Is Torture Justified?, University Paper.. Options

[Slimshady]

I'm writing a paper and whether or not torture is a justifiable act. I just wanna hear some your opinions, later i'll put up some scenarios to see how you fell about them.

Thanks

[pezking]

Yes, under certain circumstances. I'm not for electricuting testicals or cutting fingers off. If we could do something to one person or a group, such as sleep deprivation, that would lead to obtaining information that could stop or prevent another 9/11 type terrorist attack, I'm all for it.

If you step back and look at what's going on, we're all concerned about how these terrorists are treated. Technically, they aren't soldiers and aren't affiliated with anything except a militia. They aren't covered by the Geneva treaty laws, as far as I know. I don't understand why people are feeling sorry for them if they don't have their books to read while in prison or if the music is too loud. If our soldiers are picked up by the terrorists, they're not given closely the same treatment. They are typically killed or held hostage till they are killed later. I wish we'd stop being so damn PC all the time cause that's what the terrorists are thriving off of. That's one reason why the cut the heads and show it on video... they know we'll be shocked, where as that's probably the same as a hanging over there.

Personally, I think the Middle East values human life very differently than the West. I think it's a bad thing, but can really see how they can take it to their own advantage.

[Cross of Iron]

My veiw on torture,is that..YES it could give you info,BUT would it be correct or just BS as the Suspect just wants you to stop torturing them.

Thats why Goverments would condone it,plus its against Geneva convention.

[blk96gt]

I agree with what pezking said, but I have some more to add.

I think people should actually be punished for crimes, not thrown in jail. You raped someone? Good for you, now you're going your dick chopped off and then raped in the ass repeatedly with a cucumber. I can bet you they wouldn't rape anyone again. You got caught stealing? Well you suck at being a thief, so lets start by cutting off a finger. What's that you say? Got caught stealing again? Not only do you suck horribly at being a theif, but you look like even more of a jackass after you get two more fingers chopped off. They should probably get get the shit whipped out of them with a cane too. You murdered someone and it wasn't in self defense? That is fine, but the punishment will be so bad that you will wish you were already dead while you're dieing.

Anyways, that's my system. There's a few odds and ends that should be worked out, like the age at which this stuff happens. I would think 14-15 would be a good number, since someone that age should know better than to do anything like that.

[Old Man Mike]

Jack Bauer for president. Enough said.

Old Man Mike

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

I agree with what pezking said, but I have some more to add.

I think people should actually be punished for crimes, not thrown in jail. You raped someone? Good for you, now you're going your dick chopped off and then raped in the ass repeatedly with a cucumber. I can bet you they wouldn't rape anyone again. You got caught stealing? Well you suck at being a thief, so lets start by cutting off a finger. What's that you say? Got caught stealing again? Not only do you suck horribly at being a theif, but you look like even more of a jackass after you get two more fingers chopped off. They should probably get get the shit whipped out of them with a cane too. You murdered someone and it wasn't in self defense? That is fine, but the punishment will be so bad that you will wish you were already dead while you're dieing.

Anyways, that's my system. There's a few odds and ends that should be worked out, like the age at which this stuff happens. I would think 14-15 would be a good number, since someone that age should know better than to do anything like that.

Geez, why are you guys fighting Al Qeda and the Taliban? Sounds like you'd make lovely dance partners. You want exactly the same thing.

One question though. After you chop of someone's dick and rape them in the ass with a cucumber, then find out the person was actually innocent, exactly how do you correct that mistake?

[Slimshady]

One question though. After you chop of someone's dick and rape them in the ass with a cucumber, then find out the person was actually innocent, exactly how do you correct that mistake?

Excellent point, see one problem with allowing torture is the fact the person we are torturing may not have any information that we need. There was a case not to long ago of a man suspected of being involved with the 9/11. He was sent to Jordon.. maybe, i'm not sure. Either way he was sent somewhere that torturing people is a acppectable way of interrogating someone. He was torture for over a year before they found out that he had nothing to do with it. I believe that it was still only a small price to pay.. because if that man did know something then it could have been possible to save hundreds of lives. In my opinionn death is unrated and pain is over rated. However sending him to another place for someone esle to torture him because our laws don't allow it.. isn't that the same as us torturing him? Shouldn't we be held responsible for these actions? Just because we weren't the ones that actually doing the torturing we still gave our premission to do so for our benifits, to me that is the same as if we done the torturing, and we should be held responsible.

