What REALLY happened on 9/11, the truth of 9/11... carry an open mind. Options

[Too Exclusive]

maybe it was 180 tons... ill have to check that out. but if it is 180 tons that further proves the pentagon theory for lack of substantial wreckage... there are photos documenting a total of about 1 ton of wreckage... not 180...

there was also a clip on howard stern one time about flight 93 being shot down, maybe i can dig that up somewhere.

[ScarFace]

Alright you must be borderline retarted because I'm talking about the WTC not the pentagon. WE ALL KNOW that there was no 767 flying into the Pentagon, ITS OLD NEWS. So please stay on the subject or will that take you another 6 six months of yourlife to put together.

[Too Exclusive]

Alright you must be borderline retarted because I'm talking about the WTC not the pentagon. WE ALL KNOW that there was no 767 flying into the Pentagon, ITS OLD NEWS. So please stay on the subject or will that take you another 6 six months of yourlife to put together.

i am on subject... and btw noone believes a missile hit the pgon here. i made one small reference to it. then i went back to flight 93... it's not like i completely went off topic... chill dude. and if 140 IQ is borderline retarted then we must live in a fucking smart world...

[Silver]

iq means squat...i have a high iq actually higher then that (not much). i dont consider myself smart.

[Druid]

1st let me ask a few questions so we know where you stand.
Do you think Elvis is alive and working at a carwash in Tulsa?
Do you think the Moon Landing was staged and never really happened?
Do you belive the world is secretly ran by the Illuminati?

You tell people to keep an open mind but at the same time you announce you have your own agenda

we people at letsroll911.org proved that article a farce

With that statement right there you show your mind is already made up while you tell everyone else to keep an open mind.


Moving right along to the good old "Operation Northwoods"
Every government conspiracy nut clutches to this one document as their shinning example
Most of the sites which promote conspiracy theories either misquote the "Operation Northwoods" paper, which by the way is very funny seeing as how the full document can be viewed on the web, or they completely exaggerate what it was.
For example with full support of the joint chiefs of staff.. untrue
I find it very interesting the person who 1st broke the story about the Operation Northwoods breif was doing a conspicary story on the NSA and made the brief a large part of his book before admitting the brief had nothing to do with the NSA.
As damning as the brief is, keep it in perspective.
It wasn't done by the joint cheifs of staff it was made by the cheif of staff Lemnitzer, who by the way lost his posistion not long after giving the plan to McNamara for approval, which was turned down cold.
So lets put this in perspective.

Here are the facts
This one paper out of 1000's
Nothing became of it
Lemnitzer was told in no uncertain terms no action like this would be taken
Lemnitzer lost his position over it
Yet.... The conspiracy nuts cling to this as proof of covert government conspiracies.

Most of the sites that deal with this kind of stuff take bits and pieces of circumstantial evidence, wrap it in a nice presentation and call it overwhelming proof.

If you take a more common sense approach you'll see that your logic or your information is faulty on several points.

one more thing in the few months prior to 9/11, bush signed Executive Order W199i telling the FBI to "back off" the bin ladens..

Here is a list of all Executive Orders signed by Bush
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/orders/
Do a google search for "Executive Order W199i" and you'll find 100's of site talking about this fantom order but not a signle site which can link to it.
Don't you find that a little strange seeing as how every single Executive Order is available on the web?
For that matter, Executive Orders are assigned in numerological order, Bushes 1st Executive Order was 13198. His last one was 13224. There are no letters used so tell me again about order W199i.

More later

[Druid]

Next we have

well let's not forget that al-CIAeda was founded, funded, and trained by our government. why the hell would they attack people that founded them, funded, and trained them? answer: they wouldnt. bin laden was a CIA asset.

Don't know how you come up with this craziness
The facts
Starting in 1979 the US gave funds to bin Laden to help Afghan resistance fighters, repel the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. This funding ended in 1984
al-Qeada wasn't formed until 1989 which is 5 years after the USA stopped funding the Afghan Resistance
1991 Bin Laden is expelled from Saudi Arabia due to his anti-government activities.
1996 The United States indicts bin Laden on charges of training the people involved in the 1993 attack that killed 18 U.S. servicemen in Somalia.
1998 The United States indicts bin Laden on charges of masterminding the attacks on U.S. embassies

Now tell me how you connect the dots to claim al-Qaeda was founded, funded, and trained by our government.


Or here is another example of misinformation you want to provide as fact.

the terrorists would have to find some way to get into the country unnoticed, train to be master pilots unnoticed, and find some way to defeat NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense). See NORAD is a system of radars throughout the country whose headquarters are in Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado. they track EVERY plane in the sky on radar. they KNOW if a plane goes off course, in which case they would send fighters within minutes to investigate.

Prior to 9-11 Norad was only focused on the 150 miles which make up the Air Defence Identification Zone encircling North America. Its job was to help assess, within two minutes, if each of the 7,000 incoming aircraft every day is friend or foe.
Post 9-11 Norad began monitoring all flights above the US.

A short list of changes involving NORAD since 9-11
1) Norad now monitors 40,000 daily flights, adding domestic flights to the 7,000 international flights it formerly tracked.
2) New computers in Norad headquarters Command Centre identify every internal North American flight.
3) Now 100 fighter jets stand on constant alert as opposed to 14 in North America prior to Sept. 11.
4) A dozen Norad mobile radars have been moved across the U.S. to expand the ability to monitor home skies
5) Prior to 9-11 only the Presendt or the Canadian Prime minister could athorize a downing of a commercial flight. Now Air Force generals have been authorized to shoot down hijacked commercial jets threatening U.S. cities without 1st consulting the president.

