What REALLY happened on 9/11, the truth of 9/11... carry an open mind. Options

[futureman]

im just saying, im not certain you are using your obviously very intelligent mind to ponder the right things in life. the energy you spend thinking about a conspiracy theory that, in actuality, probably holds no water, would be better spent in AP courses in school so that when you get to college to study to become a scientist who eventually figures out what cures all viruses, your time wont be squandered on garbage.

[Silver]

wow... see i thought you did ur home work. the steel failed becauce of the impact of the plane. along with the heat generated in the fire(s) as a result. the fire proofing (foam) that was used on the truss and structural beams was inadaquate. the steel was second rate so were the rivits. jet fuel burns at 1900c.... anyways, the heat from the fire is increased because of the reflective properitys of steel and cement. you have to remember many stories were taken out of the building. decreaseing the intregerity of the building. the plane went clean through the building. landing gear was found on the other side of the building. anyways click here
im really sick so i care less if my spelling is off, forgive that

[Too Exclusive]

well what about building 7? NO PLANE HIT THAT. agian... no plane hit building 7. jet fuel burns at a maximum of 1000 degrees fahrenheit, not 1900c... that would be enough to melt steel... and if u do some research on hydrocarbons, given the amount of oxygen in our atmostphere, a fire can not reach higher than 1800 degrees fahrenheit. im in school and the bell just rang for next period, so ill continue this when i get home.

[futureman]

it isnt a matter of just a fire. there was an airplane that cut through the very steel that held the towers together. did you read the link provided by solid or are you too eager to believe what a web site of unkowns has molded your mind into believeing?

[futureman]

too,
you are being taken captive by a group with an agenda that has blossmed into a monster. beware of those who tell you what to think, as you say our government has done.

think about this, which is easier? to make a country, a world, believe something that is not, or to make a small eager, anonymous group of interneters follow?

[Silver]

jet fuel burns at a maximum of 1000 degrees fahrenheit, not 1900c... that would be enough to melt steel...

dont know for sure i looked at 5 sites and all had diffrent temps. 1900c is the more common.

and if u do some research on hydrocarbons, given the amount of oxygen in our atmostphere, a fire can not reach higher than 1800 degrees fahrenheit.

wrong you are just going by the fuel its self. i have seen concrete fucking boil by an arsonist using hosehold chemicals. dont tell me it cannot reach more then 1800f. planes dont carry dangerous goods, and im going to look int the properites of what exactly the plane is made of. does it contain manesium or borium? any class 5 metals. i know it cannot carry that on the cargo hold so that i will look into. (ps...certian metals dont need oxyen to catch fire, they burn under water )

now i called my x-cheif something i would not normally have done. but you seem hell bent on contaminiating the minds of some poor sap. so here is what i concluded. look at this site, it is a very reputable site written and contributed to by the NFPA (seting standards in fire safty for consumers and frie protection) and Various fire cheifs and departments from around the country. they have no outside pressure to muddle the findings.

firecheif.com

bring it.

[Silver]

the reason i say flight 800 was taken down by the navy war ships off long island is the day it happened 2 men were (older men) 1 ww2 vet and a vietnam vet saw a missile shoot up and take down the plane. now im not big on conspirciy theories but the ntsb said the fuel tanks ruptured taking the cockpit off which made the plane climb 3000 feet before plumeting into the ground. common sense tells you the loss of the aerodymanics and the force of the air going into the cabin would have slowed the plane and it would have fell like a brick. the navy was doing cruse missile testing in that area (strange cuz so far as i know they dont test missiles off NYC). another theory is that osama and friends were planning to take the plane down by flying a cessena loaded with exlosives(? tiny plane) into the jet. they made a statemet of sorts the day before. the navy tried to take the plane civilan craft down by firing a missile and the missile clipped the plane taking it out. that also is by popular belief according to radar of that time frame. do i think the gov may have fucked up? maybe but maybe the terrorists got their way and brought it down. no one knows and i dont think the gov. knows either. i have seen home video (cannot find it now) of a tomahawk missile flyingside by side no more then a few feet from a pass. airline. that makes me wonder, but i dont believe it was deliberate.