Torture if used at all, should only be used to save lives not to punish anyone. If it is used for punishment then you are just as bad.. actually worst then the person who commited the crime.

So far no one had said that they think torture should never be used. Which is unusual because most people think that. Due to human rights and just being humane in general. I believe that torture should only be used in the most extreme circumstances..

For example.. If there was a suspected terrorist was being held, and we had enough evidence to suspect him to be involved with a bomb that was supposed to go off sometime today. you have done everything you could to try to get the information from him and he has givein you nothing. Would you torture him to try to save hundreds maybe 1000's of lives? Most people would say yes, but keep it from the public.. And then questions our accoutibility of our goverments and our democratic society, and how everything is supposed to be recorded and taken note of..

So I don't know.. this topic is fucked in all different ways.. it seems like no matter what decision is made there is no right decision. No matter what happens something has to be done wrong, human rights will have to be broken.. it is just whether it is going to be the terrorist or the innocent people that are the target..

[flatliner]

My wife thinks torture is fine...

wait, did I say that out loud?

[blk96gt]

Geez, why are you guys fighting Al Qeda and the Taliban? Sounds like you'd make lovely dance partners. You want exactly the same thing.

One question though. After you chop of someone's dick and rape them in the ass with a cucumber, then find out the person was actually innocent, exactly how do you correct that mistake?

Oops?

This post has been edited by blk96gt: 03/07/07 4:00pm

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

One question though. After you chop of someone's dick and rape them in the ass with a cucumber, then find out the person was actually innocent, exactly how do you correct that mistake?

Excellent point, see one problem with allowing torture is the fact the person we are torturing may not have any information that we need. There was a case not to long ago of a man suspected of being involved with the 9/11. He was sent to Jordon.. maybe, i'm not sure. Either way he was sent somewhere that torturing people is a acppectable way of interrogating someone. He was torture for over a year before they found out that he had nothing to do with it. I believe that it was still only a small price to pay.. because if that man did know something then it could have been possible to save hundreds of lives. In my opinionn death is unrated and pain is over rated. However sending him to another place for someone esle to torture him because our laws don't allow it.. isn't that the same as us torturing him? Shouldn't we be held responsible for these actions? Just because we weren't the ones that actually doing the torturing we still gave our premission to do so for our benifits, to me that is the same as if we done the torturing, and we should be held responsible.

Torture if used at all, should only be used to save lives not to punish anyone. If it is used for punishment then you are just as bad.. actually worst then the person who commited the crime.

So far no one had said that they think torture should never be used. Which is unusual because most people think that. Due to human rights and just being humane in general. I believe that torture should only be used in the most extreme circumstances..

For example.. If there was a suspected terrorist was being held, and we had enough evidence to suspect him to be involved with a bomb that was supposed to go off sometime today. you have done everything you could to try to get the information from him and he has givein you nothing. Would you torture him to try to save hundreds maybe 1000's of lives? Most people would say yes, but keep it from the public.. And then questions our accoutibility of our goverments and our democratic society, and how everything is supposed to be recorded and taken note of..

So I don't know.. this topic is fucked in all different ways.. it seems like no matter what decision is made there is no right decision. No matter what happens something has to be done wrong, human rights will have to be broken.. it is just whether it is going to be the terrorist or the innocent people that are the target..

I don't think torture should ever be leagally sanctioned. The world where you have a guy you know has info that will lead directly to a bomb that is going off shortly (and who will give you perfectly accurate info after a few seconds of torture instead of bullshit) is only on television. People have to stop thinking of the war on terror as something that is as simple as CSI and 24 where all things can be fixed in a day, the bomb can be stopped with 1.4 seconds left, and everyone can have a coffee afterward.

