New PC possibility, Is this worth it? Options

[)--S@B0T-->]

Hey BG,

I think you would be happier, in the long run, if you were to build your own machine, vs. buying one. Reason being is you have YOUR machine and not someone else's that you try to make work for you. And, you don't end up with a machine that is overpriced and under powered and loaded with alot of crap you will never use.

On the other hand, it is much easier to go to BestBuy and let those guys steer you into something you will convince yourself to be happy with for the sake of not having to do the research. The choice is yours.

Building your own does require you to educate yourself on every aspect of computer building. Ahhh, therein lies the fun of the whole process....finding all the parts to build your very own machine within the budget you have established for yourself.

Next thought, you would like this machine to take you into the next era of computing (for me that is building a new machine every two years) with regard to your needs now and anticipation of what you might like to be doing with your machine in the near future, i.e. video editing, DVD burning (blue ray or not, etc) and so on.

**Don't let this become overwhelming and most importantly TAKE YOUR TIME!**

Items you will need or things to consider:

1. Computer case: It holds it all together. You will need a quality case ( "quality" does not translate into costly, necessarily) that will accomodate all your parts and allow for those parts to receive enough air to keep them cool. Air flow is most important, imo. I buy cases without the power supply, as again, the power supply is going to be specific to your machine and it's particular needs. The case is usually the last thing to consider after you have decided on everything else, but I started with it so I didn't leave it out by mistake. Just make sure it allows for lots of air movement and will support at least 2 or more fans. I personally use 120mm fans to ensure plenty of air movement throughout the case.

2. Processor: Only 2 to choose from; either Intel or AMD. While AMD builds a fine processor and held marketshare over Intel for a very long time, Intel has taken back the lead and is the processor of choice. You don't have to take my word for it, just google benchmark tests and see for yourself the results. In actuality, it's not about whether you are a die hard AMD or Intel customer (much like rednecks fight over whether a Ford or a Chevy is the better truck) rather it's about which processor outperforms which and, at the moment, it is Intel FTW.

You will want to choose the latest architecture you can afford and most likely we would be talking about the Intel LGA 775 processor. The LGA 775 is basically a nomenclature so that you can match motherboards and processors together. For example, you cannot use an "LGA 775" processor on a "Socket 939" motherboard. They have to match up.

Core 2 (meaning there are 2 processors on one chip) is the best bang for the buck right now, unless of course you would like to buy quad core (4 processors on one chip) but most don't really need that much processing power, besides it's quite expensive. Core 2 should be fine and the most affordable processor providing the most computing power for the money right now is the Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0 GHz processor, LGA 775. Great overclocker, low power consumption and will run circles aroud it's AMD counterpart and it is reasonably affordable.

3. Motherboard: What do you want your machine to do? Try to purchase the latest platform you can afford to work with your processor of choice as there are alot of boards out there that support a variety of processors, but we want a board to support the latest technology that we can afford. I am assuming that for you and I that would be, again, the Intel LGA 775 platform. Also, consider whether you will want to run 2 video cards (SLI, or Crossfire if you like ATI) or just one. You can always buy a board with SLI capability (2 pci express slots) but only want to run one video card for now. Also, consider how many usb, 1394, or other ports and expansion slots you might need.

Now then, we also want that board to accomodate the latest memory (ram) that we can afford and allow the processor to perform to it's full potential. Therefore, look for a board that supports a 1333 mhz front side bus (FSB). This is the speed that the computer and the ram communicate and Faster = Better. Next consideration is CHIPSET. This is the controller that is the heart and soul of how the mobo communicates with the rest of your hardware. Most common are VIA, SIS and NVIDIA chipsets. At the moment NVIDIA chipsets are outperforming the competition and if you are intending to use NVIDIA video, etc., this chipset choice adds compatability throughout your system.

