Barbarossa tactics and strategy Options

[ScrapyardBob]

This great map has a trove of hideaways and ambush spots - Hide in cover when impossible odds approach, but then have patience to stay hidden until support arrives. Let the enemy move past you if they are unaware of you in their base. It's one less in defence you have to face when you are ready to move in.... not to mention that the SOB you kill in the back will be hunting you in your revealed location once respawned.

Agreed. If the enemy doesn't know you're there, you have surprise on your side. I've seen cases where a pair of hidden russian infantry destroyed multiple tanks as they rolled through a particular blind spot.

My defense against stealthy infiltrators is to stay alert and pass the information along to teammates. I'm sure the russians who play on my team when I'm babysitting #3 get tired of me saying "german in attic", "german in L side houses", "german sneaking around attic house". OTOH, I get a kick out of watching 2-3 russian infantry seek out and kill the intruder.

One other hint for smoke and stealth. If the enemy doesn't know you're there, you may be better off *not* using smoke. If I'm defending and I see smoke, I instantly go on alert and start looking for the source of the smoke. I'll probably even call my teammates and get them to start looking for the source. One enemy had even escaped me (I lost him, gave up) but as soon as he popped smoke I knew where he had gotten to and mowed him down.

Another way is to have someone club the artillery man's brains out with binoculars.

Nothing makes my skin crawl more then a stealthy opponent when I'm manning a stationary artillery piece. Almost all of the static guns have rather large blind spots and when you're aiming long-range you hate to move around because you'll spoil your aim. Snipers don't bother me as much. Of course, just be sure that you connect with that first swing of those binoculars.

If you setup camp next to a static artillery piece and defend them you'll usually end up with a grateful teammate.

A great map for sniper country, but the sniper has to be creative since the obvious spots are soon known by an enraged and vengeful enemy. Upgrading pistol skills prolongs your life. When you see trouble coming, don't hide- run fast and far away as possible. Barby map has great leap forward/back positions.

And a hint to all of the newbie snipers / infantry out there. Don't attempt to snipe or shoot at a tank with non-explosive rounds. The tank driver will merely thank you for pointing out a juicy target and will proceed to rain hellfire down on your position. I see this at least once per week where an enemy that I didn't know was there will start taking pot shots at my tank.

I've mostly given up on trying to explain why you shouldn't attack German #1 or Russian #2 first.


Next pictures... where to aim to attack German #3 from the rear-middle 45mm cannon on the Russian side of the map. The first image shows the treetop that you aim at to destroy the base. You do have some leeway. If you aim a bit down and to the left you can also destroy / kill the german pak at German #3. Useful when trying to soften up the area for a russian assault.



The second image shows where I was planting shells the other night to destroy bomb defusing crews at German #3. You'll see that it's just down and right of the treetop tip from the first image. (Apologies to my victim.)




And now the magic spot for the Russian #3 45mm. This spot allows you to kill whoever is on the middle german pak (which is often used to shell Russian #3). You can also aim left/right of this spot to hit the egress from the german back road as well as some of the ridge near the pak.



Shelling this point is a key tactic when the russians are attempting to plant German #1. First off, you take the pak out of commission so that it can't be used to devestate a left flank advance. Secondly, if you aim to the left a bit, you can hit germans as they stream out of the spawn on their way to reinforce German #1.

Anyone know how many hits it takes to destroy the german pak from full health? (I wish the stationary guns would stay dead for 3-5 minutes, making it more worthwhile to destroy them completely instead of just making them unattractive.)

Last image. This one is taken from the T34 that spawns at the back of the russian spawn area (behind Russian #3). This shows the approximate spot needed to shell German #2 (as long as you don't move the T34 from the starting position). On my resolution (1600x1200) there's a light-colored set of leaves that I aim just below with the crosshairs.




This post has been edited by ScrapyardBob: 01/12/06 6:54pm

[Cpt.Canuck]

Slyk, new map looks great! Can't wait!
Thanks for the hard work.

[Hellfighter]

Anyone know how many hits it takes to destroy the german pak from full health? (I wish the stationary guns would stay dead for 3-5 minutes, making it more worthwhile to destroy them completely instead of just making them unattractive.)