However, if there was ever a real life situation where you needed the info instantly, my advice is to whoever is at the spot, DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO! Don't expect your government to tell you it is OK to maim, torture, or kill to get the info you need, because the second we tell interragators they can do that, some of them will do it to anyone who is uncooperative, even if they were only uncooperative because they didn't have any info to give. Nope, if you think you can save hundreds of lives by torturing someone, go ahead, you do it, and pay the consequences if you're wrong, or extract usless info that sends the investigation off in completely the wrong direction. If you're right, there isn't a jury in the world going to give a crap that you cut off Mr. Atta's fingers to get the code that allowed you to defuse the nuclear bomb that was going to go off in 5 minutes. You're a hero, they'll toss out any threat of conviction based on "extenuating circumstances". But keep torture technically illegal so that if someone does it, they aren't doing thinking that, right or wrong, cutting of the fingers of "Joe Atta" won't have any consequences for them because totrure is perfectly legal and justifiable because Mr Torturer thought his victim, err, suspect, *might* have had some useful info.

[)--S@B0T-->]

I agree with what pezking said, but I have some more to add.

I think people should actually be punished for crimes, not thrown in jail. You raped someone? Good for you, now you're going your dick chopped off and then raped in the ass repeatedly with a cucumber. I can bet you they wouldn't rape anyone again. You got caught stealing? Well you suck at being a thief, so lets start by cutting off a finger. What's that you say? Got caught stealing again? Not only do you suck horribly at being a theif, but you look like even more of a jackass after you get two more fingers chopped off. They should probably get get the shit whipped out of them with a cane too. You murdered someone and it wasn't in self defense? That is fine, but the punishment will be so bad that you will wish you were already dead while you're dieing.

Anyways, that's my system. There's a few odds and ends that should be worked out, like the age at which this stuff happens. I would think 14-15 would be a good number, since someone that age should know better than to do anything like that.

Don't hold back on our account. Tell us how you really feel!

[pezking]

Actually, I don't watch 24 or CSI. I'm referring more to the prisoners that the coalition forces have interigated in Middle East or in our own prisons. We have gained intelligence of future attacks/bombings and have successfully stopped them. We have captured more people as well, many of them could have been the next Bin Laden. We captured Saddam and killed his sons through intelligence gained from friendly and interigation methods.

I'm not trying to say that people should have their limbs cut off... all I'm saying is that if interviewing a prisoner and playing loud music in his cell so he can't sleep can get information from him or her that leads to my countrymen not being killed, I'm all for it.

[Bargod]

I'll try to find the issue of New Yorker that did recently did an article about 24 and how the CIA and Army want them to stop using torture on the show. They actually blame 24 for a lot of the abuse and torture that has gone on, because so many soldiers are fans of the show. If Jack does it on tv to save the country, then it must be ok. Personally, if the professionals say it doesn't work, then I'm against it. I say let the pros use the best method that they can. If they say torture is effective, then why the hell would we condone it?

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

Actually, I don't watch 24 or CSI. I'm referring more to the prisoners that the coalition forces have interigated in Middle East or in our own prisons. We have gained intelligence of future attacks/bombings and have successfully stopped them. We have captured more people as well, many of them could have been the next Bin Laden. We captured Saddam and killed his sons through intelligence gained from friendly and interigation methods.

Successfully stopped them eh? And you know this because evidence was used against them at trial and facts were proven? No, you are basing this on the government, i.e. George Bush and "unamed sources" saying this is so, just like they said Bin Laden and Saddam worked together, and you couldn't walk through Iraq without tripping over a WMD!

The Bush administration had played so much politics with the War on Terror you can't trust one thing they say about anything, especially the arguments that their "techniques" have led to all sorts of successes that, of course, they can't ever tell us about, "national security and all", but hell just trust them because politicians and their benefactors NEVER lie, right?

Oh, and Saddam's sons were turned in by their cousin for a $25 million reward, not torture or interragations. How they found Saddam, I'm not sure, but the account was they searched a farm, were about to leave, saw a guy on the compound that was there, and when they went up to him he immediately panicked and pointed to where Saddam was. What info you are sourcing to point out that Saddam was found "through intelligence gained from friendly and interigation methods." I have no idea.

By the way, here's the story Bargod refers too. Never read it before, but a quick Google search turned it up.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/arti...19fa_fact_mayer

This post has been edited by M@ster of Dis@ster: 03/07/07 6:03pm

[Pancakes]

My wife thinks torture is fine...

wait, did I say that out loud?

Don't worry Flat, i saw your irrelevant, but still comical remark. Well played good sir.