4. Random Access Memory: Choose the best (not necessarily by name i.e Kingston, Crucial, etc.) but by how much you need, how fast it is and what you can afford. Memory is matched to the motherboard and processor. You can go to any motherboard manufacturer website and they will usually provide a list of compatable memory modules or "suggested memory usage" for the motherboard you choose. Again, we want RAM that will support the highest transfer rates and support our 1333mhz FSB. Memory timing is something to consider as well. The lower the numbers the better. This is how fast the memory processes information and is called "memory latency" At present 2.0 GB of RAM is still sufficient for machines running 32 bit XP but by purchasing that can accomodate more memory modules for upgrades is a good idea, i.e. most mobo's these days will accept up to 4 or more GB's of ram.

5. Video: While onboard video is nice, it aint for gamers, period! Buy the best card you can afford and I have to agree with OMM that NVIDIA is still offering the best video out there (i used to buy nothing but ATI) and the EVGA NVIDIA 8800 GT card is one of the finest, excellent video, fast, and affordable. If that card is not an option, definitely don't buy anything less than an NVIDIA 7 (7950GT) series card. I definitely recommend NVIDIA 8 series (8800's) with an affection for the 8800GT. Of course, we are looking to buy PCIE and not the older AGP card here. Don't laugh, they are still out there and an oversight could cost you some time and trouble replacing it with the right card.

6. Sound Card: You can use onboard sound, but it uses system resources and typically is not the quality you might like for other applications such as music or video enjoyment and especially - gaming. I would suggest a Creative sound blaster product in the Audigy 4 class or better. Affordable and provides excellent sound reproduction. You can certainly research the possibilities there.

7. Hard drive(s): Lots of options here. I usually go with the fastest I can afford, with the most cache memory and largest capacity while ensuring they support RAID. RAID is a way in which to arrange disk drives in a manner to ensure the fastest transfer of data and increase storage capacity. Your usual choices here are IDE drive and SATA drives. IDE are most common and typically slower compared to Serial ATA or SATA drives. Make sure your motherboard supports SATA and usually you would like it to support SATAII(faster) Again you can read all about it by Googling.

8. Floppy Drive: Will probably need one to install raid drivers when installing windows. I have tried to use an image file from the CD rom but I have had no luck. So, any 1.44 floppy drive will do here.

9. CD/DVD burner, reader. Recommend you get a multi-tasker when it comes to a media reader. Most are very affordable and here again, you don't need a Sony or a Plextor to survive. I have an LG CD/DVD/Burner/Reader/Writer and it works great. It reads and burns CD's, reads and burns DVD's, plays movies and is fast.

10. Power Supply: The most overlooked component of the PC. Google "PC Power supply calculator" and you should find a powersupply calculator that will ask for each component of your machine and then will calculate how much power supply you will need. Also, check your video card requirements as some specify a "minimum requirement" to run those energy hungry beasts. I'm guessing you should be fine with a quality 450 to 550 watt power supply to build the machine we are talking about here but more importantly is the amperage output, especially to the video. Most require 18 to 28 amps, however most quality pc power supplies have this covered. Do not scrimp on this part of your build or you will be very sorry!

11. Operating system: Recommend buying an OEM copy of windows xp from newegg or google "cheap software/operating systems" and you will find a plethora of opportunities to purchase cheap, LEGAL, full versions of windows. Buy just the disk ("OEM" or "out of box") and it will save you a bundle.

I know this looks like alot, and it is. However, if you follow the guides and component directions, you cannot go wrong and in the end you will have a machine that you are proud of and the satisfaction of knowing you built it yourself. Also, use your old machine as a guide to see how components fit and assemble.

Personally, I use CompUSA from time to time for computer cases. I use Newegg ALOT, as their prices are hard to beat plus they have a great selection, great return policies and if you spend $500.00 or more you get no payment for 6 months. I do that alot as it allows me to build a machine and pay for it with no interest over a six month period. You can't beat that.

