Palin Options

[Robert]

Actually I don't think it's wine, more like the fake grape juice they sell as wine.
They are not in the same family but go to the same church. They also go through the whole thing for ash Wednesday even though I don't think every does. Some services are formal while other are more laid back.
It was so embarrassing when I made the mistake of telling one of them they had some dirt on their head. I realize what Ash Wednesday, it just didn't dawn on me that day because I had been working 7 days a week for a while so the days tended to run together. Plus it didn't look like a cross, just a little smear across their forehead.

[UNDEAD 1]

The single bill isn't the direct cause just one of many but there was a large increase in CRA related activity in 1995.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080924/bs_ib...080924general01
Banks were forced to show the had written at least a 20% increase in low income minority housing.
If they didn't, their CRA rating would fall which could resort in all kinds of problems.
1) Banks request to open a new branch or expand through mergers and acquisitions could be denied.
2) They could loss their all important FDIC coverage
I doubt #2 ever happened but it was one of the things banks could be threaten with.
Then Fannie & Freddie opened the flood gates even more with their huge increase in mortgages they bought regardless of the mortgage's real value, enabling banks to right even more risky paper.
In 1968 they both had 2.5 Billion in their portfolios. from the 1900's to 2003, they grew to 10 times their previous size. Now they hold over $5 trillion in mortgage debt, nearly half of what's outstanding in the United States.
By law Banks are required to hold a reserve of cash and other investments equal to 10 percent of the dollar amount of loans they make.
Because of special rules setup just for them to allow them to buy as many mortgages as possible, their $5 trillion in mortgages was backed by only $81 billion in capital.
While banks had to hold 10% in capital, Fannie and Freddie only had .36%
As much as this company grew, their CEO still overstated their profits to increase their bonuses.
It was a house of cards.

So to stay on topic before we get in a retarded religious rant. so Jimmy and the Dems started this,then Reagan (Rep) used it ,then clinton (Dem) and then Bush (Rep) so why are we pointing fingers? At one point in this country ,when times were extremely tuff ,they passed a bill to help the small guy get a home....years later you cant blame the Dems over it,in fact on the last post above was Bush claining he wanted http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...mp;#entry173642 now we are in a crisis and im seeing " Jimmy Carter and the Dems did it too us!" My question is ,why didnt the current administration realize this issue was coming back in 2006?

i wasnt born yet but my grandfather told me that pretty much prior to Kennedy being in office an irish citizen couldnt even attend a public pool or country club so religion or race should never come up.its the first thing i hear from idiots down here concerning Obama.Religion is an ENDLESS battle with no answer.i think it should stay on the politics rather.

[Robert]

Maybe I didn't do a good job making my point.
The original accusation was, those mean Republicans and their crazy deregulation schemes caused this financial mess. Everything I've said was to show the other side of the coin.
I think most politicians are somewhat to blame for our current mess.
You asked why the administration didn't see this happening back in 2006.
As I've already posted, Bush called for something to be done all the back to 2003 as did McCain in 2005. In all fairness, while some people tried to raise the alarm, I don't think anyone knew just how bad it could get or how quick. Then there is the fact, whenever someone tried to do something which probably wouldn't have prevented the fall only cushion it, they ran into all kinds of interference from people who were either making money off of it or it went against their political methodology.
Then there is the problem of how hard it is to prove a negative.

There are several different things which got us to this point, I'm not trying to say it was a single piece of legislation or single political party. In fact the only long term politician who I think has always genuinely had the publics best interest at heart would be Ralph Nader. Not that I would want him as President but he has done more for consumer safety an public interest than any other 10 people put together.

[HammaTime]

Okay lets assume your point concerning the dinosaurs is not a religious question but one of scientific fact.
Well here is why I still think your argument is biased.
Based solely on scientific fact.
Does that mean Obama an McCain as Christians believe a guy died 2000 years ago an came back to life 3 days later?

Faith in the immaculate conception has no present-day ramifications. Failure to believe the earth is older than 6,000 years has SERIOUS ramifications for public policy regarding perhaps the biggest issue facing the world today. Therefore, trying to determine the level of support for scientific research is an essential duty for voters in this election.

I certainly don't feel that a President Palin would do any better at taking steps to curb global warming than Bush has in the previous 8 years.

Today we are seeing the highest rates of CO2 emissions in history. These rates are at the "worst-case" scenarios of many of the climate models that predicted dramatic climate change. This is a matter that certainly supercedes such a minor issue as what religious fantasy one chooses to believe as their own.


