes.
But don't tell me that a few years of research = the end of the world. Science without agenda usually shows a different view of things.

BTW - Texas had it's wettest, coolest summer in over a decade this summer ending a drought that had been going on since the mid '90's. Thanks global warming. I really didn't want to deal with another summer of a month of 100 degree + weather.

[Cpt. Snot Rocket]

Thank you Bargod. My view is nearly the same.
-The earth's temperature appears to be slightly increasing given limited sporadic data. (In the 70's and early 80's scientist were preparing us for the coming ice-age).

-What is causing this, or what impact 'man' may have in this, is highly debatable

-Should Americans and the rest of the world spend 100's of Trillions of dollars to regulate a myriad of things that may or may not have any impact on the earth's temperature?
(Many people are using the 'Global Warming' Issue to advance political agenda's, seize power and control on the masses.)

And despite what many think, there are many scientist that do not fall lock step in the 'world is flat' or 'man-made global warming' theories.

[Hellfighter]

Beauty of a post Captain!
I don't think these "what he says" - "global warming" followers even know what to say to a post like that......

I want to know how many of those links Capt.Andtenille read through or was it a copy n paste thing from somewhere else....
LOL, I say regardless it will always be debatable and 50/50 as to guessing which side is ultimately correct. It's one of those grand design things humans can't comprehend fully at our stage of knowledge -in my opinion. I think the debate should be not about man-made, but about how the issue is man-accelerated whether global warming is man-made or not we shouldn't just sit back and guestimate that it's a natural occurence that we can only sit back and watch happen.
For those of you firmly on the 'its a natural cycle' side, that's fine but it's pretty weak-willed in character to not make an effort to offset the potential disasters looming ahead- especially when you have no clue about the duration of such a heatening up cycle.

Anyways Captains Ant. and S.R, I'll be taking an extended break from the forums for a while since my task is now accomplished in providing fresh material in the forums for the insomniacs here to find getting zzzz's easier just by looking at-not even reading - my biblical length posts. Been nice 'debating' with yaz


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 09/26/07 12:48am

[Capt. Andtennille]

Beauty of a post Captain!
I don't think these "what he says" - "global warming" followers even know what to say to a post like that......

I want to know how many of those links Capt.Andtenille read through or was it a copy n paste thing from somewhere else....
LOL, I say regardless it will always be debatable and 50/50 as to guessing which side is ultimately correct. It's one of those grand design things humans can't comprehend fully at our stage of knowledge -in my opinion. I think the debate should be not about man-made, but about how the issue is man-accelerated whether global warming is man-made or not we shouldn't just sit back and guestimate that it's a natural occurence that we can only sit back and watch happen.
For those of you firmly on the 'its a natural cycle' side, that's fine but it's pretty weak-willed in character to not make an effort to offset the potential disasters looming ahead- especially when you have no clue about the duration of such a heatening up cycle.

Anyways Captains Ant. and S.R, I'll be taking an extended break from the forums for a while since my task is now accomplished in providing fresh material in the forums for the insomniacs here to find getting zzzz's easier just by looking at-not even reading - my biblical length posts. Been nice 'debating' with yaz

While I would love to take the opportunity to respond to your charges Hellfighter, I am trying to refrain from making any more political posts in these forums. I just want to let it be about the game. That said, it's not wise to "misunderestimate" me. LOL

[UNDEAD 1]

UHG, i cant understand why some people have to prove a point -to be right about the enviromental issues at hand. i hope your right ...... or our kids hope your right.

[Kleerance]

And despite what many think, there are many scientist that do not fall lock step in the 'world is flat' or 'man-made global warming' theories.

With all do respect - YOU! are the one that's claiming the world is flat. Your lame approach to this topic witness of a complete lack of knowledge and a big disrespect to all the people who takes this problem seriously. This is an irreversible process. When the damage is done you can't turn it around. That's why the world cannot afford to let this happen. That's why UN is now defining pollution quotas because this speed cannot continue. That's a fact -like it or not. Don't look up arguments from any nutcase out there just to back up your fortified opinion. The independent scientific elite is coming with these warnings because it's important - not to annoy anyone. And personally I trust Al Gore (and most european politicians) more than I trust Mr. Snot Rocket (and I'm not a democrat by heart). Denial of unpleasant facts is cheap and wrong. Open your eyes and face them - they are here and they are for real.

[T/A6Pak]

Ummm, still wondering.... is it okay to use the spider spray???

[Cpt. Snot Rocket]

I had a long reply Kleerance but the stupid forums somehow erasus it everytime I'm about ready to hit send. No more long posts for me! Ugghh!



I am not going to repeat it other than to say:

I am rubber, you are glue

names bounce off of me and stick to you.







This post has been edited by Cpt. Snot Rocket: 09/26/07 4:52pm

[Midnight Rambler]

It's great that less people will freeze to death, but unfortunatly the fertile growing areas will also shift. This will leave the former soviet union with a huge area of cropland and turn our agricultural areas into desert. My humble opinion is that it is to late to change it now. We're in for a wild ride I wish I was gonna be here to see it.

[shazbot]

I know we've all seen those film strips in school where they talk about geologic time and us humans have been here for a wink of an eye. Yes the graph is true, there have been many temp. fluctuations over the past 60 millions years, all at a geologic pace. This warm up is going to be over tens of years, makes the graph kind of irrelavent. I think Capt.Andtenille has the right idea, it's all about the game for me from this point on.

Shar, i give you permission to nuke those freaking spiders .

[Bargod]

Actually, the changes happen quite quickly, not at a slow pace. Not as fast as that movie... whatever it was called, where there was an ice age over night, but they happen in a lifetime, not thousands of years.

[-priority(+)target-]

In a heartbeat (150 years) humans threw as much CO2 into the atmosphere as it took nature 100's of millions of years to produce. The atmosphere is incredibly thin... You ever jog? Ever jog 5 miles... if you jogged 5 miles straight up, you would be on the top of Everst with 98% of the atmosphere below you.

When you think of the atmosphere as an incredibly thin band of gas, and pumping billions of TONS of pollutants into it, you can't help but shudder at the implications. What does global warming mean? It means the PLANET IS WARMER, the whole friggen rock.

Impact at the poles has been dramatic this year. You can read about the dramatic reduction of ice in the north on CBC, canada's BBC or ugh, CNN. "The Big Melt" is the series. Also, the Russians, Dutch (I think the Dutch) Canada and even the US are racing to the north to secure who gets what, LAND grab (not ice) of the 21st century.

Again and again we read about scientists that are shocked... these are the same scientists that are warning us of dramatic changes... I suppose that means they may have underestimated the changes too. The scarest changes I think are, as Undead said, drought, as the planet changes weather patterns. Famine, war, migration... down right medieval it will be.

Lastly and quite simply, the weather is the way the planet reorganizes the heat from the sun. Weather is a symptom... like an iceberg the weather is the small little top on a significant piece of unseen change. If you are talking about a small weather change you are talking about a huge difference on a global scale.

Thankfully this debate is 15 people saying its a problem and 1 or 2 stirring the pot. I hope the 15 of us make some good choices and teach our kids how to live in the future and for the future.