Just to give you an idea, I built my machine about 5 months ago, for roughly $800.00 bucks

Sys. Specs

Asus P5N-E SLI motherboard
Intel LGA 775 Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0 GHz Processor
2 GB A-DATA 240 pin DDR 2 800 Ram
EVGA NVIDIA 8800 GTS 640mb PCIE video
2 Seagate 150 GB SATAII hardrives in RAID 0
Antec Trupower 2.0 430 Watt Power Supply
Soundblaster Audigy 4 Sound card
LG CD/DVD reader/writer
2-Coolermaster 120mm fans (front and rear of case)
1-Coolermaster 80mm fan (side of case next to video card)
Coolermaster Eilte midtower case with washable front screens

I would be happy to help you with this too if you would like to build one. I'm sure there are lots of folks in here with much more knowledge than I on the subject, but I thought I'd toss some of the basics out there for you to consider. Again, don't rush into this because as you gain knowledge on the subject, just like anything else, you will find that you could have bought a better product cheaper somewhere else. RESEARCH is the key!

***Disclaimer: While there are many different options, components, attitudes and opinions on assembling the "perfect" computer, this thread is in no way meant to be interpreted as "all inclusive" or from someone who claims to "know it all" or by any means an affront to start WWIII where specific mention of certain manufacturers of components are concerned. It is merely a suggestion offered by an individual who "dabbles" in the world of computers and has put forth this information as a loose guide on what works very well for one individual and is not to be miscommunicated or misinterpreted as anything other than friendly advice. The author claims no responsibility as to the performance of your particular machine, it's components, or its use and is based upon what is a known, working model for this particular person. And, as my good friend, Mule, has already noted; "your mileage may vary".

[MyWifesMule]

Well Sabot, what can I say or add to that exceptional post. Its great to hear from you again.

I have to agree 99.9% with what you have said, but then again I usually do, especially ................. "RESEARCH is the key! " and "Building your own does require you to educate yourself on every aspect of computer building. Ahhh, therein lies the fun of the whole process..."

One other thing I might add, "CHIPSET. This is the controller that is the heart and soul of how the mobo communicates with the rest of your hardware. Most common are VIA, SIS and NVIDIA chipsets. "

You forgot the chipset big boy on the block................... INTEL.

My Specs:

Motherboard: ABIT IP35Pro,
Processor : Intel Core 2 Duo E6750
Memory : G.SKILL (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800, F2-6400CL4D-2GBHK ..................... Check out the timings on these baby's.
Video Card : XFXGeForce 8800GT, (G92)
Power Supply : PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610W EPS12V
Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm, 250GB SATA
Case : NZXT Alpha Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
CD/DVD Burner : ASUS 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe

This post has been edited by MyWifesMule: 02/14/08 2:33pm

[|$aucy|]

Just for the record... the idea of a MAC should not be so immediately discarded. Albeit I know little about MACs that would be in your price range BG, I use a macbook pro laptop and it's awesome. I have Final Cut Pro and all of my serious stuff on the mac side of things, while with bootcamp I am able to run COD4, Cod2, MOHAA and most games with a requirements level of Cod4 or lower perfectly fine on the windows side.

The only problem with this is that it is probably really expensive, considering if I had actually bought FCP, Windows, and bootcamp itself (which comes with the newest OS - Leopard) it would have cost me like an extra 1k$.




This post has been edited by |$aucy|: 02/14/08 3:27pm

[Bargod]

OK. Having taken all of this advice in, and having talked with my wife, I'm convinced I can build myself a rig that will get me through the next 8 years (lol) for around $800. This may not include a new monitor which I can get locally on sale at my favorite electronics store. They are always having sales on flat screens.

Anyway, here's what I'm looking at so far...

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor
(I'm sure you guys can help me OC this into the 3.0 GHz range)

ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard

CORSAIR XMS2 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

GIGABYTE GV-NX86S256H GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

Total so far: $650

So, am I doing OK? Does anyone see any conflicts... aside from the fact that I just realised this won't be made for under $800?

I'm assuming I can use the DVD burner I've got for the time being as well as the floppy from this pc.
That would leave fans, power supply, audio card and case?
Well, back to newegg to see if I can do that for under $200...