Getting back to Palin - I was astonished to hear McCain compare her to Reagan and Clinton when questioned about her experience.

Ronald Reagan majored in economics and sociology and graduated from college in 1932.
He spent five years as a sports radio broadcaster.
He completed fourteen home-study Army Extension Courses and then enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve and entered active duty five years later.
He was "separated" from active duty 3 1/2 years later.
He served on the Board of Directors of the Screen Actors Guild in 1941 and ran successfully for seven one-year terms as president of SAG, a role that required he testify before Congress.
He served eight years as Governor of California before being elected to two terms as President.

Bill Clinton attended Georgetown University in Washington, earning a bachelor of science in foreign service.
He worked as an intern for Senator William Fulbright.
He won a Rhodes Scholarship to University College in Oxford, England where he studied Government.
He then attended Yale Law School and earned his Juris Doctor degree in 1973.
He became a professor at the University of Arkansas.
He ran successfully for attorney general and served for two years before running for governor.
Elected in 1978, he served as the nation's youngest governor in history before losing his next election.
He ran successfully again in 1983 and served two more terms.
He was elected as U.S. President in 1992 and served two terms.

So, Clinton served thirteen years as governor and Reagan served eight years.

Is it any wonder that Palin is choking on questions that are outside her purview of Alaska politics?

She is woefully unprepared to assume the second highest office in our land.

I thought it might be beneficial to compare her to Dan Quayle.

Dan Quayle earned a B.A. in political science from DePauw University.
He served in the Indiana Army National Guard from 1969-1975 (back when that service guaranteed him he wouldn't be assigned to battle in Vietnam).
He served as an investigator in the Indiana Office of the Attorney General.
He was an administrative assistant to Governor Edgar Whitcomb.
He was the Director of the Inheritance Tax Division in Indiana.
He earned his law degree from the Indiana School of Law.
He worked as associate publisher for his family's newspaper and practiced law.
In 1976 he was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives and won reelection.
In 1980 he was the youngest person ever elected to the U.S. Senate from the state of Indiana.
He was reelected with the largest margin ever achieved to that date by a Indiana candidate.
He was chosen to be George H.W. Bush's running mate in the 1988 election.

Wow. So, here we have a candidate who is dwarfed by Dan Quayle's experience!!

Despite all the claims that Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for two years, she hasn't. She was elected December 4, 2006. She is still in the process of completing her second year.

Her claims of building a natural gas pipeline are as close to reality as the claims that Al Gore invented the internet, only problem with that is that Al Gore never claimed any such thing. Palin has regularly claimed credit for a pipeline, and has called it "God's will," but the reality is that it may never be built and is a project the Michigan Journal called a "pipe dream."

This post has been edited by HammaTime: 10/01/08 9:24pm

[Blitz]

Hamma,

So your point was that both Quayle and Clinton were both politicians that never held a job other than politics while Reagan had a real job and Palin held other jobs and worked her way up from school board, to mayor, to gov?

I guess in my opinion most people with more degrees than a thermometer and carear politicians are about as far away as leaders that I want because to lead you have to lead, not just get elected from a polished resume from harvard, yale, princeton, brown...etc

I would rather have somone that only agree's with me 75% of the time but actually has some core values and will fight for their belief, rather than be a politican at least i know they have a belief system.

and cmon global warming.... it's the largest farce propogated against mankind. One of the coldest winters and summers on records all over the world.... Oh wait a min... it's climate change now.

If you want to get back to that debate... read my last entry of peer reviewed data here.
http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...16185&st=45

[HammaTime]

My laughter, and a continuation of climate discussion occurs here.

I would rather have somone that only agree's with me 75% of the time but actually has some core values and will fight for their belief, rather than be a politican at least i know they have a belief system.

So, you obviously aren't a McCain supporter...

[Robert]

I would rather have somone that only agree's with me 75% of the time but actually has some core values and will fight for their belief, rather than be a politican at least i know they have a belief system.

So, you obviously aren't a McCain supporter...

That's exactly why I can't believe so many people support Obama.
Think about, the down on America an racist would he have to be, for Obama to a supportor of Reverend Wrong for so long, Mr hate spewing bigot.
Supposedly he's all about helping the little guy, just at long as it doesn't come out of his pocket. I make a fraction of what Obama or Biden make but had more claimed for charitable contributions on my tax form then either one of them except for Obama in the last two years. Even after the Obama's income skyrocketed over the last two years, I still do more based on percentage of income.
That doesn't matter because you can get enough votes based on empty but feel good promises of Hope and Change.


