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> Why we are at war against terrorism
Hellfighter
post 05/05/06 8:13pm
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QUOTE

I don't believe Any of these "bad Americans or UK doctors" ever high jacked a plane and caused the deaths of thousands unsuspecting people in the Middle east. This is what the post is about right?


Wrong.
Since you asked though......
I see your point Dienamic but I was replying to another post in this thread that was equating a whole society to the extremists that have a grip of terror over the non-fanatical-minded citizens in those parts. To me those terrorists are vile killing machines whose governments obviously do little to crush - out of fear or complicity, they are like cancer cells that have been permitted to spread -> globally; My point is it would be just as ridiculous for non-Westerners to label our society as evil because of monstrous predators in our society - over zealous 'reiligious' propoganda which in fact the terrorists spread to their prospective recruits...

To me killers of innocent people and kids wherever they strike are all slime of the same level. To me terrorists are unleashed demons bent on slaughtering thousands without remorse - like Timothy McVeigh and serial killers who are not too far from the tip of that iceberg. They too kill thousands out of sadistic pleasure each year. Well knowing me by now, I just don't like seeing those who did nothing to support the evil do-ers, get in the justifiable avenging crosshairs just because they're in the same 'neighbourhood'.
QUOTE

What you are all failing to remeber by even drudging up this post is; We did not order these vicious ass whipes to do this on our soil much like the way you order a pizza...



Just about everyone was for going into Afghanistan to destroy Al Quaeda and hopefully vapourise trash-bin laden. The decision to go into Iraq was about WMDs and potential ties to radical terrorists-- not 9-11 NOT 9-11.

QUOTE

I am very pissed at the government right now, but by no means do I even for 1 second have any pity on the extremist or thier kind dying in the middle east that came and killed innocent people.


I doubt you saw anything in my post that had any pity, emphathy, or rationalizing at all for terrorist scum.

QUOTE

The problem is most commonly.....they are goverened by spineless passive idiots period.


That's my point.... the general population in those countries aren't protected from the radical thugs so unless they're prepared to revolt and string up the terrorists the radicals will maintain power, but let's not assume an entire society wants to bash democracy.

QUOTE
Say what you want about America, at least we are trying to do something about it.


Again you may have missed my point.... I was pro-war like you, and anti-current Bush government now- like you.... nothing anti-american on my part there if that was the inference.


QUOTE
BTW, not trying to offend anyone, I am just damn tired of this hype.

I define anyone who would stand by and do nothing to stop terrorist spineless and yes idiotic....sorry.



I think you missed the very first part of my post;
............... I was for the move to go into Iraq based on Iraqi dissients [now known as fake] reports on WMD - call it a 'better safe than sorry' mentality / like Churchill's misgivings about the Fascists prior to WW2. ......
Not standing up to terrorists is suicidal sooner or later.



This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 05/05/06 8:30pm


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dienamic
post 05/05/06 10:19pm
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I just pulled some stuff outta your post man to make a point. I know how you stand about terrorist. BTW, I hope I did not lead you to think I am anti Bush because of his stand on terror. I am however pissed at him because when we first went into this thing he urged the American people to spend money.

Now 4 to 5 years later we are paying double for gas, up to triple for credit card intrest and many adjustable home loans are now rocketing leaving a lot of people filing bankrupcy or worse.

Yes, I am pissed about all this to no end. But make no mistake about where I stand about terrorist and anyone that would sympathize with them or thier deranged causes. To tell the truth man I am really fed up hearing about it being right or wrong.

This reminds me of our great democracy. I am not a democrat nor republican but one thing is for sure. The democrats are all for change for the better until it starts costing them something.

I am sorry if I offended you as that was not what I was trying to do. I kinda think you took it that way evident by the scripting of my post sentence by sentence. The thing that bothers me the most is everyone is a critic of what America is doing, yet they are doing little or nothing to aid in the cause.

My own business is suffering because of the economy and I know several small businesses that have already failed. Now couple that with scores of fixed income Americans that are losing thier homes because they cannot pay the increased flexable morgages that were not supposssed to go up before pay off as like the so called fixed credit card percentages.

In the end, I just don't give a shit about what everyone else thinks....my point is belly up to the bar or make room for a patron if you get my drift.

Now saying all that, again I meant you no personal harm and I truely hope you did not take it that way.

