Barbarossa tactics and strategy Options

[Hellfighter]

A while back I read a G.I's WW2 war story and how at one time while lying down a stick grenade landed inches from his face and went off. He got off very concussed only! Apparently he was in the one fluke position to get off that lightly. Which brings me to my point about surviving inside a bunker when satchels are tossed down bunker vents. There's one spot in the very opposite corner you can survive if you lay down .... but not all the time. Maybe it has to do on which way the satched is tossed down-perhaps bouncing a bit down the shaft to make all the difference in its blast area afterwards. Satchels landing on stairs can be survived by hiding in that opposite corner. The center shelves apparently absorb some nade blast if you can move accordingly in a way to use this to help you out down there.

When clearing a bunker and no nades/satchels on hand assume there is Bob's deadman switch down there. Go in and look for the dropped satchel if bomb protector dies. When you see it, run out of the base fast until it explodes then go down to defuse-lol providing a second unnoticed 'deadman has just dropped his/hers. Only teammates barrelling downstairs and running into you will ensure you die since you only have enough time to run out of the bunker unimpeded before it detonates killing everyone inside the bunker/stairs/roof[normally- I think there's a blind spot on the first flight of stairs down for people going in that won't die].

My biggest fun in the game [besides going on a run-over spree or squishing a trapped enemy over with a tank very sadistically slowly ] is having a satchel in hand and playing catch-me-if-you-can with defusers, sometimes 3 or 4 of them rush downstairs and are armed with pistols and rifles... if you are a good dodger you can last 4 or 5 hilarious seconds while they run around trying to kill you so you drop the freaking bomb in time for them to safely defuse.

Regarding that brilliant tactic of lying on stairs to defend entry down into a bunker there are a few ways to beat it, Particularly at R2 and G1. These have a slope adjacent to the bunkers rear jump entries. From here you can actually either jump on the edge of the wall and walk along it and drop directly into the bunker and avoid stair 'liers' or at R2 jump right into the bunker almost.

Running jeeps over the back wall at R2 is a great way to block entry downstairs into the bunker either to hold off enemy trying to enter to kill defusers or plant there. If you are on your way to defuse and have enough time toss satchel down vent or over stairs then nades 1] into bunker roof corner 2] at top of stairs 3] and into bunker in case some1 miraculously survives satchel blasts.

One truly irksome bad team habit is when both sides employ the rush tactic and race to blast and plant with no defence, YOU and ANYONE on your team not at that moment attacking a base SHOULD get hold of a jeep REGARDLESS where they are on the map wnenever they see the base icon flashing indicating a plant going on. A jeep will make it to the base threatened no matter where you are on the map if you leave early enough. This rush back should be used especially for G2, G3, R2, R3.

Be a team trooper and do defence! It makes all the difference. The team that loses fast will be entirely all numbskulls that ignore the flashing plant icon and react only when there's only 30 seconds left to defuse. Everyone has to share the blame in that situation.

Satchels seem to kill tanks best blowing up on their rear tracks.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/15/06 1:35pm

[Silver]

dropping the satchel down the air tube also works for clearing bases and standing in the stairwell right before the 1st landing wont kill you... I crouch and get close to the inner wall....

as well as tossing nades from a distance to drop in the basement works well 2...

Also a satchel in the round building near R2 before the building... a very over looked building as well no one checks it and no one uses it... very good base to hide in to let the Russians pass by....

also suicide bombing tanks works well.... nothing better then seeing a tank try and escape you while you chase them down while cooking the charge.... kinda a weird gratification when they get scared and try and out run you in a tank.... try and detonate ur self on the gas tank... works great! also a good way to get rid of spawnkillers....

more hints on spawnkilling....

arty spawn in german area while stealing tank
smoke spawn ^^
toss satchel ^^
nades^^^
jeep across and MG spawn
get deployable MG from german noob and set up shop... did it yesterday and got 6 kills b4 I was over ran
put HT in covered house and mess mess them up...
put damaged HT on bolth side of lean2 and MG & shell away...
steal all tanks and move them to corner of lot so when you get damage run tank FWD into spawn to kill advancing germans while you escape to get another tank...

one hit and one close hit on gorund bring the camo tanks very close to blowing up... soon as a person gets in it shoot it and they explode... (damage b4 they get in ti)
shoot up jeeps so when germans get in they blow faster
Bash idle players
steal german guns so if you shoot on foot at a german jeep jockey they may stop to pick you up... hehehehehe
at all cost hunt H8 and samoan... EZ Kill

This post has been edited by Silver: 01/15/06 1:33pm

[Imphotemp]

it would be nice to know sweet spots to german AT_guns, that one between german bunker 2 and 3 and the one besides german 3..... if any1 knowns these spots it would be nice if you sheer your info with us.....

