I am quitting {MOB}[Regs], Adios from Ramos Options Rating

[Ramos]

Today, I am announcing that I am quitting {MOB}[Regs]. This is long overdue.

{MOB}{Regs] was the first clan that I ever belonged to. I am what is known as a "mature" player in the gaming community: married with three kids, I own a house, and I graduated from college. So, I may not have been the best fit from the start. A member of my family, a person who plays computer games under the name Mona Lisa, encouraged me to join. I love the competition from online gaming, and one day I hope to play again with another group that may share my same philosophies: namely, that you can have fun without spewing hate.

I can only trust that my comments which follow will not be censored and will be afforded the same privileges by the site administrator as were given to those who created my reasons for leaving in the first place. I am quitting because I believe these forums have become a dangerous place where hate and aggression flourish and are encouraged to breed and grow. I don't fear for my life, but I do fear for yours. I fear for what your lives may become if this atmosphere of hate is not checked.

Some examples:

A forum post:

"Mona why don't you do us all a favor and put your mouth around a 12 ga."
A person who plays games under the name {MOB} Ice Cold.


Another post:

"hey mona lisa

how about this

just fucking die”

Another by the same person:

“you're a god damn idiot.

your a dumb bitch and i hope you die by stoning; dumb cunt."
A person who plays games under the name {MOB} Redeemer.

Another:

"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? People who think they can forecast the weather!!! Like just the other day, this punk i know was saying 'Yeah tomorrow we are gonna get like, 2 feet of snow in just a few hours. They were saying its gonna be the biggest snow in ten years.... And that day we get an inch of snow.... I feel like getting a baseball bat, breaking it over his head, and then STABBING him with the broken end!!!!"
My dead neighbor from Littleton, CO, Eric Harris.

On April 20, 1999, I lived by myself on a cul-de-sac in the small, suburban town of Littleton, Colorado. It was there that two high-school seniors, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, enacted an all-out assault on Columbine High School during the middle of the school day. I didn't know them personally, but I had seen them and their group, the Trench Coat Mafia, walking around the neighborhood. They dressed in black, and seemed odd. I had moved there from downtown Denver where in the fourteen years I was there, 10 people had been murdered within a two block radius of my house -- including the man across the street that was stabbed 114 times. Happy to be out of that environment, I was oblivious to the kids of the suburbs; they seemed harmless.

They were gamers -- just like us.

Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris were both intelligent, came from solid homes with two parents, and had older brothers who were three years their senior. In elementary school, Klebold and Harris had both played in sports such as baseball and soccer. Both enjoyed working with computers. Klebold and Harris seemed to spend their time doing normal teenager activities. They worked together in a local pizza parlor, liked to play Doom in the afternoons, and worried about finding a date to the prom. For all outward appearances, the boys looked like normal teenagers. Looking back, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris obviously weren't your average teenagers. They were angry teenagers. They were not only angry at athletes that made fun of them, or Christians, or blacks; they basically hated everyone except for a handful of people.

On the front page of Eric Harris's journal, he wrote:
"I hate the fucking world."

Harris also wrote that he hated racists, martial arts experts, and people who brag about their cars.
Here's some more remarks Eric said:
"You know what I hate? Star Wars fans: get a friggin life, you boring geeks.

You know what I hate? People who mispronounce words, like 'acrost,' and 'pacific' for 'specific,' and 'expresso' instead of 'espresso.'

You know what I hate? People who drive slow in the fast lane, God these people do not know how to drive.

You know what I hate? The WB network!!!! Oh Jesus, Mary Mother of God Almighty, I hate that channel with all my heart and soul."

Both Klebold and Harris were serious about acting out on this hate. As early as spring 1998, they wrote about killing and retaliation in each other's yearbooks, including an image of a man standing with a gun, surrounded by dead bodies, with the caption, "The only reason your still alive is because someone has decided to let you live." Klebold and Harris used the Internet to find recipes for pipe bombs and other explosives. They amassed an arsenal, which eventually included guns, knives, and 99 explosive devices. No one can say for sure why Klebold and Harris committed such a horrific crime. Many people have come up with theories including being picked on in school, violent video games (Doom), violent movies (Natural Born Killers), music, racism, Goth, problematic parents, depression, and more. Looking back, there were telltale hints and clues that something was seriously wrong. Videotapes, journals, guns and bombs in their rooms would have been easily found if the parents had looked.

