sadness Options

[Blakjak]

Good idea, stay in the war that has no forseeable end, which uses billions of dollars a day in loan money, and does little to mend the Middle East. Pulling out now would admittedly be a mistake but the route the Bush administration has chosen to take is sorry to say the least.

[UNDEAD 1]

Good idea, stay in the war that has no forseeable end, which uses billions of dollars a day in loan money, and does little to mend the Middle East. Pulling out now would admittedly be a mistake but the route the Bush administration has chosen to take is sorry to say the least.

SO WE WILL JUST UP AND LEAVE !? thats not a comitment! nothing will mend the middle east!its all about religon and oil ! never has there been peace there! ever! in ww2 there was though because of you know who! billions of dollars are now being interupted from going to terrorists!

pulling out would make the us look like we deserve another 9-11 ,and itll happen too!

[pezking]

Nah, we won't leave the war... just Iraq. We'll be packing up alot of troops soon and moving next door into Iran. Mark my words.

I've already served my time and I'm going on 34 y/old, one of my buddies is now telling me that I can be called up. I've been out forever and I'm not in military shape... might suck. Not that I wouldn't want to serve my country again, but I'm just not sure how well I could since I wasn't specialized in any area specific. I did artillery and like computers, all the technical controls have evolved since I last did anything.

[Silver]

Note to Druid and Real Deal: I'm back! haha. You're a fool if you think for a moment the war in Iraq or actions elsewhere have nothing to do with oil. The central Asian republics are excellent examples. Elections will do nothing to solve the problems of the middle east, and the american military is not nearly suited to the task at hand- a complete restructuring of Middle Eastern societies more fundamentalist, radical, and anti-American than the rulers we prop up or topple.

funny thing is bush and cheny(?) have their hands in oil and are probably profiting from the high oil prices and the middle east are playing hard ball with their oil... so why not make millions by starting a war? they ship less oil to us because it will make the demand go up, making american oil sky rocket. kinda a fucked up thought.

[UNDEAD 1]

[quote name='pezking' date='02/08/06 11:16pm' post='94030'] Nah, we won't leave the war... just Iraq. We'll be packing up alot of troops soon and moving next door into Iran. Mark my words.



i agree!it seems the whole world does not want them holding nukes!

[pezking]

Well, seeing that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad mentioned the other day that Iran is willing to go to war and die over a cartoon scares me a bit. It would be different if it were Chavez because he doesn't have a nuclear program. I'm hoping that Israel steps up to the plate and takes out Iran's nuclear facility like they did to Iraq in the early 80's. Ahmadinejad scares the hell out of me mostly because I don't think he's bluffing. If you look into his history and his campaign goals, they are similiar to those of Hitler's when he ran for power within the German government. Fragment of his speech after he was elected;

"Thanks to the blood of the martyrs, a new Islamic revolution has arisen and the Islamic revolution of 1384 [the current Iranian year] will, if God wills, cut off the roots of injustice in the world." He said, "The wave of the Islamic revolution will soon reach the entire world."

[UNDEAD 1]

IRAN is tying to pull the same crap n korea did with saying their using it for energy-wich they will except for the nukes they produce as well!

iran doesnt have china next door though!

[Blakjak]

First, note I said that leaving was not an option, but rather the methodology designed to achieve our goals is completely wrong. You are right to say that the region is problematic because of oil and religion but much of that is the West's fault. Our policies are entirely alienating despite the fact that many arab societies are interested in civil rights and democracy. In the second half of the twentieth century many Arab states turned to socialism, then secularism, finally nationalism, each ending in disaster and public dissatisfaction. The oil boom allowed Arab governments to ignore thier citizens, allowing the populous to turn to radical Islam. This trend is evident in numerous recent elections won by fundamental Islamic parties. The 20th century Arab attempt at modernity was attributed to western influence, and now many Arabs "associate the failure of their governments with the failure of secularism and of the Western path.” This compounded the impression of the west as imperialistic and oppressive.

Second, comparing Iran and North Korea (or even Hitler's Germany!) is nonsense. Iran has chosen its path to international conflict although they are, relatively speaking, well off and economically viable in the Arab world. North Korea was backed into the corner by the Bush administration against the advice of several international allies and counter to the policies of several previous U.S. administrations. Playing hard ball with North Korea left them no options or bargaining chips- essentially cornering a wounded wild animal. The current debacle with North Korea is as much the U.S.'s fault as North Korea's.

