Slavery Reparations, your thoughts? Options

[pezking]

I read this the other day and was blown away. I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm not racist at all, but I think grouping white people as a whole and saying, "pay reparations" isn't right. Seeing that there are a lot of white people whose families fought for slave rights in the Civil War and not to mention the huge immigration from Europe in the late 1800's and early 1900's of which weren't even involved in slavery. How are these people responsible? I guess I'm also tired of hearing people complain about stuff like reparations, especially when other groups have had worse happen to them... let's revisit the American Indian and talk about how they are STILL getting screwed by the US govt, which isn't just white people. Well, this is a good essay that I think puts things into a new perspective. I'm eagerly awaiting Mr. Gates response.

This is not for those with thin skin. No punches pulled!

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. is the chairman of Afro-American studies at
Harvard and is demanding that whites pay reparations to blacks for slavery. Fred
Reed is a reporter that presents an interesting essay on this subject.

So How Many Slaves Do You Own???
For those of you unfamiliar with Fred Reed, he's a police reporter for
one of the large Washington newspapers....... Anyway, Fred publishes,
(published) a weekly online column in which he got to say the things his editors
would never, ever have let him write in the paper. His stuff is iconoclastic
and various articles have probably offended everyone regardless of political
orientation.

So, with the warning that "This is definitely not politically correct", here comes Fred.

The following is an essay regarding the failings of a system and a
culture. Please note that he elegantly describes the mood of many
Americans and he does so without prejudice.

Slavery Reparations...by Fred Reed

On the Web I find that Henry Louis Gates Jr., the chairman of Afro-
American Studies at Harvard, is demanding that whites pay reparations to
blacks. It's because of slavery, see. He is joined in this endeavor by a
gaggle of other professional blacks. I guess he'll send me a bill, huh?
I feel like saying, "Let me get this straight, Hank. I'm slow. Be
patient.

You want free money because of slavery, right? I don't blame you." I'd
like free money too. Tell you what. I believe in justice. I'll give you a
million dollars for every slave I own, and another million for every year
you were a slave. Fair enough? But tell me, how many slaves do you
suppose I have? In round numbers, I mean...Say to the nearest dozen. And
how long were you a slave?

Oh. In other words, I owe you reparations for something that I didn't do
and didn't happen to you. That makes sense. Like lug nuts on a birthday
cake.

Personally, I think you owe me reparations for things you didn't do and
never happened to me. I've never been coated in Dutch chocolate and
thrown from the EiffelTower. I'll bet you've never done it to anyone. I
want reparations. Kinda silly, isn't it?

But if we're going to talk about reparations, that's a street that runs
in two directions. You want money from me for what some other whites did to
some other blacks in another century. How about you guys paying whites
reparations for current expenses caused by blacks? Not long ago blacks
burned down half of Los Angeles, a city in my country. Cities are expensive, Hank. Build one sometime and you'll see what I mean. Whites had to pay taxes to repair Los Angeles for you. You can send me a check.

Now, yes, I know you burned LA because you didn't like the verdict in the
trial of those police officers. Well, I didn't like the verdict in the Simpson trial. But I didn't burn my house and loot Korean grocers. Over the years blacks have burned a lot of American cities: Newark, Detroit, Watts, on and on.

Now add in the fantastic cost over the years of welfare in all its forms,
of large police forces and jails and security systems in department stores.

I can't live in the capital city of my own country because of crime
committed by blacks. Toss in the cultural cost of lowering standards in
everything for the benefit of blacks. See what I mean?

Now, I'd view things differently if you said, "Fred, blacks can't get
anywhere in a modern country without education. We know that. We need
better schools, smarter teachers, harder courses, books with smaller
pictures and bigger words. Can you help us?" I'd say, "Hallelujah!
Hoo-ahh! Not just yes, but hell yes. Let's sell an aircraft carrier and
get these folks some real schools and get them into the economic
mainstream." I'd say it partly because it would be the right thing to do,
and partly, because I'd like to add you guys to the tax base.

The current custodial state is expensive. I'd just love for blacks to
study and learn to compete and stop burning places. But is it going to
happen? You may not believe it, but I, and most whites, don't like seeing
blacks as miserable and screwed up as they are. I spend a fair amount of
time in the projects. Those places are ugly. It's no fun watching
perfectly
good kids turn into semiliterate dope dealers who barely speak English.
It just plain ain't right. But, Hank, what am I supposed to do about it?
I can't do your children's homework.. At some point, people have
to do things for themselves, or they don't get done.