I'm not sure if it's dependant on the calibre of gun pounding the pak or a Rusky 45mm, but i believe a medium tank gun does it in about 10 shots.

Nice arty targeting pics btw,. This is one skill I've completely failed to acquire on the map.

First off let me thank you guys for enjoying and playing the crap out of 'Barbarossa'. I've stopped by the servers a few times and I know quite a few of our After-Hourz regulars slut their way over here now and then. One comment I have though is on the tanks. Running them at stock reload times really really diminishes the effectiveness of the BT7 and overpowers the KV1. We run slightly modded times at AHz that gives the BT a faster reload rate of about 35% or so over the Panzers. Slowing down the KV makes it more important to have some support infantry or BTs with it. And overall it adds a new angle on gameplay.

I'm a migrant, not a slut. So in other words this place is turning into a brothel due to a large number of After Hourz tarts finding there way here

I like the KV mod sincce it somewhat reflects its mechanical 'deficiencies' in the campaign.

btw, I'm curious, are the German paks, 50mm or 75mm?

ps.Great posted map layout shots!!


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/13/06 10:54am

[realdeal]

Thanks for all the info guys. Nince work Bob!

Slyk - Great work as usual! Thanks for stopping by!

[Slyk]

German pak gun is 75mm. Russian is 45mm. Their damage factors are scaled accordingly. The BT7 and Russian AT share the same cannon. The KV is a 75mm but shorter, lower velocity than the German pak40/75mm so the German AT gun gets higher velocity and range. The short barrel 75 on the PzIV is slightly less velocity than the KVs 75. The PzIII 50mm gun is just better than the Russian 45/BT7 guns.

Using the guns/tanks stock really alters the play, and as I noted before, reload times all being equal really takes away the only and best aspects of the BT7.

[ScrapyardBob]

So... experimentation time. Playing around with tanks in their starting positions.

1) As noted before the T34 in the back of the russian spawn can shell German #2 and provide shelling in support of a planting crew at German #2. I've also found that it can shell German #3 and silence the german stationary gun at German #3.

2) Both Russian heavy tanks (KV1s) can shell German #2 from their starting position. Which is good to know because the Russian T34 in the back of the spawn does not respawn. The T34 that spawns by the russian rear-middle 45mm can also shell German #2. All of these tanks can also shell German #3.

3) The Russian light tank (BT7) by Russian #1 can be used to shell German #2. Even better, with the high rate of fire it can deny access to a german defusing team. With a bit of finesse you can plant shells into the stairwell.

Needless to say... this could lead to some fast victories for the russians. We played with this last night on the russian team (SgtClark was helping?). I'd stay back and shell constantly from various positions. The germans would become desensitized to it and stop paying attention. But once we slipped a bomb planting team into their bunker they found it difficult to defuse.

4) German pak by German #3... no targets of interest that it can hit. If you could give it 1-2 more degrees of elevation, it could hit all sorts of interesting spots (Russian #1, Russian #3, Russian #2).

5) German middle pak can hit Russian #3 and the 45mm by Russian #3. Aim all the way up to the top and fire in the general direction of Russian #3. Aim a bit to the left of that to kill the 45mm gunner.

6) The german tank that spawns at the house near German #3 (left side tank) can hit Russian #3 from its starting position. In addition, it can shell Russian #2 from the starting position. Both spots were easy to find and the shelling of Russian #3 could possibly provide fire support for a bomb team. The right-hand tank at that spot doesn't seem to do much to Russian #3 (hits the houses).

7) The german PzIV that faces east in the german tank spawn can hit Russian #3. It's a moderately tricky shot due to the russian houses in front of 3. However it can land shells at the front door to Russian #3, which could provide cover for a bomb team.

Russian #3 is very tricky to hit from the german side of the map due to those houses in front of it.




This post has been edited by ScrapyardBob: 01/14/06 4:10am

[ScrapyardBob]

Russian #3 45mm stationary gun targeting chart



This image is taken from the Russian 45mm near the Russian #3 base. It shows the key spots where you can aim the pak to raise mayhem on the german side of the map. Most of these spots are hit by raising the 45mm to its maximum elevation (or possibly 1 notch down from maximum elevation).

