So why did we attack Afghanistan and Iraq? Options

[Too Exclusive]

Hrrrrmmm.... good question, considering Osama Bin Laden is Saudi, along with all but 1 or 2 of the 19 hijackers? So let me get this straight, Osama Bin Laden is from Saudi Arabia. 18 of the 19 hijackers are from Saudi Arabia, and we invade Afghanistan and Iraq? Hrrm. Interesting.

[holden_caulfield]

Hrrrrmmm.... good question, considering Osama Bin Laden is Saudi, along with all but 1 or 2 of the 19 hijackers? So let me get this straight, Osama Bin Laden is from Saudi Arabia. 18 of the 19 hijackers are from Saudi Arabia, and we invade Afghanistan and Iraq? Hrrm. Interesting.

They [the terrorists who boarded the plane] were based Afghanistan, where they trained, and where they were funded by the Taliban. The Iraq war, however, if you can believe this administration, is about preemption, WMDs, and, uh, the inevitable march of freedom--American style.

[Too Exclusive]

well we're told they were funded by the taliban... but only by our liberal media... here's something ull never see in the liberal media... taliban offered to hand osama bin laden over to bill clinton along with a list of terrorist names and bill clinton didn't want them. taliban was funding terrorists my ass.

[Too Exclusive]

that is our ALLEDGEDLY liberal media, yet they don't even talk about the Downing Street Memo which was written by some high ranking british guy proving that the bush administration cooked the evidence of WMDs... nope. our media doesn't cover that either. Liberal my ass.

[Bargod]

well we're told they were funded by the taliban... but only by our liberal media... here's something ull never see in the liberal media... taliban offered to hand osama bin laden over to bill clinton along with a list of terrorist names and bill clinton didn't want them. taliban was funding terrorists my ass.

I'll probably regret egging on your bs, but why are your sources so trustworthy? I'm sure they aren't people with their own agenda or anything...yeah right. A friend of the family was killed a couple of months ago in Afghanistan. He was a contracter there. His family was very concerned about his safety and wanted him to come home. He, however, had never felt better about life. He said the people there were so happy to be rid of the Taliban. They help the American troops however they can and are incredibly happy at all the work that he and other Americans were doing to bring thier country into modern times. Things like building schools and roads and hospitals. Things that weren't being done by the Taliban. They enjoy listening to music and being able to walk in the street holding the hand of someone of the opposite sex. Who cares why we went. We made the world a better place.
As for Iraq, I always thought the WMD's was a lame reason. Also, a reason we didn't need. Iraq regularly violated the ceasefire agreement that came at the end of the Gulf War. They were regulary firing missles at US and English jets patrolling the no fly zones. To me, that was all the reason we needed. Once again, the world is a better place.
You see a media that paints a pretty picture of this war. I see a media that ignores all the positive things that are happening in Iraq to give you a daily death count. But they ignore the reason these soldiers are dying. They ignore the fact that Iraqi's have voted a government into office. A government that is doing it's best to run the country itself. Huh, yeah, how horrible we are giving them freedom.

[Druid]

You are a poor twisted fool who refuses to look at the big picture with anything less than skewed skepticisms.
You've made dozens of blanket accusations ranging from a to z but have failed to back up any of them.

My god your logic is like a childs
Lets see, Osama was from Saudi Arabia, so freaking what?
You do realize he's exiled from there don't you?
The Saudi's have more to fear from Osama than we do. Osama called for the removal of the Saudi regime and this is why he was exiled.

So once again what is your point?
By your logic you would also question why the U.S. attacked germany in WW2,
after all, Hitler was Austrian

[holden_caulfield]

Also, a reason we didn't need.  Iraq regularly violated the ceasefire agreement that came at the end of the Gulf War.  They were regulary firing missles at US and English jets patrolling the no fly zones.

Funny how the commander-in-chief didn't make this the mantelpiece of his rhetoric.

Iraqis shoot at our jets for years. Then we attack them for an alleged connection to Osama. Then it's WMDs, then it's freedom and stability in the region. Then many years from now, if this insurgency is still vigorous, what will it be for?

No doubt the servicemen in Afghanistan and Iraq have the best intentions, and no doubt the majority of them want to be there, and even think they should be there, but again, that's beside the point. The argument that because we are spreading peace/democracy/freedom/happiness/other-glittering-generality then the war is now justified--that argument is specious at best, deceptive at worst. It might be cold hearted to turn our backs on the Iraqis in hindsight, but we had no business, as a sovereign nation, to go into Iraq using the justifications we did. Now that we're embroiled in this mess, however, it is now in the best interest of this country that we make it work the way we intended it to, however hard that may be.

And TooExclusive, you better not be draping yourself in the liberal cause. We have standards here you know.

[Too Exclusive]

And TooExclusive, you better not be draping yourself in the liberal cause. We have standards here you know.

?

[Blakjak]

Hitler was Austrian

He was also an artist believe it or not.

[Too Exclusive]

He was also an artist believe it or not. 

i did know that. he learned to hate jews cause he couldnt get into an art school and he thought it was the jews fault or somethin along those lines...

[Bargod]

Hitler was Austrian

He was also an artist believe it or not.

And a vegetarian.

[Blakjak]

Hitler hated the Jews because of the political rhetoric of Viennese politicians, not because of art. Later, he also drew much of his ideology from the composer Robert Wagner and the German thinkers of the late 19th century like Fichte, Hegel, and Treitschke.

[holden_caulfield]

Wagner was a tool and an anti-semite. Hitler's step-dad was Jewish, I think, and also abusive to his mother, whom he was very close to. If I remember correctly, when she died, the doctor who attended to her was also Jewish, and it was rumored that Hitler had blamed him for her death.

[Blakjak]

Not his step-dad I think, an older relative I think. IRC he had the whole village where that part of the family was from demolished and totally ruined to destroy any evidence of Jewish origins.

[Too Exclusive]

nah it was his mother that was jewish. hitler was HALF jewish... i def remember hearing his mother was jewish...