Something I've always found interesting, as a general rule people hate lawyers.
The most common profession before becoming a member of congress is lawyer, I wonder why.


If you want to do the experience is all important argument than.
Bush 41 should have beaten Reagen in 1980
Bush 41 should have also beaten Clinton 1992
So Experience isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Bush 41 is without a doubt the most experienced President in my lifetime an not just the limited experience of being a senator for 30 straight years, I'm talking about well rounded an personal experience in almost every aspect of government, yet he couldn't win a 2nd term.

[Hellfighter]

Actually I don't think it's wine, more like the fake grape juice they sell as wine.
They are not in the same family but go to the same church. They also go through the whole thing for ash Wednesday even though I don't think every does. Some services are formal while other are more laid back.
It was so embarrassing when I made the mistake of telling one of them they had some dirt on their head. I realize what Ash Wednesday, it just didn't dawn on me that day because I had been working 7 days a week for a while so the days tended to run together. Plus it didn't look like a cross, just a little smear across their forehead.

Don't feel too bad- the least they could do was explain it to you at the time.

[Hellfighter]

I would rather have somone that only agree's with me 75% of the time but actually has some core values and will fight for their belief, rather than be a politican at least i know they have a belief system.

So, you obviously aren't a McCain supporter...

That's exactly why I can't believe so many people support Obama.
Think about, the down on America an racist would he have to be, for Obama to a supportor of Reverend Wrong for so long, Mr hate spewing bigot.
.......................

To say Obama is a supporter of Rev.Wright is implying he holds unpatriotic racist views. Does it make any sense at all that if that was the case why has much of what America got Obama's back!?
Obama isn't a guilt-trip candidate - he has ideas and a view of the future for america that all those supporting him believe in. Were he a clumsy doofus he would not have that support. It's fair enough people have their reasons for not liking Obama, but it's a huge oversight to start assuming fanciful ideas why people do like him. There's no guilt trip involved - People simply like his ideas and his direction and that he's relatively straight as an arrow in his progress and has momentum. Of course that's not what anti-Obamists see, but those are the facts.
People who frown on Obama's popularity remind me of this; Most people love Dark Knight the movie.... but if you go in movie review forums, you'll see although 95% loved the movie, there are 5% who didn't - and that's fine - but then they make ridiculous comments about how the other 95% of positive commenters are uninformed idiots for not disliking the movie as they do.

I would rather have somone that only agree's with me 75% of the time but actually has some core values and will fight for their belief, rather than be a politican at least i know they have a belief system.

I wonder why you say these things- a little while back you claimed Obama ONLY uses teleprompters when he speaks. You now imply Obama comes straight out of Harvard and has a fairy tale idea of helping the masses. You know his background do you not? He could've used his education to take some snooty job and done well for himself. Instead he made the choice to help those not so fortunate in society. That's core values right there not to mention himself walking the walk in his belief to help those not as fortunate as him.
You know McCain originally wanted either Lieberman or Tom Ridge as his running mate - Palin was thrown in as a quick-fix tactical measure -a gamble to win over independants and conservatives/right wingers who seemed like they wouldn't vote. I won't say the Repubs are altogether responsible for bringing in Palin, but the McCain campaign is hardly a model of core values with all the cheesy moves they've been playing out the last 6 months.
If Palin screws up tonight -> and Biden does not screw up by not allowing her to screw up- then the McCain gamble will blow up in their faces- the fear in the eyes of Dems and Repubs and Independants of her as an incompetent VP will totally undermine his chances.

[Robert]

Even though I got a little chuckle out of your comparison between someone running for president an the popularity of a movie, ultimately in a strange way your right just not of reasons you think. In the end, it all comes down to a popularity contest. Whoever is most popular at any give time has the best chance to win.
That simple fact explains how someone like the Terminator can become Governor of the richest an most populated state in the union. Two thing are all that matters, how someone got there an what are they going to do.
This is just my personal opinion but when it comes to Obama, for lack of a better term, I believe he's an empty suit. He's grown widely popular based mostly on empty promises an feel good sound bytes of "Hope" and "Change"
I'm not saying there aren't people who believe in his political ideology. I just think it will be the feel good, we want to be part of change, voters who will put him over the top. Not people that beileive in his platform or great Seante voting record. Sorry but voting "present" all the time is the same as voting "don't care".