[Bargod]

OK. Rounding out the rig is...

coolermaster tower with 3x 120mm fans

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE SB0570LPVP 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Low-Profile Sound Card

Rosewill Stallion Series Single 12cm Ball Bearing Fan RD450-2-SB ATX V2.2 450W Power Supply 115V/230

So, if for the time being I use my current monitor, hard drive, floppy and dvd rom, this is a complete rig?
The total price is $873 with $70 in rebates, so it would bring me to my $800 goal.

What do you guys think?

[)--S@B0T-->]

BG, I would say you have a great start on this thing!

Now, if it were me and I was happy with all the specs the ABIT board offers, then I would try to shop it against other manufacturers to see if there were any other features that I had to have, or could live without. If the ABIT board is the one, then I believe it's definitely a solid choice. I noticed it also supports a 1333 Front side bus. This is a good thing!

The processor looks like a horse! It is a quadcore, however it is limited on the FSB to 1066mhz. This translates to lower clock speeds when overclocking. Ideally, 1333mhz is where you want to be. Being a quadcore processor though, I don't know if more cores make the difference for the loss of clock cycles. I would say it does not. I would have to find some benchmark info there. Also, I always purchase at rated speed and overclock from there. Meaning, I would buy a 3.0 ghz processor and overclock to achieve a 3.5 or 3.8ghz, than to buya 2.4ghz and overclock to a 3ghz or maybe a 3.2ghz machine. Keeping in mind as you increase voltages, clock speeds and memory cycles to achieve those extra horses, you build heat in the system and that heat translates to shorter life span of the processor. Will have to keep an eye on those core temps for sure. Again, I need to find some info on this.

Memory is a fine choice....can't beat the price after rebate for 4 gigs of ram. You could shop this a little too and buy 2 gigs now to save some cash, and buy another 2 gigs down the road when u upgrade to Vista for example. I don't know how much you can save there, as your current selection is a good deal, imo.

Video. Try to get a bit closer to the 8800's if you can...you won't be sorry.

Definitely use your old floppy and dvd player/burner if they still work fine.

All in all Chris, you're making some great choices and fine tuning your selections will ensure a successful build!

[)--S@B0T-->]

I see you have added some things...

Case is a solid choice, I think. It is very similiar to mine and I can say that while it is an inexpensive case, it is not CHEAP in design or craftsmanship. Since it comes with the Coolermaster fans that is a great plus since cooling fans are usually $15 to $20 bucks a piece for good quality. Good choice!

Sound card is great. I have one of these and I still use it. You can't go wrong there.

The powersupply you have chosen is not one I am familiar with,however that means nothing. If it is rated at the power and amperage ouput for your machine's needs, then you will be fine.

All in all I think you are on your way......

[MyWifesMule]

Now your getting it! Good for you BG.

Power supply: Don't skimp on the power supply. I would go for a higher current output power supply, one with a single +12 volt rail, the video cards can be power hogs and if you upgrade in the future you'll have the power available. My recommendation http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817703005
It's very compatible with the IP35Pro, and check out the savings.

Ram : If its a 32 bit operating system, your computer will only recognize about 3.25gig of ram, the rest is divided up for use buy the other components. I'd go 2 gig to start.

Last but not least, the major determining factor for my choice of an Abit motherboard was their forums http://forum.uabit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48, if you have any problems at all, this is the place to get help, there not affiliated with Abit, they are just regular people that are very knowledgeable about all aspects of building and troubleshooting computer problems, check it out, you won't be sorry.

Newegg has great deals on monitors too. You can't go wrong buying anything at Newegg, I got all my components there and have a whole year to pay it off, interest free.

This post has been edited by T/A6Pak: 02/18/08 2:46pm

[HammaTime]

Hey Chris, make sure you squeal with delight every time you kill P. He most likely paid more for his Yorkfield chipset than you will for your entire rig. Of course, I'm still wondering how he got it. He must be connected. I had heard that Intel was holding most of them for Apple.

As a Mac owner since 1984, I drooled over the new Yorkfield chipset found in their top of the line tower. I did that just long enough for me to downshift and spring for the Quad Core Harpertown.