Maybe it's time.

I'll tell you what I see out in the world, Hank.. I think blacks are too
accustomed to getting anything they want by just demanding it. True, it
has worked for over half a century. Get a few hundred people in the
street, implicitly threaten to loot and burn, holler about slavery, and
the Great White Cash Spigot turns on. Thing is, whites don't much buy it
any longer. Most recognize that what once was a civil-rights movement
has become a shakedown game. Few people still feel responsible for the
failings and inadequacies of blacks. Political correctness keeps the lid
on
-- but everyone knows the score, which scares me, Hank.

On one hand, blacks hate whites and incline toward looting and burning.
(The whites you hate are the ones who marched in the civil-rights
movement.

Ever think about that?)

On the other hand, whites quietly grow wearier and wearier of it. Not
good.

On the third hand (allow me three hands, for rhetorical convenience),
blacks keep demanding things. As I write, you demand reparations for
slavery. Blacks in Oklahoma (I think it was) want money for some ancient
race riot. Other blacks reject the Declaration of Independence, blacks in
New York hint broadly at burning and looting over a trial, yet more demand
the elimination of the Confederate flag, and the federal equal opportunity
apparatus, which means blacks, wants to sue Silicon Valley for not hiring
nonexistent black engineers.

That's a lot of demanding for one month, Hank. What happens if whites ever
say, "No"?

Now, how about you? You've got a cushy job up there at Harvard, and you
can hoot and holler about what swine and bandits whites are. I guess it's
lots of fun, and you get a salary for it. But don't you think you might
do
blacks more good if you told them to complain less and study more?

For example, if you want blacks to work in Silicon Gulch, the best
approach might be to find some really smart black guys, and get them to
study digital design, not Black Studies. That's how everybody else does
it. It works. Then blacks wouldn't feel left out, and racial tension would
decline.

Sound like a plan? Just out of curiosity, how many hours a week do
professors of Afro-American Studies spend in the projects, encouraging
poor black kids to study real life sho-nuf subjects?

[Undertow]

Tell you what. I believe in justice. I'll give you a
million dollars for every slave I own, and another million for every year
you were a slave. Fair enough?

This act is just retarded! My family came over from Germany & Sicily in the late 1800's & early 1900's & NEVER OWNED A SLAVE! Why should I give a black person money for that? How much money do the Jews stand to make off the Germans for the holocaust? Oh that's right the Jews aren't asking for money for something that happened to them that was much worse than slavery! Not to mention, Not as many years ago as slavery. This is just another case of people wanting something for nothing. Want money? Get a job!

[Maj. H8Red]

I am so goddamned tired of hearing that blacks want reparations because of slavery. Their reparations were paid when the U.S. bought a country called Lyberia & offered a boatride over there to any & all that wanted it, that's not good enough? What about the Jews seeking reparations? How about the American Indians or just about every ethnic group to ever exist! I think it's just plain bullshit to expect money for something that happened so long ago.....

[FeezyWeezy]

How much money do the Jews stand to make off the Germans for the holocaust? Oh that's right the Jews aren't asking for money for something that happened to them that was much worse than slavery! Not to mention, Not as many years ago as slavery.

West Germany has paid out more than $35 billion in reparations to the Zionist state and to millions of individual "victims of National Socialism."

World War II reparation, according to the Potsdam conference

Germany was supposed to pay 20 billion dollars and committed in machines and movable goods, mainly to Soviet Union. Most of reparations stopped in 1953. West-Germany was almost exempted from reparations and was also part of the Marshall Plan. In the end, war victims in many countries were compensated by the property of Germans, that were expelled after World War II.

according to the Treaty of Peace with Japan and the bilateral agreements

Japan agreed to pay about 1 trillion and 30 billion yen. For countries renounced any reparations from Japan, she agreed to pay indemnity and/or grants in accordance with bilateral agreements.

according to the Paris Peace Treaties, 1947

Italy agreed to pay reparations of about US$360 million to Yugoslavia, Greece, the Soviet Union, Ethiopia, and Albania.

Finland agreed to pay (and paid) reparations of about US$300 million to the Soviet Union.

Hungary agreed to pay reparations of about US$300 million to the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia.

Romania agreed to pay reparations of about US$300 million to the Soviet Union

Bulgaria agreed to pay reparations of about US$70 million to Greece and Yugoslavia

The government of the United States officially apologized for the Japanese American internment during World War II in the 1980s and paid reparations.