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Hellfighter
post 05/06/06 9:31am
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QUOTE(dienamic @ 05/05/06 11:19pm) *
I........

Now saying all that, again I meant you no personal harm and I truely hope you did not take it that way.


Heyyy Dienamic, absolutely no explaination needed let alone apology old chum tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif , LOL hearing someone else's viewpoint doesn't harm me at all> and usually I'm all for engaging in a lively discussion on a topic I may see from a different angle-and this doesn't mean I'm out to twist someone to drop their viewpoint, merely expose them to my opinion .... You should know I just like blabbing my point, and it reflects no disrespect to your viewpoints, which I think we both agree on many when it comes down to it. , and again I'm not a 'blame it on America' person- I personally defend American interventions alot when it's brought up in conversations ->> I just hated how Bush and coy. blew things right after Baghdad fell [leadership vacuum]- resulting in many more US/Coalition soldiers/iraqis dying needlessly. I was merely itemizing my 'issues' just so as to clarify I'm not wimpy on terrorists, and how I define mass murderers of any kind as equally monstrous. Of course globally, extremists are the no.1 menace.
I'm always your pal 2_thumbs_up_-_animated.gif [sniff, sniff *]

maybe, maybe... after the last 1500 years of constant wars, Europe is kind of hanging back from initiating major conflicts, that along with non bankrupting themselves due to engaging in a major war. Many euro nations lost all their colonies and mini-empires after ww2 so their means to finance offensive-capable armies has disappeared... in my opinion.

ps. I can emphathize with you too Dienamic. I'm self employed and alot of my $$$ depends on American tourism. Up here in Quebec I have friends with souvenir shops who are getting devastated by the big drop in Americans travelling here. You can imagine the worldwide effects. On this point I don't actually blame Bush [believe it or not ohmy.gif ]
9-11 changed everything , all over the world economically too for many 'small guys/gals' with tourism related businesses.What I wouldn't give to be first in line to drop-kick trash-bin laden and his baboon cohorts repeatedly for 48 hours straight before the rest of the free world takes their turn on him......


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 05/06/06 9:54am


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Churchill
post 06/01/06 9:04pm
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like Churchill's misgivings about the Fascists prior to WW2. ......

There is similarities to hitler and saddam

1.) Like Hitler, who repeatedly violated the terms of the Treaty of Versailles and the will of the League of Nations, Hussein has violated the conditions of the cease-fire ending the Gulf War; and, as in the German instance, his violations have been met by a plurality of nations bent on appeasement rather than disarmament.

2.) Saddam, like Adolf, participates in diplomatic dialogue to the extent that it buys him time to increase his arsenal.

3.) As Hitler used gas to perpetrate genocide upon the Jews, Hussein has used poison gas in his relentless persecution of the Kurds in his own nation.

4.) In Iraq, as in Nazi Germany, murder, kidnapping and imprisonment are employed liberally as means of squelching political discontent.

5.) Hussein tortured downed coalition airmen during the Gulf War as Hitler's Gestapo was known to do during World War II.

6.) As Hitler used the harsh economic reparations of the Versailles treaty to unify his people behind his cause, so Hussein has used the economic sanctions imposed on his nation to rally his people to his side.

7.) Hussein used the historical borders of his nation as an excuse to invade Kuwait, just as Hitler used the excuse of unifying all Germans as a premise for his occupation of Austria and the Sudetenland.

8.) During WWII, Hitler used rockets as terror weapons against the civilian population of Britain much as Saddam used Scuds against the people of Israel and Saudi Arabia.

9.) Similar to Stalin's non-aggression pact with Berlin in the previous war, which allowed Germany to focus its attention on the West, Hussein uses Yeltsin's opposition to a military solution to the current crisis as a counterweight to American and British proposals.

10.) And, lastly, Hussein, like Hitler, sports an ugly mustache that offends the fashion sense of every red-blooded American.




This post has been edited by Churchill: 06/01/06 9:06pm


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CommanderChoth
post 06/01/06 10:41pm
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I'm not a huge fan of reading to see if I am being repetitive or to see if I'm off topic. But for all of you that think we are at war against "terrorism", ask yourselves, why on earth have we done jack-shit about the genocide in the Darfur region of Sudan. No, no gentlemen. We only stop terrorism when we have interests at hand.