More later

[Silver]

i love this guy....

[Too Exclusive]

Do you think Elvis is alive and working at a carwash in Tulsa?

no

Do you think the Moon Landing was staged and never really happened?

no

Do you belive the world is secretly ran by the Illuminati?

yes... do the research.

You tell people to keep an open mind but at the same time you announce you have your own agenda

we people at letsroll911.org proved that article a farce

With that statement right there you show your mind is already made up while you tell everyone else to keep an open mind.

i dont get what you're trying to say... i do keep an open mind. i would not have GOTTEN where i was without an open mind. 2 years ago my paradigm was "yea i <3 george bush we gotta get that fuckin bastard saddam and his WMDs!" and at that time a lot of ppl (mostly europeans) told me i was a robot programmed to repeat everything the news spits out... so trust me ive been on both sides before, i know what it's like to always think the media's right and shit. but then i opened my mind a bit and started looking @ the other side i was like whoa shit... and everything started to make sense.

Moving right along to the good old "Operation Northwoods"
Every government conspiracy nut clutches to this one document as their shinning example
Most of the sites which promote conspiracy theories either misquote the "Operation Northwoods" paper, which by the way is very funny seeing as how the full document can be viewed on the web, or they completely exaggerate what it was.

how do they misquote it?

Most of the sites that deal with this kind of stuff take bits and pieces of circumstantial evidence, wrap it in a nice presentation and call it overwhelming proof.

bits and pieces add up. if u have thousands of bits and pieces u have a damn good heap of evidence. crime scene investigators take only bits and pieces.

one more thing in the few months prior to 9/11, bush signed Executive Order W199i telling the FBI to "back off" the bin ladens..

Here is a list of all Executive Orders signed by Bush
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/orders/
Do a google search for "Executive Order W199i" and you'll find 100's of site talking about this fantom order but not a signle site which can link to it.
Don't you find that a little strange seeing as how every single Executive Order is available on the web?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#w199i
there's a shitload of w199i resources... the reason you can't find W199i on the gov websites is because it's a classified document. the ONLY reason we know about this is because of a whistleblower named jon o'neill (i think), who tragically lost his life shortly after resigning from the CIA, on september 11th 2001. here's something from a book about W199i, i believe it describes what the numbers mean: http://www.propagandamatrix.com/W199I.gif "the designation '199' means 'national security matter'"

[Druid]

Not impressed that the only sites you can link to about this phantom exectutive order are two propaganda site. LOL

You say it's an executive order but can't link to it because it's clasified?
Sorry to burst your bubble but executive orders are not classified.

Not much reason to reply to whatever you say next.
After all you admit to belivieing the world is controled by the super secret group Illuminati.
Your more of a nut than I 1st thought

[ScarFace]

I'm seriously begining to think that Mr. Exclusive here is one of those guys that beats off to foot cream commercials and finds errors in phone books.

[Too Exclusive]

hah... if u look at that 1st propaganda site i gave you, you'll notice it links to about 10-15 different articles from all around including BBC and others...

and i guess they did good on john o'neil's death, because now everyone thinks W199i is made up... (but then again so were the WMDs aluminum tubes centerfuges and bullshit said to be in Iraq... so i guess it evens out eh? :/)... i feel bad that the person who came out with the info about this died on 9/11 :/

[Too Exclusive]

http://infowars.com/Video/911/wtc7_pbs.WMV

watch that. it's a clip from a PBS documentary. that's larry silverstein ADMITTING that building 7 was destroyed. larry silverstein was the landlord of the WTC at the time. o wait... that's a conspiracy theory too? the landlord of the WTC admitting that building 7 was destroyed by controlled demolition charges on a PBS DOCUMENTARY?

[Silver]

the term pull is in strict reference to pull man power from building seven, no man power was assigned to be inside operations so why say pull? answer just because there was no inside operations, outside opps ad inc comand was set up. notable man power that could be used. no ff opps were put in place and no FF attempts were made the building burned till it was unstable from falling debris and extreme heat took the tensile strength away from the steel. its a fact.

[Too Exclusive]

that's the most ridiculous thing i've heard.

I remember getting a call from the fire department commander telling me they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire, and you know we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it. And THEY MADE THAT DECISION TO PULL THEN WE WATCHED THE BUILDING COLLAPSE.

read the context... do research about controlled demolitions, "Pull it" means take the building down with demolition charges! look at the context, he wouldnt have said "they made that decision to pull then we watched the towers collapse" if it was pull power he wouldnt have made it SOUND like pulling it resulted in the collapse. cmon...

[Silver]

I remember getting a call from the fire department commander telling me they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire, and you know we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it. And THEY MADE THAT DECISION TO PULL THEN WE WATCHED THE BUILDING COLLAPSE.

the incident command was established at all sites where a structure fire was involved. three towers, three incident commands. there were people trapped at two of the incidents and the third was a secured empty structure. man power was diverted from building # seven. FDNY had to to secure all man power since this was a mass casulity incident. there sop called for mutial aid to be called on a county then a state wide basis. which was done. we put on stand-by and were packed to leave. man power was state wide. the decision was made by ICT CMD to let building seven burn. with out any fire fighting done the temp in the building went beyond the thresh-hold the steel could with hold. the building stood for hours and hours. the sprinklers and gas lines ruptured providing intense heat. the building fell. they all knew that. to demolish a building with explosives takes weeks of prep do. removing and drilling in main support's. dont be foolish