A - S road at G2
These shells will land at the bend in the south road (but not beyond). If you aim down a notch you can pick off anyone waiting in the lower half of the south road. Possibly useful as a diversion (make the germans investigate the south road). Could also be used to desensitize the germans to noises on the south road.

B - exit area by middle pak
Shells aimed here can catch germans as they leave the back road and head down the road towards German #1. If you're planting German #1, you'll probably want fire support into this area to make it more difficult for germans to get to German #1. At other times, planting shells in this sector results in random death and mayhem on the german side of the map. Good for lowering german morale.

C - middle pak gun
This is the spot that you need to aim at in order to keep the middle german pak gun silenced. If you're on the Russian #3 45mm, you should probably plant shells at this location every 20-40 seconds. That will frustrate any would-be pak gunners and dissaude them from tossing shells into the area around Russian #3.

D - ridge / valley north of pak
Mostly useful for pyschological reasons but you may catch a german who has decided to park a tank on the hilltop. This fire sector runs from the middle german pak over to the large rock that marks the infantry-only passage through the trees (to the north of the pak). If you lower a notch, you can also plant random shells into the western hillside of the river area.

[ScrapyardBob]

Russian #3 KV1 (heavy) tank targeting chart



This is the KV1 that is parked on the south side of the Russian #3 base. Targeting is based on the KV1's starting position and uses the intersection of the "T" crosshair. Due to the extreme range vertical elevation is extremely sensitive (one notch up or down can cause you to miss your target).

A1 - south road
Shells here will land on the upper part of the south road (but not the lower portion). Useful for shelling out german defensive positions that may be setup at the upper portion of the south road. Can also be used as distraction or as desensitization fire.

A2 - German #2 bunker
A moderately difficult shot due to the narrow aspect of the german bunker. The shell arc is also very flat at that range requiring high accuracy in turret elevation. If you want to support a planting team, aim at the lower middle of the box (marked in yellow). This spot should land shells either inside the open bunker or at the doorway to the open bunker.

A3 - German #2 spawn house
None of the shells will enter the house, but you can pepper the area around the spawn house. It's not entirely sporting to shell this target sector, but you may wish to plant a shell here every so often to keep the germans off-balance. (This position can also shell the main german spawn, but I've chosen not to include that information. I'm sure you can guess where to aim using the other targeting spots.)

B1 - egress by middle pak
This is the road that exits the german area and leads down to German #1. Same tactics as the Russian #3 45mm apply here.

B2 - middle pak
Darn tough shot. No margin of error but provides an alternative to shutting down the middle pak if it's shelling the Russian #3 45mm gun position.

C1 - north pak
Also a darn tough shot. I'm not even sure this spot actually results in damage to the german pak gunner. But, if nothing else, it's going to be distracting for a few seconds.

C2 - German #3 bunker
German bunker #3 fire sector. Notice the yellow spot in the lower-left that marks the sweet spot for planting rounds into the bunker. The width of this target is wider because the german bunker is at an angle (compared to German #2).

C3 - road by German #3
You can cause a little havoc in this fire sector, but not much. Targeting isn't all that great due to the hillside (and other obstacles).

[ScrapyardBob]

Russian middle KV1 (heavy) tank targeting chart



This is the russian's heavy tank (KV1) that is parked between Russian #3 and Russian #1. Targeting is based on the KV1's starting position and uses the intersection of the "T" crosshair. This tank can hit all 3 german bases and provide good planting cover for German #2 and German #3.

A1 - area around German #2
This fire sector is the area around the German #2 base. The left side of the sector is the top of the south road (the back way to German #2). The right side is just shy of the german's spawn house by German #2. Aim low and you'll hit any german tanks that are setup near the German #2 pak gun. (Look for the purple dot on the image.) Hitting the german pak gun is difficult.

A2 - German #2 bunker
A fairly easy shot due to the tree line that you can use to sight in on. The shell arc is also very flat at that range requiring high accuracy in turret elevation. If you want to support a planting team, aim at the right side of the box (marked in yellow). This spot should land shells against the angled wall by the doorway into the open base.

A2 - German #1 bunker
You can only hit the very top of the German #1 bunker. Too low and you'll hit the hillside near the russian town, too high and you'll be landing shells around German #2.

A3 - German #2 spawn house
None of the shells will enter the house, but you can pepper the area around the spawn house.