This post has been edited by D. Silver: 02/16/05 11:55am

[futureman]

my guess is that "the movement" hasnt actually addressed anything that may be hinder their argument. that site you provided seems to pretty much explain the collapse as i would have thought it to happen.

thanks.

too, instead of believing an internet "movement", investigate the movement themselves. i would bet there are suprisingly more holes and agendas than you have first seemed to realize.

[Too Exclusive]

what u mean holes? the movement is not 1 group of ppl somewhere in one place. it's a whole bunch of different types of ppl scattered throughout the nation... probably millions of ppl are part of the movement. many have their own radio shows (Alex Jones and Jack Blood for example)... millions of ppl listen to alex jones... he reads government documents and shit that state lots about what's goin on that ppl dont know about. you should seriously take a look around infowars.com and prisonplanet.com. look at rense.com too. these arent ppl that are trying to "brainwash" me. i know shit loads about politics, and i have 140 IQ. anything im told i will look up and research thoroughly before believing. right now i have 2 different versions of an event. ive been presented evidence from both... but there's more evidence and logic and historical support to support govt involvement, and if u say uv been listening to the news, you'll know that prior knowledge of 9/11 by now is 100% positive.

[eastbayguy]

whoa, didn't expect to see a topic like this posted here, but I have seen the "In Plane Site" movie and it will blow your mind. A friend gave it to me and I don't know how america let this sh*t slide! I can't believe that both planes that hit the wtc had missiles or something attached, but that obvious explosion before the plane hits the building CAN NOT be explained. It's not a reflection, it's clearly a red/yellow explosion before impact! hey if ANYONE wants a copy of this movie please give me your address and i'll more than happily ship you one! Don't just hate on people for gettin the word out, IF YOU had researched and seen this stuff for yourself, you would realize there are many questions that NEED answering. Your government has lied to you and I seriously suggest you take 10 minutes out of your life researching it. I've spent more than 3 years now on this stuff, THERE IS NO WAY we didn't at least see the attack coming. in my opinion, but please check for yourself!

[eastbayguy]

one more quick thing, the INTERNET is the only place left of free speech. There is a lot of garbage out there but just as much good stuff. Do you see the war in Iran/Syria/N.Korea building up? Go ahead and watch your foxnews and live in CONSTANT fear, ever seen how a dog acts when it gets beaten enough times? Do your own research, and DON'T just go to foxnews.com or cnn.com!!

[DesertDemon]

Thats truly ridiculous, and yes you are a nut. Shame on you. You bring disgrace upon yourself and your family for dishonoring the victims and heros of 9-11 with your paranoid rhetoric. I sincerely hope that you are not so misguided that you can't respect the fact that tens of thousands of men have died to protect your right to be a moron.

[eastbayguy]

OK PEOPLE LISTEN UP!! Here is your 10 minutes of research right in front of your face. Read it, DO NOT skim it as I also did, I mean who really wants to read ALL this stuff. But I promise you, this is your red pill!