The truth is that this country is incapable of doing great things anymore. Our leaders no longer challenge us to sacrifice. With this mentality We couldn't have put a man on the moon, we couldn't have built a transcontinental railroad. September 11th was a tragic, tragic day, but also a hoplessly squandered opportunity. If Bush had said, you guys, we gotta give up our dependence on foreign oil, we have to make sacrifices in order to rise above these terrorists, Americans would have given everything to help build this dream. But no, instead we sought revenge, but stupid, self-interested revenge. Iraq is bullshit. Americans are dying pointlessly when we could have instead united to build a better nation.


But then again, as George Orwell said: "War is peace".


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Jerry Lewis
post 10/21/06 8:36am
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Hello,

Having worked at the WTC site after the attacks, there are no words to describe the devastation that was inflicted upon the city I love. New Yorkers are frequently harsh about their city-it's a shame it requires something like this for us us realize how much we love her.

I support the war in Afghanistan 100 percent. The Taliban were ruling that country and they supported the terrorists who planned and carried out the attacks.

However, the war in Iraq is another matter. I know Saddam is a monster, but it appears we are trying to be the world's policeman again-just like in Vietnam. Not only did we invade Iraq until false pretenses, weapons of mass destruction, but we left the enemy in our rear as we raced to Baghdad to find Saddam. We have an inadequate amount of troops to do the job right. Our invasion has only opened the door to incursion by Iran-the real threat-and have displayed a total ignorance of the history and demographic conditions of the Middle East.

Now we find ourselves in a damned if we do and damned and if don't position. We are damned if we stay-with our inadequate force-and damned if we leave.

Now the great hypocrit, Hillary Clinton, who voted for the war states we should pull out. Unfortunately, this would be a tragic mistake. President Bush refuses to give Iraq the amount of force necessary to succeed.

Thanks to our blundering opium production is at an all time high in Afghanistan and professional people who can afford to leave Iraq are doing so in great numbers. By the time we leave Iraq it will be bled dry and our enemies will declare victory. No more Junior Presidents.



Jerry Lewis sad.gif

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SFC ROSCOE
post 11/06/06 3:37pm
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QUOTE(lithium @ 07/27/04 4:05pm) *
You right Real. We will never forget Mr. Bush for his incompetence. It happened on his watch and he should be one of many responsible for it.


Lithium, You have to remember that this hanous crime was planed long before it was executed. That means that the 19 hijackers were in the United States before Bush even took office. That means that the previous administrations had even more time to prevent this. Yes, I mean Clinton and Bush Sr. We are in it now, back our troops. The only way to win this war is to get just as nasty as those we are fighting.

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Glyn Gardner
post 11/07/06 10:35am
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QUOTE(Jerry Lewis @ 10/21/06 6:36am) *
Hello,

Having worked at the WTC site after the attacks, there are no words to describe the devastation that was inflicted upon the city I love. New Yorkers are frequently harsh about their city-it's a shame it requires something like this for us us realize how much we love her.

I support the war in Afghanistan 100 percent. The Taliban were ruling that country and they supported the terrorists who planned and carried out the attacks.

However, the war in Iraq is another matter. I know Saddam is a monster, but it appears we are trying to be the world's policeman again-just like in Vietnam. Not only did we invade Iraq until false pretenses, weapons of mass destruction, but we left the enemy in our rear as we raced to Baghdad to find Saddam. We have an inadequate amount of troops to do the job right. Our invasion has only opened the door to incursion by Iran-the real threat-and have displayed a total ignorance of the history and demographic conditions of the Middle East.

Now we find ourselves in a damned if we do and damned and if don't position. We are damned if we stay-with our inadequate force-and damned if we leave.

Now the great hypocrit, Hillary Clinton, who voted for the war states we should pull out. Unfortunately, this would be a tragic mistake. President Bush refuses to give Iraq the amount of force necessary to succeed.

Thanks to our blundering opium production is at an all time high in Afghanistan and professional people who can afford to leave Iraq are doing so in great numbers. By the time we leave Iraq it will be bled dry and our enemies will declare victory. No more Junior Presidents.



