Barbarossa tactics and strategy Options

[ScrapyardBob]

Other hull-down defensive / offense positions on the Barbarossa map. Hull-down / turret-down really works best in locations where you have a long field-of-view and can engage targets at long range. At shorter ranges, it makes you a sitting target.

The other requirement is that you be in a position where you cannot easily be flanked. Which is why the north pass at Russian #1 is the best example of a good hull-down defensive position.

(Hopefully we see more tank scrapes and hull-down positions in the Barb2 map... <hint hint>)

a) The depression by German #2 that holds the pak stationary gun. The main downside to this position is that if your tank gets destroyed, you make things difficult for anyone who is using the pak gun. Still, it's a good example of a "tank scrape".

B) Left edge of the map by German #3. There's a hill right by the minefield (near the house where the 2 tanks spawn). You can wait there in a turret-down position and watch the hill to the east for incoming russians. Also good for keeping an eye on the back road that leads to German #3. Downside is that you're blind to the area around the pak by G3.

c) The egress point by the german middle pak gun. You can watch both of the approaches by the German #1 base. Not really a good turret-down position, the best you can do is a halfway hull-down position. Still, you can engage targets at long-range and you'll be deadly against inbound jeeps. Biggest risk is artillery fire or snipers in the G1 ruins (or the bunker to the north of G1) taking pot shots at you with anti-tank rockets.

d) The road by Russian #2 base. This is a tough hill to defend in a tank. There are 3 approaches from the german side of the map that can see you at a long distance. And defending against the southern approaches makes you a sitting duck against the north pass. Even with the rocking motion, you'll have a tough time hitting targets in the south river approach without exposing yourself to return fire.

e) The road by Russian #3 that leads back into the right-side spawn area. Not a bad place to sit in a BT7. You can help by watching the town street along with the right-side spawn area. But you're going to be blind against any enemy movements along the outside edge of the houses (south side of town).


This post has been edited by ScrapyardBob: 01/22/06 10:53am

[ScrapyardBob]

It's good map design to keep the bases from being vulnerable to fixed gun emplacements. Even better design when you avoid situations like Foy where the stationary weapons can hit spawn points.

Needless to say, I'll still be looking for ways and locations to shell those bases from a distance. Breaking open bases within the first few minutes of the round forces the enemy to play defense to guard their bases. Doing that at a distance means the enemy will find it difficult to prevent those bases from crumbling.

[ScrapyardBob]

Why do I suspect tonight's south flank rush of the germans with 4-5 tanks against Russian #3 at the start of the 2nd round was Hellfighter's idea?

It worked very well. All of the russians except 2 of us were off playing rambo with nobody defending the south flank at all. The germans rolled our 2, immediately rolled our 3, and then rolled our 1 within the first 7 minutes.

[Maj. H8Red]

One of those quick matches you just love to hate, unless ur on the winning side, of course

[ScrapyardBob]

Hah, no, I was the sucker that stayed behind to welcome the germans as they rolled into town will all that freshly painted armor. Apparently they were in no mood to sit down and discuss armistice treaties. It was a darn good blitzkrieg up the south flank, we managed to wipe out 2-3 of the incoming tanks but the advance scouts were already slipping into the bunker and starting the plant while we were fighting off the armor.

...

Thoughts on getting around Barbarossa.

1) Walking - Definitely the slowest (although the KV1s aren't much faster). If you stick to cover, avoid well-traveled areas, you'll almost always get where you're going. Stealth is a key element, as is knowing how to break contact and evade any pursuit. It would probably take you 3+ minutes to run from one end of the map to the other.

2) Jeeps / Horches - All of the jeeps/horches (sp?) on the Barbarossa server are designed to blow up a few minutes after they leave their spawn point. So it's senseless to swipe enemy jeeps. However, jeeps are the fastest form of transport on the Barbarossa map and can get you from one corner to the other in under 30 seconds. They're also an excellent way to escape a tank and a good jeep driver should make sure to weave and dodge a bit to avoid shellfire. It may be a good plan to bail early and walk, because jeeps are noisy and will wake up most defenders. Especially if you use the machine gun.

4) The half-track. Moderately slow, but can take up to 3 shell rounds before it's destroyed. This is a great way to storm the russian village, especially if you can multiply the targets that a gunner has to deal with. Just make sure everyone knows to start bailing out as soon as incoming fire starts hitting the HT. The driver of the HT should continue in as far and as fast as possible to add to the confusion. Passengers should attempt to escape into cover and force the enemy to spend time searching (or wondering). Note that you should always blow up abandoned half-tracks (they will not auto-explode and respawn).

5) The russian truck. A bit faster then the half-track, but not as well armored. I think two good hits and it's going to go up in a ball of flame. Still a good way to deliver multiple headaches to the germans at the same time. Note that you should always blow up abandoned trucks (they will not auto-explode and respawn).