Have you ever second-guessed the plot of the September 11th day attacks on the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon? The media tells us it was an act of terrorism, that a plane hit the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon. George Bush assured us it was Al Qaida terrorists acting on orders from Osama Bin Laden when he stated, “Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September 11th, malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves, away from the guilty.” Is our faithful American President, who is sworn to protect us, telling us the truth or is he blatantly lying to us to keep us vulnerable to anti-constitutional Bills and Laws that take away our freedoms and liberties?
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America’s top military leaders drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in US cities to trick the public into supporting a war against Cuba in the early 1960s. Approved in writing by the Pentagon Joint Chiefs, Operation Northwoods even proposed blowing up a US ship and hijacking planes as a false pretext for war. [ABC, 5/1/01]
1996-2001: Federal authorities were aware for years before 9/11 that suspected terrorists with ties to Osama bin Laden were receiving flight training at schools in the US and abroad. One convicted terrorist confessed that his planned role in a terror attack was to crash a plane into CIA headquarters. [Washington Post, 9/23/01]
Aug 1998: CIA intelligence reports that Arab terrorists are planning to fly a bomb-laden aircraft into the WTC (World Trade Center). [New York Times, 9/19/02, Senate Intelligence Committee (Witness Hill), 9/18/02]
1998-2000: On three occasions, spies in Afghanistan report bin Laden's location. Each time, the president approves an attack. Each time, the CIA Director says the attack can’t go forward. [New York Times, 12/30/01] CIA officer in charge of Al Qaeda: White House repeatedly refused to eliminate bin Laden [Los Angeles Times, 12/4/04]
2000–2001: The military conducts exercises simulating hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets causing mass casualties. One target is the WTC. Another is the Pentagon. Yet after 9/11, over and over the White House and security officials say they’re shocked that terrorists hijacked airliners and crashed them into landmark buildings. [USA Today, 4/19/04] [Military District of Washington, 11/3/00] [New York Times, 10/3/01
2000-2001: 15 of the 19 hijackers fail to fill in visa documents properly in Saudi Arabia. Only six are interviewed. All 15 should have been denied entry to the US. [Washington Post, 10/22/02, ABC, 10/23/02] Two top senators say that if State Department personnel had merely followed the law, 9/11 would not have happened. [AP, 12/18/02
Jan 2001: After the Nov 2000 elections, US intelligence agencies are told to “back off” investigating the bin Ladens and Saudi royals. There have always been constraints on investigating Saudi Arabians. [BBC, 11/6/01]
Sept 10, 2001: “Newsweek has learned a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns." [Newsweek, 9/24/01, fifth to the last paragraph]
Sept 11, 2001: Data recovery experts extract data from 32 damaged WTC computer drives. The data reveals a surge in financial transactions shortly before the attacks. Illegal transfers of over $100 million may have been made through some WTC computer systems immediately before and during the 9/11 disaster. [Reuters, 12/18/01]
Sept 11, 2001: Described as a bizarre coincidence, a US intelligence agency was all set for an exercise on Sept 11th at 9 AM in which an aircraft would crash into one of its buildings near Washington, DC. [AP, 8/22/02]
Sept 11, 2001: Warren Buffett, the second richest man on Earth [BBC, 6/22/01], schedules an event at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska. A group of business leaders attend, including at least one who would otherwise have died in the WTC. [SF Business Times, 2/1/02] President Bush flies to this same base that day. [CNN, 9/12/01]
Sept 11, 2001: Hours after the attacks, a "shadow government" is formed. Key congressional leaders say they didn’t know this government-in-waiting had been established. [CBS, 3/2/02, Washington Post, 3/2/02]
Sept 13-19, 2001: Bin Laden's family is taken under FBI supervision to a secret assembly point. They leave the country by private plane when airports reopen days after the attacks. [NY Times, 9/30/01][Boston Globe, 9/20/01]
(http://www.wanttoknow.info/911timeline2pg)
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We all saw the news or read it in the newspaper of what happened on the frightful day of September 11th. CNN tells us sources from the F.B.I. say all four planes had been hijacked. President Bush tells CNN, “ Make no mistake; the U.S will hunt down and punish those responsible for theses cowardly acts.” FOX 11 news’ headlines were, “F.B.I. investigates: Planes hijacked before crashing into WTC’s,” “Plane crashes into Pentagon.” All news media coverage’s say it was terrorists responsible for the attacks.