Learn your facts before you post something about the second world war. As germany did pay reparations.



This post has been edited by FeezyWeezy: 03/23/06 11:57am

[flatliner]

this is a heavy and tired topic. every year the idea of "reparations" is brought up and it just gets sillier. My family was in europe as well during that time, growing hops and crushing grapes. That still does not separate me from american history. I cannot compare world wars (or at least that is what americans call them) to the plight of the black americans. It is much deeper than one mans opinion, and this one man is leaving it way alone. especially on a gaming thread.

[Undertow]

My bad Feezy, Didnt know there was compensation for that. I guess I'm not old enough to remember. But do you think its fair for white Americans to pay black Americans compensation for slavery when neither of the two races are actually slave's or own any slave's. Wouldn't that be like the Jews today wanting compensation for being slaves to the Egyptians in 1400 BC. Or did the Egyptians compensate them for that too? Bottom line is, Slavery was abolished almost 150 years ago. If there is anyone still alive that was actually a slave, then by all means compensate them. But the blacks that want the money were never slaves. And they want the money from white people that have never owned a slave. Being made to pay reparations for something I never did seems a bit ridiculous to me.

[Hellfighter]

Tell you what. I believe in justice. I'll give you a
million dollars for every slave I own, and another million for every year
you were a slave. Fair enough?

This act is just retarded! My family came over from Germany & Sicily in the late 1800's & early 1900's & NEVER OWNED A SLAVE! Why should I give a black person money for that? How much money do the Jews stand to make off the Germans for the holocaust? Oh that's right the Jews aren't asking for money for something that happened to them that was much worse than slavery! Not to mention, Not as many years ago as slavery. This is just another case of people wanting something for nothing. Want money? Get a job!

I'll try to be fairly objective in this field. Coming from a carib background myself I do get very surprised by activities of a few prominent afro-american 'leaders' and how they can't begin to fathom how dopey some of their ideas sound to the average person regardless of their background. In fact talk about inadvertently boosting recruitment for aaryan extremist groups!

With the bits n pieces I know of Afro-american history here are my objective views apart from some mentioned already. Basically I think the time for reparations should be taken care of very shortly after a collosal injustice... like Canadians of Japanese and axis-country backgrounds sent to internment camps here in WW2.
Someone mentioned the jews; one can argue they got a 'homeland' as a result of the Holocaust. I draw a parallel with that to the reconstruction era after the American Civil War which ended up being a fiasco by all parties involved - black and white. In my opinion this was the time where 'reparations/restitutions' could have and should have been exercised. This post-war period makes interesting reading, if you want to look into that topic deeper.

Aside from that viewpoint, we can all assume somewhere in our own family histories we had ancestors who were enslaved- yet no claim of restition brought up against them;
The Slaveowners being; Romans, 'barbarian tribes' of Europe, Slavs -eastern europe [where the word 'slave' originated from], Mongols, civilised Ancient Greeks, feuding east/west African tribes [even today Sudan is engaged in slavery], north Africa, Arab slavetrade with African tribes, and not to mention white American civilians captured by Arab Barbary coast pirates 2 centuries ago being slave-traded and tortured by the hundreds among Arab tribe leaders [remember 'from the halls of Montezumah [?] to the shores of Tripoli.... geezus there were even black slave owners prior to the Civil War in New Orleans and to top it off these guys formed black confederate militia units -> and putting the cherry on top of that, near the war's end, the confederate government was seriously considering drafting 10s of thousands of blacks into their army. Then there are the blacks of the caribbean largely descendants of former slaves not seeking reparations either.

Nothing better than a dose of reality checks and information is better to stop these folks who are looking for treatment beyond the call of fairness. I'd advise more a reaction of scoffing at the claims, than getting overly irate and going down to the level they want you to play at. Smart reasoning and arguments will see that such grandstanding for 'timed-out' charity will not get too far.




This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/23/06 12:24pm

[Nothing]

Either way Feezy, in my opinion all the blacks in the USA should be happy to even be here in the first place. Would they rather be back in the bush?

[flatliner]

sorry for the repeat post,

Dave Chappelle did a hilarious bit on his show about reparations. I about pissed my knickers. I also would pay the lovely nubian princess in my avatar anything she wanted...

"I'm rich beeeotch!!!""""

lol

[Hellfighter]

Oh that's right the Jews aren't asking for money for something that happened to them that was much worse than slavery!