6) Light tanks (BT7, PzIII). Fast and agile (especially the BT7). The downside is that they're noisy and a prime target for just about everyone else on the battlefield. Be prepared to bail early and make sure that you destroy the abandoned tank.

7) Heavy tanks (KV1 mostly, but also the PzIV). Slow as molasses in January, but they can take a real beating (roughly 7 frontal shots). Not a great transport vehicle as they need to be guarded by infantry and other vehicles in order to make it to the front in one piece. Any infantry or light tanks that escort heavy tanks to the front are great team players.

Barbarossa definitely rewards players who are crafty and careful with each spawn. Zerg rushing a defended base typically results in failure (and lots of free points for the defender). But if you can manage to get 3-5 teammates at the target at the same time, you stand a very good chance of overrunning the defenses and taking control of the area.

Plus, sometimes the best teamplay is to provide a distraction in one sector while your teammates are planting the bomb in another sector. Especially if you can stay alive for a minute or two and cause excessive mayhem that forces the enemy to hunt you down. (Every enemy that is hunting you is one less that will be attempting to defuse the ticking bomb.)

[Hellfighter]

Why do I suspect tonight's south flank rush of the germans with 4-5 tanks against Russian #3 at the start of the 2nd round was Hellfighter's idea?

It worked very well. All of the russians except 2 of us were off playing rambo with nobody defending the south flank at all. The germans rolled our 2, immediately rolled our 3, and then rolled our 1 within the first 7 minutes.

No, not me, thanx though. All I do is cheerlead for the massive blitzkreig R3 assaults at game start until my temple veins are bulging; I long since learned organising any type of tactical attack via chat falls on deaf ears. Mostly its luck if you got enough vets who know about bypassing R2 and R1 at start to crush R3, and even more luck if they've got together in a massive wing attack on one flank. On the other hand, most likely Samoan would've 'bullied' the kraut ranks for first attack on R2 [he's a/the master of ownership of the R2 hill in a tank] then going to R3.

[ScrapyardBob]

(I feel your pain about trying to get more then 3 teammates pointed in the same direction at the same time. It's a lot like trying to push a wet rope.)

I did a bit of light reading on the Blitzkrieg topic over at Wikipedia, that battle was almost a textbook example.

Last night the russians had an infestation of germans on their side of the map. Every time I turned around on the russian side of the map you were stumbling over german bodies. Needless to say, with such poor (and porous) defense by Ivan the russians went 0-3 in the first round (not a single german base destroyed).

Calls for defense at various points went unheeded, suggestions that certain passes be guarded went unheeded, players driving right past bases being planted, and players running past tanks that were being stolen. Situational awareness was nil for the most part.

[realdeal]

Please post all Barbarossa II related posts HERE. Thanks!

[ScrapyardBob]

Okay, here's a very sweet spot for the germans to shell Russian #3 from. It does double duty as a shelling point, plus it helps the germans to protect the south road (a.k.a. the "S" curve) that leads to German #2.



Basically, you should take the PzIV and align it with the fence so that the front right corner of the PzIV fits into the little corner of the fence at that spot. Alignment is semi-crucial, but not terribly so. Just make sure the PzIV is parallel with the fence and that the fender is shoved into that spot.

You'll notice that I show 4 different shots of my attempting to get into position. Each of the 4 middle images corresponds to the upper 4 images, showing the target point. Remember, do not use the right-mouse button to zoom in. These are all un-zoomed aiming points, to allow you better situational awareness.



You can also use this spot in a PzIII, but due to the flatter trajectory of the PzIII shells (the PzIII has a higher muzzle velocity then the PzIV), you'll need to aim downward a few notches.

Other targeting notes:

- Elevation matters the most. At most, you have about 2 notches of vertical movement before you're too high or too low.

- If you're hitting Russian #2, your targeting is too far to the left.

- The PzIII is better suited for defense against russian infantry on the S road then the PzIV. The machine gun on the PzIII's turret has a better range of elevation.

[ScrapyardBob]

General notes about attempting to hit Russian #3 from a distance:

The town buildings in front of Russian #3 really really really make life difficult for long-distance shelling. As a result, the best spots to shell from are the far left flank (near German #3) or the far right flank (on the south road). Those provide enough of an oblique angle to the town that you can bypass most buildings and hit Russian #3 square on.

That being said... here's the middle german pak position to hit Russian #3:



There's also a good spot just as you're leaving the german tank park on the left side. There's a fence post in the middle of the downed fence. If you push the PzIV up against it so that the post is in the middle of the tank, there's an easy shot to Russian #3. In addition, you'll be able to guard the area around German #3.



The last good spot to park a PzIV that I have today is the very corner of the map by German #3. You'll have a modest view of the area around German #3 (to watch for inbound russians) and a reasonable shot at hitting Russian #3. Shove the tank into the corner of the map with the hull facing south.

[Maj. H8Red]

Aha, now it's time for German strategy.....