As for what he will do when he wins?
I guess we'll have to wait an see. what i do know is...
Wealth redistrubution via taxes is not the same as an economic plan.
An energy plan that doesn't include nuclear is stupid.


Looking forward to the debate tonight, should be interesting.
While she sucked ass on the interviews, I think she will nail the debate.

[HammaTime]

This is just my personal opinion but when it comes to Obama, for lack of a better term, I believe he's an empty suit.

This has to be the weakest argument I've seen you put forth.

We see what happens to "empty suits" in America. They get fried under the glare of the lights. If you need an example, look no further than Palin's recent disastrous interviews. Obama came into our collective culture by delivering a speech. He wrote that speech and the telling line in that speech was:

"E pluribus unum," out of many, one.

Now even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything goes.

Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America; there's the United States of America.

There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America."

After 8-years of some of the most divisive politics our nation has endured, this reaffirmation that we all should stand together and face the problems before us rings true to the majority of Americans. Obama's reponse to the economic crisis has proven that he offers an approach that many appreciate and that is why Obama is ahead in the polls. An "empty suit" wouldn't have been able to best the most powerful Democratic duo in the land. And an empty suit wouldn't have been able to stand up to John McCain during that debate.

The choice is simple. Do you like what George W. Bush has done to our economy? Do you like what George W. Bush has done in the Middle East and around the world? If you do, then by all means, vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin as they certainly are promising more of the same. Let them further trash our children's future, let them continue to rack up outrageous debt which is making us ever more indebted to China.

You backed a candidate who came out of one of the least populous states in America. Someone who had never stepped foot on the national stage. That was a gamble, a stunt really. She may stand on that stage tonight and handle the questions, but the damage has been done. The polls reflect her plummeting support among the American population. She has been revealed to be an energetic, attractive, but empty suit with little education and experience to prepare her for the incredibly challenging times facing this nation.

I have no way of knowing what an Obama presidency will truly be like, but I certainly know what these past 8 years have been like. The very concept of "awarding" the Republicans for their recent disastrous performance is reason enough for me to support someone else.

[Robert]

You just proved my point.
He delivers a great speech
"There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America.""
While in real life he belong to a church for 20 years thats main focus isn't religion but how black a person is.
He tries to run on a platform of unity but relies on race-baiting when it suits him.
There going to say he has a funny name << --- No One ever made an issue of that
There going bring up how he doesn't look like the the people on the money <<<--- Never happened


He professes the belief everyone should give everyone else a hand up
While in real life he gives less to charity then the people he condemns as uncaring.

An please don't make me laugh by bringing up his "community service" it was a predictable stepping stone into political office an/or contact with such people. Or do you honestly believe he earned his way into Harvard with grades at Colombia which weren't good enough to graduate with honors.

When I say empty suit, it's not only personal reflection, it's about his platform.
Talking about Hope an Change while doing your best to steer clear of taking a stand, to me doesn't say a lot.
Same as all his "present" votes while in the senate.
For the people who are genuinely excited about voting for Barrack, good for you, It's great you can get excited about your candidate but that doesn't mean I agree with you or believe in his stump speech about "Change"
Hell, I wish I was more excited about McCain but I'm not. As I previously said I think he was a better candidate back in 2000. Whats sad is even though I'm honest enough to identify things I don't like about McCain, I can't find anything I particular like about Obama.

[Blitz]

So, you obviously aren't a McCain supporter...

Actually, no If he selected another beltway insider I would most certainly have voted for Bob Barr.
I most likely still will, because once you are in the either party you have to toe the line or you will lose all power and effectively be neutered, without party backing and out your next election. Palin being a somewhat outsider and a little more down to earth has interested me, but because of the McCain and party baggage I still will most likely vote libertarian.

I wonder why you say these things- a little while back you claimed Obama ONLY uses teleprompters when he speaks. You now imply Obama comes straight out of Harvard and has a fairy tale idea of helping the masses. You know his background do you not? He could've used his education to take some snooty job and done well for himself. Instead he made the choice to help those not so fortunate in society. That's core values right there not to mention himself walking the walk in his belief to help those not as fortunate as him.

Please read my Acorn thread on wy views of his wonderful experience of helping.
secondarily IMO Obama will say anything and do anything to get elected, As a rule the Democratic party is way to close to socialism for my liking and I could never vote for them.
For a person with no vast list of acomplishments (legislation, projects, leadership roles etc), no background, no real history it really makes me think that he was pushed forward as a figurehead and nothing else.