B1 - egress by middle pak
This is the road that exits the german area and leads down to German #1. Same tactics as the Russian #3 45mm apply here.

B2 - middle pak
Darn tough shot. No margin of error but provides an alternative to shutting down the middle pak if it's shelling the Russian #3 45mm gun position.

C1 - north pak
Tough shot, but you can land shells directly on the german pak gun by German #3.

C2 - German #3 bunker
German bunker #3 fire sector. Notice the yellow spot in the lower-right that marks the sweet spot for planting rounds into the bunker.

C3 - road by German #3
You can cause a little havoc in this fire sector, but not much. Targeting isn't all that great due to the hillside (and other obstacles).

[ScrapyardBob]

German #3 left-side PzIII shelling targets



This is the left-side PzIII that spawns at the house near the German #3 base. This tank can do a good job of supporting a bomb team at Russian #3. Note that if these tanks are not there, you may need to move the jeep that blocks them from spawning.

A1 - Russian #3 45mm gun
Use this point to take out the 45mm gun behind Russian #3.

A2 - Russian #3 bunker
Tricky shot, but the shells land at a good spot to support a bomb team.

A3 - Russian foward middle 45mm gun
This is a medium-difficult target to take out. Just aim a little bit above where the shells would hit the ground in front of you. (This actually applies to most of the targets that this tank can hit.)

B1 - Russian #2 bunker
The PzIII has a very clean shot at Russian #2. Vertical elevation is still tricky but a good gunner can plant shells right into the front side of Russian #2.

[ScrapyardBob]

German left-size PzIV (facing east in tank spawn)



This is probably the most useful tank that I've found so far on the german side of the map. It can hit all of the major targets on the russian side of the map. It spawns in the main german tank park on the left side and faces east. This target points are all based on the starting position of that PzIV.

The big advantage of manning this tank at this location is you'll know if any russians are trying to sneak into your tank park. So you can do double duty at defending the german spawn area.

A1 - russian north flank 45mm gun
If you can hit this, the germans who are advancing on the left flank will probably sing your praises.

A2 - Russian #1 bunker
Somewhat tricky, but you get a very good shell placement.

B1 - egress from right side spawn
As the russians leave their right side spawn from behind Russian #3, you can attack them at this location to cause havoc. The left side of the green box allows you to shell the T34 and the KV1 that are parked at that egress point.

B2 - rear-middle 45mm gun
This is the 45mm that is between Russian #1 and Russian #3 near the main russian spawn area. There's also a jeep and a truck just to the right that you may be able to hit.

B3 - Russian foward-middle 45mm gun
This is useful for taking out that 45mm gun that can hit multiple targets on the german side of the map.

B4 - Russian #3 45mm gun
This is the 45mm cannon behind the Russian #3 base. Fairly easy shot to line up due to the opening in the trees.

B5 - Russian #3 base
Very small target window, but the shells will land in almost the perfect spot to deny entry into the Russian #3 base entrance. Very good for supporting a bomb team.

C1 - Russian #2 base
Decent sized target window. Excellent shell placement for bomb team support.

[Silver]

alot of what you say is awesome, but....

sniping is not an effective assault in the game. just clearing paks 88's etc...

tanks suck... really only effective in defense. skipping scross the map in a jeep is more effective.

Jeep awareness...
have a rocket in hand and get into jeep...

FWD scroll movements- put you in the shotgun seat enabling you to RPG the tanks... when approaching a live tank cut as close as possible to the sides of the tank, thier turrents cant turn fast enought to track you and you can bail and hit them in the rear when you pass by.

RWD scroll movements- put you on the gun... remember to aim higher then the flash on their MG to kill the gunner, aim for the driver window slot on HT to kill them. dont stay for more then a second

on foot...
use natural surroundings to hide you and stay still alot.... people see movement thats our natural sight... everytime I spawnkill at least 2 people walk right by me and dont see me... and I a in the wide open.. (dont look around at all just stright ahead)
use the lean buttons when shooting around doors etc...
shot and move....
for cover get to a place that others dont know or dont use... i have my own nests that I use to kill russians after they spawn.

Tanks....
KV1 is fast so get behind the other heavy tanks and hit them in their ass...
Rock back and forth in sync with the shells of the tank you are trying to kill.... so when they shoot they miss your tank and your shell hits them...
bail as soon as you tank is low on health and BLOW IT UP!!!