First we go to the Pentagon, how it was attacked and why. I am sure every single picture you have seen of the Pentagon on the news or in books has captions by it saying something like “ plane crashes into Pentagon,” with the explanation of, “It was a result of terrorism.” The key words in this explanation are “plane” and “terrorism.” Did any of those pictures that you might have seen by any chance have a plane inside the Pentagon? The answer is no, none of them did not have any evidence of a plane crash. If yes, then why is the roof still intact, and where is the destroyed plane debris? Americans Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon at 9:43 EST. The width of the impact was 65 feet across and 73 feet high. According to the F.A.A. a Boeing 757 is 124 feet across from wingtip to wingtip, and 44 feet from tail wing to bottom. Now how does a 124-foot wide object make a perfect impact hole of 65 feet across? We were told the plane crash made an explosion so hot it fatigued the steel. That exact plane embarked on a Trans Continental flight, which means a significant amount of fuel would have been left over, 8,600 gallons to be exact. The F.A.A. said a fuel size of 8,600 gallons had a B.T.U. rate of 86,000,000. They said with the power of the explosion and the velocity of the plane it should have pancaked the entire Pentagon. Title 40 of the Code Regulation Laws clearly state:
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ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
40 CFR Part 258
[RCRA-2002-0034; FRL-7573-6]
RIN 2050-AE91

Municipal Solid Waste Landfill Location Restrictions for Airport Safety

AGENCY: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
ACTION: Technical amendment.



SUMMARY: EPA is amending the location restriction section in the
Criteria for Municipal Solid Waste Landfills (MSWLFs) under the
Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA), in order to add a note
providing information about landfill siting requirements enacted in the
Wendell H. Ford Aviation Investment and Reform Act for the 21st Century
(Ford Act)
(http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-WASTE/2003/October/Day-15/f25934.htm)
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A significant amount of fuel would have been spilled to cause this code to go in effect, but it did not. Now to the surveillance of the Pentagon. Only one camera was on security at that time, which seems kind of odd due to the fact that the Pentagon is suppose to be the safest building in America. A local gas station caught extraordinary footage of a missile shaped object entering the building, which was confiscated minutes after the incident. Doesn’t the hole in the Pentagon look a lot like a missile-damaged building? Now to the second key word, “terrorism.” Would terrorists really want to destroy special government documents in that particular site at that particular time? Coincidently that part of the Pentagon was under renovation. The documents in the Pentagon were to be released to the public. The documents contained exclusive material of how the C.I.A. abused their powers. If these documents were to be released it would have shattered our trust, or what we had left of it toward our C.I.A. Now you can see that this was not the act of a few terrorists, but the acts of a deceitful government.

Now to the World Trade Centers. Our media explains it as “an act of terror”, that all the planes were “hijacked”. At 8:45 EST American Airlines Flight 11 hit the north tower, at 9:03 EST American Airlines flight 175 slammed into the south tower. The north tower was the first to collapse. Isn’t the collapsing of the Towers very much similar to that of a controlled demolition? Planned demolitions take months to set up, which beams to place charges on, and the order of the detonation and such. The Fire Department of New York and the New York Police Department seem to think so. Louis Cacchioli, a 51-year-old firefighter assigned to Engine 47 on 9/11/01, was asked to comment on September 11th in People Magazine on September 24th 2001, pg. 24. He went on to say; “ We were the first ones in the second tower after the plane had hit… on our last trip up a bomb went off. We think there were bombs set in the buildings”. Other firefighters said, “ We made it at least 2 blocks away, and floor by floor there were detonators, boom, boom, boom, in succession”. The New York Police Department commented also in saying, “ To me it sounded like a bomb”. Now were in a persons right mind does this sound like coincidence. Each plane that crashed into the towers was clearly visible. On impact, both of the planes blinked a flash of light right before hitting the World Trade Centers. Under the fuselage of the planes there was weird obstructed shape that looked like a pod of some kind. Could the flash be a reflection?
The answer is no, it cannot. Every single angle of the plane that was taken shows this flash of light, so you can single out the reflection theory. The purpose of that object was to ignite the 10,000 gallons of fuel as it hit the tower. How can one plane take down millions of tons of concrete and steel? It cannot. Both towers were taken down by planned demolition charges.