Feel free to post more comments, this is fun.

[UNDEAD 1]

Feel free to post more comments, this is fun.

im not much the writer-so bare with me -sometimes i dont get my points across well.



very good answer and i agree with you ! im not trying to put iran and korea in the same boat -simply saying - korea i know is totally different and in my opinion they do what they want when they want and care not what we or the rest of the world think but that is my opinion!

question-why now is iran all of a sudden trying to build nukes whether for weapons (of course) or energy reasons?is it because we are ocupied with the rest of the worlds affairs and they thought that the world wouldnt care? the thought of them having nuclear capibilties keeps me awake at night.

[pezking]

I thought we were pretty blind to N Korea? When we were sniffing around Iraq for WMDs, N Korea was shouting "we have some over here, check it out!" and we just rolled our eyes and said we were busy with Iraq. One huge reason, we can't win a war vs N Korea or China. Well, atleast I'm not aware that we can win a war against them. Personally I think we bit off more than we could chew with Iraq. I support the troops and I think they're doing one hell of a job. But I don't think anyone was prepared for the amount of insurgency and neighboring terrorists to join in on the fight against the infidels. They quickly turned this into a holy war, just like they always seem to do, and we don't have too many options now except to stay the course.

[Silver]

we could close off the borders and eliminate food, clothing and medical supplies and let nature take its course.. along with night time raids and persion air strikes to keep power off and destroy suspected hide outs. makeing the civilians turn in and or kill the hostiles. why should our people die, shit we did them a favor!

[UNDEAD 1]

we could close off the borders and eliminate food, clothing and medical supplies and let nature take its course.. along with night time raids and persion air strikes to keep power off and destroy suspected hide outs. makeing the civilians turn in and or kill the hostiles. why should our people die, shit we did them a favor!

china still there though!

[Silver]

fuckem... in 20 years some glacier is gonna melt away and leave their people w/o water in some part... we can always make our planes look like dragons and it will freak them out.

[UNDEAD 1]

fuckem... in 20 years some glacier is gonna melt away and leave their people w/o water in some part... we can always make our planes look like dragons and it will freak them out.

lol,i never thought about that !

[Stickman]

we could close off the borders and eliminate food, clothing and medical supplies and let nature take its course.. along with night time raids and persion air strikes to keep power off and destroy suspected hide outs. makeing the civilians turn in and or kill the hostiles. why should our people die, shit we did them a favor!

That's right! Just keep killing them 'till they don't hate us anymore!

Anyone notice that the same people who say "Attacking us only strengthens our resolve!" are the same ones that say "Just keep attacking them until they give up!"

Anyone see a problem with this logic?

Islam has a problem with hate. Dictators in the middle east and elsewhere find it useful to direct this hate against Isreal and the west so that it doesn't get directed at them. It is also fueled by legitimate grievances over the way the west has exploited them ever since their oil wealth became apparent.

The Iraqi's have not forgotten that the US was a great friend to Saddam all through the 80's, when he was using chemical weapons agains Iran and his own people. They haven't forgotten that the US sold weapons to both sides in the Iran/Iraq war. They haven't forgotten that after calling on the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam during the gulf war, the US made a seperate peace with Saddam and stood by, watching, as Saddam slaughtered those that heeded the call. And they haven't forgotten the UN sanctions that led to the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians in the 90's.

But you expect them to think that the US invasion was an altruistic act?

Terrorism isn't an ethos. It's a tactic. It's the way you fight when faced with an enemy that possesses vastly superior resources and firepower. As long as the US tries to economically or militarily impose its will on others, there will be those who resist. Terrorism is the tactic they will use.

Tell me please, how do you know when you've won "The War on Terror"?

Is anyone here aware that Iran once had a democratically elected, secular government? Or what happened to it? If not, google "operation ajax" and do a little reading. The west HAS fucked the arabs over, repeatedly and consistently. I don't ask you to agree with the arab position, or even to totally comprehend it. I only ask you to acknowlege that there ARE real reasons for the arab world to be angry with the west. The problem ISN'T that they hate our freedoms, or that they are just evil. If you think this is a simple problem, or that there is a simple solution, or, god help us, that we just haven't killed enough people, you are not only wrong, but also a FUCKING MORON!

Sorry for the disjointed post. Lots of points to cover. I hope this has given some of you something to think about.