Stug is a good gun base destroying and spawnkilling...
heavytanks suck for spawnkilling...

base's
use longrange pak/88 shots to take them out
find a spot you can hit all three from one spot on the opposite side you play on... I have a spot in the german area I can hit all three w/o leaving their spawn... same as german...

Rockets- useless unless you know the map and how to kill tanks. Jeeps hate them!

PPSH- the noob gun, good short range weapon, sux for LD.
SVT- sux
Mosin_ fav gun... can spawnkill by lining up in their spawn and killing 2/3 at a time

98K- same as mosin
MP40- Better of the SMG
MP44- ok gun, too much recoil

static guns suck,
scoped guns suck, if you can hit LD with our a scope keep trying!

RM gun, easy to snipe (just ask h8)
Rm (rear) SAA
RRG(#3) Great placement!

only good gun for germans is the #2 gun... good gunner can stop a hord of russians w/o getting one hit on himself!

fastest way to Germany...
stright up the middle using sandbags and rocks for cover while in jeeper mode

fastest way to russia...
jeep it to the middle buildings and use cover to kill the pak

assaulting the middle pak...
Snipe from sandbags
snipe from door way of house closest to pak
snipe from side closest to #2 side of building closest to pak
snipe from fence line last building
jeep assault from left side
smoke the pak and nade it right away!

assaulting the russian middle pak...
shoot from between two big rocks (little rocks between them)
BASH the tard!!! sneak up middle!!!

killing spawnkillers...
russian in german... arty! thats it unless you overrun the spawnkiller...

german in russian... over run the bastard! or arty! no easy way out...

you can keep us out by staying in your spawn the whole game... but no one does it!

[ScrapyardBob]

Nah he can keep that position.

I spent way too much time mucking with that middle KV1 today. I'm gonna have to go back into my LAN server and re-check those targets. They were good for hitting the bases, but not so good for fire support.

The german side also needs some serious TLC. Right now, the russians can have German #2 and German #3 cracked wide open within the first 3 minutes of the match. Meanwhile, the germans are still milling around in spawn and trying to get tanks forward to shell any of the russian bases. I should be able to find a few more german tanks that have the ability to shell russian bases.

Although before the server hiccup'd in the late afternoon, the germans were actually holding their own for once. Most of the rounds this afternoon were either lightning fast or ended up as a stalemate.

[Hellfighter]

My defense against stealthy infiltrators is to stay alert and pass the information along to teammates. I'm sure the russians who play on my team when I'm babysitting #3 get tired of me saying "german in attic", "german in L side houses", "german sneaking around attic house". OTOH, I get a kick out of watching 2-3 russian infantry seek out and kill the intruder.

Come get me intruder hunters! Personally, I find it gets very exciting when I'm stuck in the building nearest Rusky 3, usually [secret spot] I rack up a heavy number of kills there typically 3 or 4 against the same enraged dude that came after me the 'wrong' fatal way before [hehee]. If I'm not able exit due to a known Rusky defence around 3, I wait for backup [and hopefully if I stay alive long enough, my next arty call] - things get tense when arty is running low, and then when 3 or 4 guys you've ambushed in that house all come after you at once - and your ammo is low .

I think we can refer to this as another strong strategy on the Barbarossa map. Leeching. Several spots offer a way to considerably draw in a significant number of enemy forces as a way to wait for back up or faciliate your team mates attack into that area. You need your wits to do it and it's a cat and mouse game.
Shoot tanks/jeeps in back point blank/toss satchels/dodge between rooms ceaselessly/stay in blind spots.
Don't use smoke; the idea is to let them come in to get you not knowing if you are alive. If you use smoke they'll simply just tank fire/nade or satchel the place until they know the tosser is dead.
The best areas where enemy will get clogged up in an attempt to clear out one mischievious holed up enemy are;
1] The house next to the bridge on the German left
2] The house by the hill above R1
3] The house closest to R3
4] The spawn house at G2

One other hint for smoke and stealth. If the enemy doesn't know you're there, you may be better off *not* using smoke. If I'm defending and I see smoke, I instantly go on alert and start looking for the source of the smoke. I'll probably even call my teammates and get them to start looking for the source. One enemy had even escaped me (I lost him, gave up) but as soon as he popped smoke I knew where he had gotten to and mowed him down.