At 10:00 EST, American Airlines Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. We were told that pilots who took it over crashed the plane, but flight 93 was shot down. The pilots had overtaken the remote control autopilot controlled by the government. Eyewitnesses say there was a military plane following flight 93. Donald Rumsfeld spoke out against this and said, “ once we learned our plane was taken over I made the order to have it be shot down, it was a Presidential decision.” He did not cover it up, but said it was a “ Presidential decision”, which that was the right thing to do.

We finally come to the big question “ Why?” Through all of this research and explanation you may or may not believe this irrefutable evidence of what really happened on September 11th. To you understanding before you were told that terrorists were to blame and that we were at war with Osama Bin Laden and Al Qeida. To your understanding now your government is to blame and we are at war with ourselves. You ask yourself, “ Why would our government do this to it’s own people?” the truth is, they don’t care of you, they care of your freedom, but not in a good way. I am sure you have heard of the Patriot Act that was passed during Bill Clinton’s notorious reign. The act was, in the event of a national tragedy or state of emergency, for all American citizens to give up their rights by handing the government the key to their lives legally. It would seem that they needed this act to be passed in order to take away our rights with probable cause. If not, it would have made the government look foolish in taking away our rights without reason. The best way for an artificial government to flex their powers is to keep the American people stupid. That’s how it worked in the days of King George and that’s how it works today. We are slowly being striped of our rights, the rights that were signed by our Founding Fore Fathers on July 4th 1776. To let this tyranny continue is imprudent. We have failed as American Citizens.


-That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
~ Declaration of the thirteen United States of America,

[Silver]

hey man, i've been nice but the 2 of you are complete fucking idiots. the pentagon is highly reinforced. i mean its the super structure of milt. intel. it may very well hold properities that are left out to avg. people, for security sake. but to be blunt, where do yous get this shit? and BELIEVE IT! its people like yous that make headlines for valentines day suicide plots. im not a tough guy but your feeding kids this shit and if i ever met you id knock ur lights out. promise that shit . every attempt to confuse the population is to side with terrorist thoughts, which you are, dirtys the flag. get on board son, get with the winning team. everyone knew and has knowen that we will be waging war with more of the middle east. syria and N korea and probally SA. do i give a shit. no. the reason why, the gov. would not have done a act to kill countless people, is the whole gov would have to be evil. someone would come forward, some one would do whats right and the gov. would have fallen and every gov. offical would be swinging from the street lights.
get a grip
get a clue
you want to bring down the intregerity of the american war machine, which has captured terrorist cells in MY NEIGHBORHOOD. the lackawana 6, if you ever told that shit to someone in my family expecially my kids you would need to keep that towel on ur head a little more to stop the bleeding.
and no im not angry, but fuck ur life up. dont try and brain wash us. we have young players here and hope that the crazy shit you spew dont afflict them. we got soilders being killed and injured for your right to say that. people are getting beheaded and you spew its our fault. to me you a fucking terrorist, and u sure are no better. i have a very open mind and i have seen read most of what you posted but sorry to say my 8 yo is smarter then that.
guess ill stop my rant...but you know what we all have properganda filling our heads, but ill stick to the shit thats gonna help my country, my men, and my family.
GOD BLESS THE USA AND THE SOILDERS THAT PROTECT HER!
now go fuck ur self...

This post has been edited by D. Silver: 02/16/05 4:50pm

[Too Exclusive]

here's a question for you... did u see any footage of the plane hit the pentagon? no you didnt (other than 5 tiny grainy ass frames that dont show a plane at all).

here's another question... y do u trust the government so damn much? im sorry, but knowing that they thought shit like northwoods up in the past, that makes me lose trust in them. you did look at northwoods right?