Harris had made a website with hateful epithets that could have been followed up on.
Looking back, the clues were there. The obsession with weapons, war and death. The endless rounds of bloody computer games. The vicious rantings on the Internet. That's where the lives of Harris and Klebold intersected: in front of a computer. Klebold planned to study computer science. They were die-hard gamers. Harris always had top-of-the-line equipment, even when they first met as freshmen four years earlier. Together, they gamed, they hacked, they created and modified programs. They found power through technology. Even when the two wrote their violent, morbid poems and essays, some classmates saw it as nothing more than creative license fueled by teen-age angst. "It's a creative-writing class," Michele Fox said. "You write about what you want. Shakespeare wrote all about death."

{MOB}Redeemer posted referring to Mona Lisa:

"would you like me to be more complex?

your a dumb bitch and i hope you die by stoning; dumb cunt."

And another by {MOB}Redeemer about Mona Lisa:

"death threats. it was simply wishful thinking and hopes that she will leave. forever. and not go out of her way to change her ip to come back to us."

I didn't bother searching the many other posts that have been made here with similar beliefs. In my case, these remarks were enough. When I asked the site administrator to close the topic bashing Mona Lisa and Shane, I was told, basically, that it would be against their practice of allowing freedom of the speech to do so. Freedom becomes more dangerous when shrouded in anominoty. Now, I'm starting to doubt my purist First Amendment beliefs. The Web has strengthened freedom, but it also has made it more dangerous. Now, teen-agers can go on the Web, read hate literature, look at pornography, gamble, play bloody cybergames and learn how to make a bomb. And many parents, not computer-literate, stand by bragging as their kids "play on the computer."

I wonder how many of your parents know what you are reading here. Eric and Dylan’s parents would have found guns under the bed, bombs in the garage, and hate on their computers if they had bothered to look. I also wonder if I may be the only person who is disgusted with the hate found here on the MOB forums. Here on these forums, people hate campers, and hate hackers, hate other clans, hate people who correct their grammar or criticize their writing skills, and especially, it would appear, they hate people who won’t go away.

In hindsight, signs leading up to the killings in Littleton were obvious -- to the ones who did nothing but watched and listened -- I say, “how could you?” As Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold went about killing a dozen of my neighbors, I watched from a distance, wishing I could have helped. Now, six years later, I am trying here today to make up for it. I am not trying to infer that these guys who I quote here are capable of that kind of violence, but writing of this sort may attract those who are. Please stop writing hate; exercise some control over those who do, and begin embracing your gaming brothers as friends instead of suggesting they die by a violent death.

Adios,

Ramos

[Ice_Cold]

well Ramos, I am sorry to see you go. and for your info I too am married with 1 kid and 1 on the way. I do not have a house and i did not go to college. but I work my ass of for 15 buck an hour for a company thats considering making me an partner. but any way. I'm sorry for posting that comment. I sould have showen some restraint while posting that. Like I said I'm sorry to see you go even tho we havent chatted much

Later

[cypher]

A very poignant post Ramos. I understand your concern but feel the need to disagree with your contention that one of 'us' is another Columbine nutjob in the making. Do things get heated in here? Yes. Do we often say things that we wish we could immediately take back? Yes. Do any of us consider going out and killing the popular kids because we have no lives outside the irreverent Internet? Uh...I hope not.

Computer games do not cause otherwise normal kids to go on killing sprees and there is no evidence to that fact. Out of 50 million (conservatively) people that play games, visit forums, have Internet lives, how many go on killing sprees? 2? What is that percentage?

The kids in Columbine were not normal well-adjusted kids. They were fuckups and sociopaths. Do some of 'us' fall in that category? Statistics would say so but I still don't fear for my life in any way.

People are responsible for their own behavior, as Mona and yourself are for your own. I didn't get involved in many of the pissing matches that seemed to follow Mona everywhere she went as I just wasn't interested but I can say that I haven't seen anybody that reviled around here in a long time. Maybe there is blame to share?

Cypher
AA (Business & Commerce),BS (Computer Science),A+,N+,MCSD (VB)
ps: I am really fucking smart, just ask me

[The_redeemer]

everyone says things that are rash, and which to take them back, i'm sorry i said them. were they truthful thoughts? no.




This post has been edited by The_redeemer: 10/04/05 8:38pm

[Bargod]

Sorry to see you go, Ramos. I'll see you in FF league.

[XYZ Factor]

however, its been real pedagogical of you to show us quotes of things we've said, and making real life, applications to those quotes, which are asinine, trite ways of juxtaposing two unrelated, completely unconnected things.

You must have broken out the thesaurus and spent hours on this one huh reedemer.

I'm sorry that it escalated to this Ramos. I always thought of you as a class act (still do of course) and enjoyed speaking with you on vent. Adios buddy and good luck.

This post has been edited by XYZ Factor: 10/04/05 8:46pm

[realdeal]

Sorry to see you go Ramos but I expected this. I am not going to go into why I totally disagree with your post because Cypher pretty much summed it up for me. But I do have to disagree with one of your statements, specifically

When I asked the site administrator to close the topic bashing Mona Lisa and Shane, I was told, basically, that it would be against their practice of allowing freedom of the speech to do so.