For those of you considering the Mac option, the new 24-inch iMac (2.8 Intel Core 2 Dual) has been treating me well. I have XP running via Bootcamp and both COD4 and Crysis run well. COD4 is glorious on the iMac, but I have to admit that Crysis chokes it a bit. The bottleneck is obviously the graphics card.

I've really enjoyed hearing how you guys are cobbling together your own rigs. A friend of mine built a water-cooled monster with amazing specs and he had a lot of fun doing it. Makes a Mac guy a bit envious. But, then again, it is amazing how much customization you can do when you order one of the Mac towers.

Have any of you built a system with SAS drives? The performance improvement is supposedly legendary, I just couldn't justify the incredible expense of both the drives and the Fibre channel card.

[Bargod]

Well, looking at a Core 2 duo that I can afford I found this, Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor . It has the 1333 FSB and is 3 GHZ. I found a review that compares the Core 2 Duo to the Quad Core. It listed benchmarks and lots of other things I don't understand. In the end the Quad Core wins, however in the terms of current game play the core 2 wins as their really aren't any games taking advantage of the quad core yet. However that is expected to change.
So, I'm left with the conflict of being able to over clock to achieve extra frame rates with the core 2 duo, or for only $35 more go with fewer frame rates while gaming for a "future" system that will allow me to run photoshop, burn a DVD, surf the net, listen to music, and play a game at the same time without bogging down.
With the idea that I would like to do some movie work on it in the future I think I'm going to keep the quad core. Compared to playing UO with a FR of 12-16, I'm sure what ever frame rate I get in cod4 will be like sailing on a smooth lake.

I did take the advice of downgrading the ram to 2 gig. Mem gets cheaper ever day, so that won't be a problem to upgrade at all.

Now, the big jump from an nvidia 8600 to an 8800 in price is tough for me to do and stay in the price range I want. I've actually found an 8600 for about $100 on new egg that matches the other one I have listed. For the price of two of those I would still be saving money over an 8800. So, would it be better to go with a single 8600 now and get a second one in the future? (of course that $100 card has heat issues, would need another fan it sounds like)

[Bargod]

Another question. What would be better, and 8800 with 256 bit but lower core clock, or an 8600 with 128 bit and faster core clock?

[Genocide Junkie]

Hey BG I have a coolermaster case I got from Newegg and it's nice. Only thing is I paid well under the $80 you have listed. I think you can probably shave another $30 to $40 from that amount and still get a nice case from CM. I'm going to bet that the 8800 would out perform the 8600 even with a faster processor. I'm sure others will know more about it...

[Bargod]

Hey BG I have a coolermaster case I got from Newegg and it's nice. Only thing is I paid well under the $80 you have listed. I think you can probably shave another $30 to $40 from that amount and still get a nice case from CM. I'm going to bet that the 8800 would out perform the 8600 even with a faster processor. I'm sure others will know more about it...

Did that come with the 3 120mm fans installed?

my brain hurts from looking at video cards....

[)--S@B0T-->]

Hey BG, after reading A LOT on the debate between the E8400 and the Q6600 that is all over the net and based on the benchmarking information I, too, agree with your decision to go with the Q6600. Apparently, some q6600 owners have had tremendous success OC'ing that bad boy to well over 3.2ghz. One thing about the overclocking is that you may have to buy an aftermarket cooling fan for the processor when you start climbing into the 500 to 700 mhz's over stock. LOTS of HEAT! However, I have also seen stock coolers do a great job in that range too, so it really boils down to your particular machine. Great choice, especially since you are going to be doing the video editing and will be utilizing the quad cores!

Another thought....you might be able to save even more money on memory if you are only wanting to go 1066mhz FSB. You can research that, or stay with the memory that supports the 1333fsb for any future upgrades that would require that speed.

On the video.....I am looking at that now, but I think you are good there too with your budget and how your rig is coming together.

Lots of information to keep straight, eh? LOL! You're doing a great job!

[Bargod]

Thanks Sabot. It is giving me a headache. I'm going to clean the kitchen for a while, lol.