[ScrapyardBob]

Yeah, auto-assign has been cruel to me this week, often putting me on the german team.

While the one PzIV in the spawn area is great for shelling, you'll get too much flak from teammates about shelling from the starting position. (They don't grasp the concept that bases need to be opened ASAP to give the enemy things to worry about.)

So I went looking for less obvious spots that could also serve as defensive positions.

Opus X knows a spot where you can park the PzIV by the German #3 base (south side) and shell Russian #3. Basically you pull up beside the base on the right side, put the bottom of the "T" on the tip of the tall medium-green pine trees and adjust as needed. It's a fairly "loose" target in that you have 3-4 notches of azimuth and 1-2 notches of elevation.

The downside of that spot by G3 is if the rear middle russian 45mm gunner starts attempting to surpress the G3 pak gun. You'll likely end up taking incoming fire as they attempt to soften up the area around G3 for an assault.

[Maj. H8Red]

With a tank at G3 & the PAK near 1 & 2 you can bring down R3 real quick. The problem isn't bringing the bases down, it's planting them in the correct sequence. (1-3-2 or 3-1-2) for the G's. I hate autobal <~-

[ScrapyardBob]

More newbie moments.

1. Never assume that the spawn is safe territory. We saw multiple tanks exit the german spawn on the N side and drive right past a prone russian who was hiding in the weeds. (*waves* at Dolphin Girl)

2. When you spawn, LOOK AROUND.

3. Never, ever, plant a base without packing a satchel. Never storm a bunker without a satchel down the stairs or down the vent pipe. But be on the lookout for russians camping on the stairs. Also watch out for TheRapist, who camped *outside* the base and waited for a defuse team to rush down the stairs. At which point, he was about to toss a satchel down after them.

When it gets late and I'm on my last game of the night, it's relaxing to curl up with a suicide satchel and my arty binocs in the basement of a bunker. As soon as I hear a jeep that does not appear on my radar, I pop arty off then prime my satchel. If they get inside, me chasing them with a live satchel down below gives them the choice of running away (into the arty above) or staying and dying.

Or I'll just play dead on the floor with a primed satchel (press and hold the L mouse button). More then once, I'll get germans planting on top of me without noticing I'm alive. I'll simply press the R mouse (while still holding the L mouse down) to start the timer, then chase them around the bunker.

4. Listen to your teammates when they cry for help or shout out enemy positions.

Best example of this: I was in a tank, attempting to provide overwatch for a bomb team to go below at Russian #1. First german goes down the hole, gets cut to ribbons by a portable MG setup in the basement of the bunker. So I warn the next german to use grenades before entry... he goes right in, dies. I watched three more teammates go down into that bunker and die before the russians counterattacked and drove us off the R1 ridge.

Next example: Germans are warned of a russian hiding in the bunker by G1. German tank ignores the warning, drives right past the bunker and gets a rocket up the tailpipe.

Last example: Russians leave the north road undefended. Constant reminders to check the north road go unheeded. Germans manage to get 3+ tanks and infantry to Russian #1 which then goes up in flames. (The russians then had a rough time getting that many germans off of their right flank.) We've seen the same thing with G3 and G2.

...

Outtakes:

Russians manage to take down all 3 german bases to their foundations, but all of the russian bases are undamaged. I think that round ended in about 17 minutes, 3-0. We're not sure what the germans were doing that round. There was a lot of griping in the open channel by germans who were frustrated at their teammates' inability to shell any russian bases. The russians had a huge advantage that round because they could go minimal on defense without worrying about bases being planted.

Germans managed to get R1 and R3 in the first few minutes. Yet we spent the entire rest of the round attempting to take and destroy R2. That round ended up as a 2-2 stalemate. Someone was heard to quote "I thought R2 was supposed to be the easy base?".

Another quote heard this week boils down to: "It's up to the germans to win or lose."

...

5. Whoever controls the map will probably win. Which basically means:

- guard the flanks
- spread out for maximum coverage
- don't let infantry onto your side of the map
- whittle / disable / destroy / warn against any enemy incursion
- engage and destroy any enemy that you see
- watch your teammates, help them engage anything they're shooting at

(A lot of times a tank driver will manage to corner and trap an enemy infantry. But, if the tank driver gets out of the tank, they run the risk of dying and their tank being stolen. A good teammate watches for this and will go in after the trapped infantry while the tank driver keeps them pinned down.)

[Undertow]

Or I'll just play dead on the floor with a primed satchel (press and hold the L mouse button). More then once, I'll get germans planting on top of me without noticing I'm alive. I'll simply press the R mouse (while still holding the L mouse down) to start the timer, then chase them around the bunker.

I've done that when protecting the bunker I just planted. Sometimes they kill me and run out knowing I had a satchel primed. But sometimes they think I'm already dead & they ignore me and run to defuse. Thats when I stand up and bash them!