Wrong.

First off, let it be known that from the start I probably sent you around 5-7 PM's asking you to try and control ML. Heck, I even shared some PM's with ML asking her to stop and suggesting ways she could try and fit in a little better with a gaming community, if she wanted to.

When you asked me to close the topics about ML, I did!
Take a look HERE and HERE

I then trolled ML from the forums and asked her not to return, see HERE

She even swore, (for the 10th time) that she would not post again, see HERE

When she came back as SHANE and posted again, as far as I was concerned, she was now fair game. She was told to leave and was trolled and she still decided to come back to a place where she knew she wasn't liked and posted yet again. Fair game in my book.

I wonder how many of your parents know what you are reading here.

The way ML acted on these forums, arguing and going back and forth with as she claims "immature kids", makes me wonder what YOUR parents would think if they read these forums.

If you want to talk about people who are troubled, I don't think you need to look much farther than at your sister.


-----As an addendum to this post, I see that your sister is back tonight, continuing to comment on our forums. Take a look HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE. HERE AND HERE


An you have the audacity to come here and preach to us a quasi sermon? Unreal.


---Addendum II - Yet another perfect example of ML's banter HERE
That was JUST posted by her...

[Undertow]

Well, later Ramos. I kinda figured this was comming when i saw you step up to bat for Mona/Shane.

[Ramos]

An you have the audacity to come here and preach to us a quasi sermon? Unreal.

My audacity is backed by my life experiences and conviction. It is you who should explain your audacious behavior by instigating, supporting, and participating in these threads that create the spirit of hate of which I speak.

[realdeal]

An you have the audacity to come here and preach to us a quasi sermon? Unreal.

My audacity is backed by my life experiences and conviction. It is you who should explain your audacious behavior by instigating, supporting, and participating in these threads that create the spirit of hate of which I speak.

You know not of what you speak. You obviously did not read my post or your just confused. As for an explanation, see my post above I think I made my point loud and clear.

[realdeal]

Ramos, allow me to post yet ANOTHER fine example of ML's psychosis.

HERE she says last post (AGAIN)... the thread then goes way off topic and isn't even about ML anymore.. then ML comes back out of the blue to stir the pot, HERE

Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm the crazy one.....

[Vader]

Ramos can you honestly say youve never said you were gonna kick someones ass and then didn't actually do it? or i say it to all my friends, im gonna punch you in the face, but do i? no, have i ever said i hate things? sure have, just cause you hate something or strongly dislike doesnt mean youre gonna go kill them.

as for that freedom of speech bull shit, if the admins here wanna censor something they fucking can. this is the internet, they pay the bills they make the rules.

Mona was asked to leave and he/she didn't. He/she said this was her last post, i dont even know how many times. He/she was just asking for trouble whenever he/she posted. for all i care *which i dont* mona gets what he/she deserves


V

[Ramos]

for all i care *which i dont* mona gets what he/she deserves


V

I respect your opinions, Vader, and RD, etc., regarding Mona. But I do not agree with them. No one "deserves" to be subjected to the kind of humilitation and hate found here. Saucy crossed a line with his post that people have not passed since I was a small boy growing up in a hostile racial environment. To create a thread wherein people vote on to what degree someone is a a "gender confused fucktard" then subsequently bashed and told to die a number of horrible and violent deaths, sets a very dangerous precedent. The consequences of young minds being nourished on this type of thought are documented in my resignation.

[PISTOFFBAD]

Sorry to see you go Ramos. Can't say that I blame ya. I've read a lot of posts on this forum, studied them without even posting myself. All I can say is hell has no fury than a women being scorned. Believe me she has been scorned by a bunch of kids that act like rabid dogs. Yea, maybe she didn't fit in but to keep poking and prodding til someone finally snaps just for your own amusement, and don't anybody say they didn't enjoy it because that's how some of you get your jollies. Fuck it, all I can say is she didn't get where she's at on her own.

[realdeal]

Sorry to see you go Ramos. Can't say that I blame ya. I've read a lot of posts on this forum, studied them without even posting myself. All I can say is hell has no fury than a women being scorned. Believe me she has been scorned by a bunch of kids that act like rabid dogs. Yea, maybe she didn't fit in but to keep poking and prodding til someone finally snaps just for your own amusement, and don't anybody say they didn't enjoy it because that's how some of you get your jollies. Fuck it, all I can say is she didn't get where she's at on her own.

The only one that poked and prodded was ML. This could have all ended if she stayed away as she was asked to.

It must be everyone elses fault that she is the way that she is...