Can you really say there's a level of what's worse than each other?,,,,, not to mention 'much worse'.

[pezking]

Hellfighter's post nailed it on the head. Somewhere along the way, every civilization has been enslaved or wronged at one point. This ofcourse doesn't mean that American slavery was okay. Reparations were met after the Civil War, btw. Each slave was given money, bonds, and a piece of land. My mother and step-father live in east VA and most of the community is black rednecks. They are all living on the land that their ancestors were given after the war.

I wouldn't be against reparations being paid to people that can actually trace their ancestors being slaves by families that have been traced back to being slave owners... but then again, at the time it wasn't a crime. It's a grey area. I definately think it's wrong to accuse all white people for slavery. No one ever mentions that the slaves were sold by their own people in Africa either. People also don't mention that after the war, a lot of slaves stayed on the farm they had been working because it was a job.

I still think if anyone has a "bitch" about reparations, it should be the American Indians. Every year they get more and more of their reservations taken away, or atleast parts of them. They found oil on a reservation in New Mexico a few years ago. US Gov stepped in and took the land from them. B.S. I really wish they'd make a movie about the attrocities to the Indians, push it back in the spotlight. They have suffered over and over again while they never did anything wrong. If anything, they attempted to co-exist with Europeans that took over their country.

BTW, that Chappelle episode was AWESOME! Tron was the richest guy in the world. KFC stock shot through the roof! LOL!

[Hellfighter]

Either way Feezy, in my opinion all the blacks in the USA should be happy to even be here in the first place. Would they rather be back in the bush?

That arrogant and lofty statement surprises me coming from a 'reasonable' person. That remark takes on a tone of they should feel 'they' owe.Firstly, not all blacks you see in the States were here 400 years ago, but came to make their dream like most other immigrants. Second, the blacks that were brought here and their ancestors were not all cotton pickers- and even though that industry contributed largely to the good times America nowadays can afford, remember too that their were many skilled tradepersons who were slaves and as well as many free ones, you know, the guys who invented the traffic light and another who made improvements on Edison's light bulb. so while the attitude of one owes the other may be prominent on some minds, realistically the effort was shared . that statement could be easily turned around > americans should be more than glad the blacks were here help them become as powerful as they are today.

Anyone of you out there harbouring the same living in the 'bush' sentiment, need to take a serious read at what many parts of Africa were prior to the 15th century... take for instance the kingdom that used to rule in current day Zimbabwe..... these guys had trade routes extending through East India and to even China.... the ancient west African kingdoms flourished with gold trade routes covering vast distances. Contrary to many thinking that Africans only lived in bush huts, they had walled cities too. You might even want to research who ruled lower Egypt fot several centuries around 600B.C. while northern eurpoeans lived in huts. I'm not trying to come off as being arrogant but every civilisation has its time and place, and the African nations of old did have their time of prominence. too many times the old 'victorian' attitude prevails that the Africans were mere heathens, when in fact christianity and judaism was practised in ancient black Africa in their early stages. Crusaders came upon black christian outposts in north africa on their way to Jerusalem. How about the jewish black Falasha of east Africa and the belief the 'Lost Ark' is in that area.

Also, wouldn't anyone who wants a break rather be in the U.S... aren't their hundreds of europeans illegally working in Florida too. You need to look at the status of many current day black African nations too. Several are not just bushes as you might be inmpying if one goes 'back' there. They have built up metropolitan cities, Nigeria has its own satellite in orbit. The management of some of these nations is not stellar but you do them an injustice to refer to them as bush-countries when they have so much to battle against [including corrupt leaders and little caesers - and all that not asking for reparations either.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/23/06 1:12pm

[Undertow]

Oh that's right the Jews aren't asking for money for something that happened to them that was much worse than slavery!

Can you really say there's a level of what's worse than each other?,,,,, not to mention 'much worse'.

I'm not saying either are good. I was thinking in the mind set of; If I had to choose between being a slave on a plantation somewhere or being locked up in a concentration camp held by nazi's. I'd probably want to be on the plantation. Thats all. And besides I was wrong as Feezy pointed out, they got compensated.

[pezking]

Also, wouldn't anyone who wants a break rather be in the U.S... aren't their hundreds of europeans illegally working in Florida too.

You call them Europeans? I call them Hispanics.

I just have to say "wow"

I wasn't sure if anyone would even post on this thread. I'm very impressed with the responses so far.

[Maj. H8Red]

Yeah one helluva turnout on this one