Jerry Lewis sad.gif





Just some food for thought. We all know the bad guys wanna kill as many Americans as they can. We also know that a hell of alot of them are trying to kill Amerticans with tanks, APCs, cannons, grenade launchers, and M16's in Iraq. Now I'm former mil, and my wife is active duty. We both knew the risks of joining. We'd both rather fight the bad guys in Iraq, where no inocent Americans will get killed. I know that sounds harsh, but all those little IED making bastards would be trying to figure out ways to get here, if they weren't fighting there. Better to hold a war in someone else's back yard, and not your own.



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Hellfighter
post 11/08/06 1:09pm
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QUOTE(Glyn Gardner @ 11/07/06 10:35am) *



Just some food for thought. We all know the bad guys wanna kill as many Americans as they can. We also know that a hell of alot of them are trying to kill Amerticans with tanks, APCs, cannons, grenade launchers, and M16's in Iraq. Now I'm former mil, and my wife is active duty. We both knew the risks of joining. We'd both rather fight the bad guys in Iraq, where no inocent Americans will get killed. I know that sounds harsh, but all those little IED making bastards would be trying to figure out ways to get here, if they weren't fighting there. Better to hold a war in someone else's back yard, and not your own.



Ok, Hellfighter took a break- but for all the masochistic fans of his legendary biblical length posts, now another - a rehash of former points, with some fresh input on the heels of yesterday's election. I'm guessing a hornet's nest will be stirred up again here- amicably of course wink.gif ;-


Those bad guys are killing not just americans, but everyone who wants to see Iraq turn into a nation of democratic free-will; ie, kill everyone else who doesn't have psycopathic murderous tendencies like themselves. They kill Iraqi police [over 100 in October], soldiers. officials- they set of maximum effect explosives in market places to mow down people/kids/old folk by the dozens who are simply just going out to buy dinner.

Now I'm back in this resurrected thread. More due to what with the shakeup in the election yesterday.

Like I stated, I was for the move to go into Iraq- not out of the misguided, presumptive notion sadamn was involved in 911 but out of fear reports of wmd was worth the gamble- particularly since sadamn played poker with the world and not allowing full inspection to once and for all prove to everyone there were no wmd threats as put forth by the neo-cons and devious iraqi dissidents at that crucial opening stage. While I personally don't agree with the war being for oil argument [simply because there would be no war if sadamn had let in the UN inspectors to see there was no wmds there- like Wellington wouldn't havefought a battle of Waterloo if his Prussian allies didn't promise to come and crucially help him beat Napoleon], one might be suspicious with the increase of airstrikes on Iraqi radar/AA positions in the months before thw war... something was in the air.

I made my point how I was optimistic that up to taking Baghdad, the military did their job expertly, but then Bush and coy blew the advantage and initial welcome by in fact showing there was ineptness in not having a temporary infrastructure set up to smooth a secure transition to a post-sadamn leadership in Iraq. Rumsfeld and his casual grinning demeanour blowing off the first initial criticisms of insecurity at that time disturbed me. Then it was infuriating to see the show of bravado by the neo-cons when the real innocent death toll started to significantly mount-> iraqi police recruits continuously massacred while waiting to sign-up, locals in fear of mob rule in the streets due to a near-total disbandment of Iraqi military, and then a very slow adoption of super armoured vehicles for US troops due to the same air of smugness by Rumsfeld not conceding there was indeed a problem -more innocent young and old heroes dying/maimed. Then in their cockyness neo-cons babbled about invading Syria, and Iran! more backyards/more innocent lives. Keep in mind too that Rumsfeld offered to resign early on in the war and Bush wanted to hear nothing of it. I'm just hearing now Rumsfeld is resigning - too little too late.

All indications are, that yesterday's election results point to a vote against Bush's policy. Although the more extreme elements of repubs put me off, I find the democrats a bit laughable considering themselves competent when they still haven't put forth a good exit strategy for Iraq. No discussion comes up concerning the reality. While dispensable pee-on suicide bombers endlessly flood into Iraq, the Talibums are resurging their influnce in Afghanistan- a crucial point I've noticed nearly ignored by all US major news networks. Can't imagine that the real terrorist hierarchy aren't breathing a sigh of relief now that we've taken our eye of the ball - the 'real' area we should've finished mopping up. It's like the classical military strategy to send a feint somewhere far away to divide the opponents forces and weaken their effectiveness on both Fronts. Well we're all hoping to see a constructive coalition adopted between the repubs and democrats [and Liebermann]. as it stands in my opinion too many innocent soldiers and civilians are dying with the indecisive attitudes of both partys.... 'stay the course' won't work since the enemy have unlimited pee-on volunteer martyrs, and the democrats need to start itemizing what the exit strategy is otherwise we'll end up 'staying the course' with no other valid options available.