To ascend to that level of power, break the political machine of the Clintons, and do all of this in this amount of time just seems to hollywood fake to me. That's why I believe he has no real core, and is a product of great coaching, and spews the political rhetorict to the masses that will win elections with 30 second sound bites but does not translate to real leadership.

[HammaTime]

Barr does seem to be an interesting candidate.

Clearly, we don't have enough choices in this country. Vast issues have to be overlooked to support any given candidate.

I'll be very interested to see how the bailout plays with the majority of Americans. Talk about socialism. We've reached a point where many in the Republican party has come full circle (as Pat Buchanan wisely predicted years ago) and now they could actually be seen as toeing the same position as many Leftists. I agree that the bailout is socialism for the wealthy corporations.

The world has been turned upside down...

[Hellfighter]

.........That's why I believe he has no real core, and is a product of great coaching, and spews the political rhetorict to the masses that will win elections with 30 second sound bites but does not translate to real leadership.

In all sincerity, I don't believe you've been following McCain's campaign closely the last 8 months. He's turned on a dime so many times in issues JUST to appeal to his republican masses its not funny. Many times.
And once again the sound bites you see are merely that. Have you watched a full Obama speech without teleprompters. You keep imagiing the masses are like yourself watching just 30 second soundbites - many -like myself watch full sessions of his lengthy dialogues with the public he speaks before. If you decide to watch a few such speeches/sessions in their entire length - and not just 30 second soundbites, then you'll truly be in a position to judge his leadership capability.
And once again if he was all about saying just what the people want to here, he'd be like Mccain shrilling 'no new taxes' - but McCain HAS admitted several months ago in a small interview that if circumstances arose that he had to wisely raise taxes HE WOULD.... but he doesn't mention that in his speeches.
McCain's flip-flopping stance that is designed over to the Conservatives who have no real love for him is orchestrated by his Campaign - some of the stances he takes are not his by choice as was Palin not his original choice for VP.
It's similar to the problems Palin is having - while she's very competent as a Governor and in related debates that got her to that position [ clips showing her debating without any hesitation and in full clarity her position on issues -shown by of all people, on Keith Olbermann > -Robert ]
But like I mentioned a couple of weeks ago- the campaign has been holding her back and restricting her from acting 'Palin'. She's visibly all out of keel in the role. Even tonight it's being said she'll be herself, but I'm predicting more disaster because the campaign is telling her how to act like 'herself'.

....................
He tries to run on a platform of unity but relies on race-baiting when it suits him.
There going to say he has a funny name...............

He professes the belief everyone should give everyone else a hand up
While in real life he gives less to charity then the people he condemns as uncaring.

An please don't make me laugh by bringing up his "community service" it was a predictable stepping stone into political office an/or contact with such people. Or do you honestly believe he earned his way into Harvard with grades at Colombia which weren't good enough to graduate with honors.

.....................
For the people who are genuinely excited about voting for Barrack, good for you, It's great you can get excited about your candidate but that doesn't mean I agree with you or believe in his stump speech about "Change"
Hell, I wish I was more excited about McCain but I'm not. As I previously said I think he was a better candidate back in 2000. Whats sad is even though I'm honest enough to identify things I don't like about McCain, I can't find anything I particular like about Obama.

The only race-baiting Obama did without provocation was more with the dollar bill faces episode.
The 'funny-name' part was directly a broadside at the lunatic neocons acting on the fringes outside of the McCain campaign going on tv deliberately emphasizing 'obama HUSSEIN' - the occasions were many on mainstream tv during supposedly informative interviews and all by bozo neocons in suits.
Your point about what you like and what you personally don't like about Obama is fair - and it's good you've not made negative assumptions about why people for their own very varied reasons prefer or see as tangible in the Obama whirlwind. I was initially leaning towards Clinton as you know last year, but then I saw things you Americans knew already that disgusted you... what switched me from her was her giving a blank check to Bush as a senator last November to attack Iran basically on his whim - this after she expressed her big mistake in supporting Bush's crusade into Iraq.
I know Palin is competent- but as I feared just as a Governor. It was scary seeing the McCain campaign going on the air today saying Palin ONLY needs to explain how she's a hard-working mom and show people who she really is as the recipe for victory in the soon-to-be debate. They seem oblivious to the fact the non-Palin supporters want to see her redeem herself only by showing she can give informative answers to theVP-related questions asked of her without whining about 'gotcha questions'.




This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 10/02/08 8:02pm