That's what I often count on using smoke nades - particularly when it's man versus beast, ie- a tank defending a bunker or lurking about for your hidden presence. Want a way to swivel a tank's gun away from you as a distraction so that you have a very good chance of slipping by unnoticed, toss a smoke nade in the tank's view but 30 yds away from yourself [better at covering terrain to make it seem like you are there]. Don't throw it at the tank in such a situation he'll simply drive a bit out of it. Throw smoke nades at tanks when you want to get off a good snap-shot at it with a LATW [light anti tank weapon] or toss a satchel in its area - better to do this when tank is moving toward your hidden spot and you want it to hopefully stop onto the satchel.

And a hint to all of the newbie snipers / infantry out there. Don't attempt to snipe or shoot at a tank with non-explosive rounds.

.

Please nooby jeep MG riders pay attention to this advice!

Great sniper spots for Germans are at Rusky 2 hilltop overlooking the village in front of R3. And if R1 is last get a nice spot in the gully running across the map from which to shoot spawners exiting 1 - especially when they're on the roof.
Russian snipers inflict a good amount of casualties from the hill almost opposite the center German pak, but rather from behind the sandbags go to the right and more amidst the trees. Alternately set up close to the German pak's left and shoot krauts in the back.
Always shoot at long range, ignore sniping at targets close by.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/14/06 10:09pm

[ScrapyardBob]

Satchels - always carry a satchel!

There are numerous spots around the Barbarossa map that contain satchels. The german side of the map is a bit spare on the satchel spawns. In no particular order:

- The house nearest to the Russian #3 base.
- The house near to the Russian #1 base.
- In the covered portion of the trench near the Russian #2 base.
- In the bunker by the north flank 45mm (near Russian #2 base along N road).
- At the cluster of houses by Russian #2, the building fartherest away (down by the river with 2 dead cows outside), it's on a stack of hay bales inside.
- At the cluster of houses by Russian #2, the SW corner house (in the room with the anti-tank weapons).
- The house by the north bridge (near German #3).
- The house by German #3.

There are a few popular satchel tactics:

1) Deadman switch. This can be used as a last ditch defensive tactic or as a way of buying time against the enemy defusing your bomb. It works best in enclosed areas like the bunker basements. When the odds are getting long, lay down on the floor of the bunker near the bomb, then prime the satchel by pressing and holding the left mouse. When you are killed, the satchel will be released and will go off after a few seconds. This will kill the intruders / defusing team and possibly make the critical difference if they can't get reinforcements there in time. If you survive, hit any of your other weapon keys (1, 2, 3) to switch away from the satchel.

Why lay down? I've had the enemy walk into a bunker where I'm laying stationary on the floor by the bomb. They assumed I was dead and began to plant. They were very surprised to find out that I wasn't dead but was merely resting. In a defusing situation, this would have bought me an additonal few seconds on the clock before I killed the defusing team.

Hiding behind a smoke screen as you hear the jeeps pull up may also help. It will require the enemy to spend precious seconds finding you in the smoke while you dance around with a primed satchel.

2) Clearing a bunker. As you run up to the bunker, prime the satchel then start cooking it for a second or two. You'll want to master the art of cooking because if the enemy hears you prime a satchel, they may rush out and try to kill you. Toss it down the stairway (it must land on the floor below to have maximum effect). Best toss is either from over the right wall or the right-rear window. It will almost always kill anyone actively planting, but someone hiding against the wall fartherest away from the stairs will live. Satchels that go off in the basement will harm/kill people upstairs as well, make sure you're not inside the bunker walls when yours goes off.

Note: When clearing a bunker, you should generally assume that the enemy has rigged a deadman switch. That means that any defusing team should leave at least one member outside the bunker walls in case the enemy left a satchel behind.

My personal tactic when there are multiple of us storming a bunker is to be the satchel tosser. I then count to 5 after my satchel goes off before entering the bunker. But if there's not enough time left on the clock, I'll storm in right after my satchel goes off.

3) Other tactics include room clearing (using the satchel as a very powerful grenade), tank / jeep killing and bunker / stationary gun destruction.