Sure, I agree about taking on war-mongerors in their backyard.... but not starting a dust-up [let alone endlessly protracting it] with war-mongerors in the yard of folks who themselves aren't the war-mongerors. Let's get back to mopping up Afghanistan totally and 'inspiring' Pakistan to totally root out the al-kooka leadershi* - the real global threat.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 11/08/06 1:12pm


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gone2lake
post 01/29/07 11:31am
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my political party shall remain anonymous. i will say this: if an elected president will secure our borders and WHEN NECESSARY kick the punk a$$ of any nation or group that threatens our blessed homeland, AMEN to that ! be it dem or republican, if you protect USA, God bless you.



if you think that by 'leaving terrorists alone' will decrease or stop their mission you are SADLY mistaken. God bless our Freedom Fighters.



Bush WILL put a missile in your nugget if you F with america. Be GLAD or go buy Arabic for Dummies....



Send some rice, corn, and medicine to the starving and send some shock and awe to the disillusioned ones who think they can mess with the USA.



just my opinion which by the way was secured by the blood of the brave men who lost their lives in past confilcts.





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Hellfighter
post 01/30/07 7:33pm
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QUOTE
.... WHEN NECESSARY kick the punk a$$ of any nation or group that threatens our blessed homeland, AMEN to that ! .... if you protect ..... God * [Allah]* bless you.

I wonder if that's the battle hymn for the insurgents and assasins in Iraq too.....






QUOTE(gone2lake @ 01/29/07 11:31am) *
.........
just my opinion which by the way was secured by the blood of the brave men who lost their lives in past confilcts.







The people have spoken- wars people believe in are win-nable; 70% of Americans don't want their kids in that war- neither do many of the GENERALS! If you're willing to spend the next 70 years of your life patrolling Baghdad, go register- that war between factions isn't going to end on the West's terms. So what if you win by flodding 300,000 top quality US troops- As soon as you leave [due to the crippling budget that would cost] the same old crap starts up again.
So now you go sign-up and do 3 or 4 tours under Mr.Bush's policy of patrolling and bearing the brunt of fighting while Iraqi soldiers hold back. Where's the line-up of patriotic, doomsday prophesizing, fire-breathing neo-cons and hard-right repubs who are willing to stand in for the young american men and women soldiers - and older soldiers doing multiple tours dying and wounded by assasination tactics and ..... where are you?


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/30/07 7:38pm


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gone2lake
post 01/31/07 4:06pm
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QUOTE(Hellfighter @ 01/30/07 7:33pm) *

QUOTE
.... WHEN NECESSARY kick the punk a$$ of any nation or group that threatens our blessed homeland, AMEN to that ! .... if you protect ..... God * [Allah]* bless you.

I wonder if that's the battle hymn for the insurgents and assasins in Iraq too.....


call God by whatever name you wish. the FUNNY thing is that He already knows what was, what is, and what will be in the future.... you and I are just a couple of mere mortals with OPINIONS.... he will judge us both when that day comes



QUOTE(gone2lake @ 01/29/07 11:31am) *
.........
just my opinion which by the way was secured by the blood of the brave men who lost their lives in past confilcts.



where are you?




i'm right here. expressing my freedom of speech. and yes, i bet that is their battle hymn. i'm for peace, but sometimes it's not an option.



whatever you think is fine with me. i'm also of the belief that only GOD can judge me... so please don't try to argue points with me. I believe what I believe. You're certainly welcome to your beliefs. i will not attempt to sway you from yours. I think Bush has balls and I support him. I take it you don't like him. ok, we'll have to agree to disagree.



that's where 'I am'.

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Hellfighter
post 02/02/07 4:50pm
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QUOTE(gone2lake @ 01/31/07 4:06pm) *
..... ok, we'll have to agree to disagree.



that's where 'I am'.



LOL, I enjoy the debates- taking apart each others points is healthy- sometimes we inadvertently see things from a totally new angle. And I guess we all have our own versions of how we're judged and if there is a judgement day once we're done as expired goods - that's all personal faith-unless you've been there and back and know something most of us don't know.


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