[Silver]

soon as i fix my vent i could ask someone to spot for me or w/e

[ScrapyardBob]

The pak gun by german #3 doesn't have any sweet spots, it would need another 2-3 degrees of positive elevation in order to hit anything. (Which is a pity, because it would become a very powerful weapon and help to even up the balance of power.)

The middle pak gun is pretty easy to use, aim all the way up and walk left/right as you aim at the Russian #3 icon. But I'll try to get a target chart this week.

When dealing with long-range fire, you'll notice that the game does not have a continous movement. Instead, if you watch carefully (especially on higher resolutions) you can see that the crosshairs on tanks/guns moves at small increments (notches). A lot of the targeting spots are only 1-3 notches tall and 2-5 notches wide. OTOH, this stepped movement of the targeting crosshair allows extremely accurate and repeatably accurate long-range cover fire.

I've taken another look at the Russian #3 KV1 shelling chart. The original one had a few missing targets and some misalignments. The KV1 by Russian #3 is especially useful at protecting a bomb team at German #1, the shell lands inside the walls right by the entrance door. Not everything on this is labeled, but if you know the map you'll know where these extra spots are.



Note: All of my targeting charts are based on not zooming in with the gun. This is because I get tired of holding down the right-mouse (even though I have a toggle key setup for it). So unless noted on the chart, you'll only hit these spots without being zoomed in.

Note #2: If you're doing a lot of long-range fire support, I'd recommend mapping a keyboard key as an alternate attack button. That way you can line up the shot with the mouse but use the keyboard for continous bombardment (without twitching and spoiling your shot).

The germans put up a very strong fight on Sunday night. Normally, when the Russians open up the round with indirect fire support on German #2 and German #3 (opening the bases within 3-4 minutes, planting immediately) the round ends up extremely short (10-15 minute wins). However last night, the german team was defending G2 and G3 so that even if we opened them up within the first few minutes, it took us a lot longer to successfully plant. A lot of the rounds either ended up as a 2-2 tie or it took one team or the other 25-30 minutes to succeed.


This post has been edited by ScrapyardBob: 01/16/06 9:40am

[ScrapyardBob]

The goals of defense

See also: FM 17-15 chapter 4

Defense is the art of holding a section of territory and denying the enemy to do as they please. The primary goals are:

1) Stop the assault. This is not always possible, especially if you are outnumbered. In general, the farther away you can start engaging the enemy with your tank, the greater chance that you'll win the engagement. Be sure to place your tank in a hull-down position (Wikipedia entry - a.k.a. defilade position).

2) Slow / weaken the assault force. If you can't stop them, slow them down or weaken them by sacrificing yourself. Be crafty and make them work to kill you. You'll either take a few of them out before they put you down or you'll manage to slow them down and throw off their timing. Possibly allowing reinforcements from your own team time to reposition to defend against this new assault.

A key part of this tactic is communication, let your teammates know that you have infantry/tanks that are about to overrun your position. Use the voice-keys if you're already exposed and the enemy knows your location (v21 for infantry, v55 for jeeps, v56 for tanks, v57 for heavy tanks). If you're still hidden, use the 'Y' key and tell your team how many and the approximate location before engaging. For example: "2 tanks at N bridge", "3 tanks S road", "2 jeeps L flank", "tank at middle", "tanks on R2 hill", "2 in our 3 base".

3) Cry for help. If you're about to die, let your teammates know. Use the voice keys (v42 for need reinforcements). Sometimes it's better to not go out in a blaze of glory. Instead, hole up for a few seconds and type out a frenzied communique to your teammates describing the situation.

Remember, if you die silently, nobody is going to know that there's anything going on in your part of the map. Instead, the rest of the team will be blissfully ignorant and wondering where all of the enemy forces have gone.


This post has been edited by ScrapyardBob: 01/16/06 10:36am

[Imphotemp]

jeezz....BOB you must have used many many hours to find these spot to this map..... but you are my hero
, cos now i can just spam with AT_guns and get easy kills instead of furious and furstration fights agains PPSH with my KAR and LUGER..... i just could allmost or mayby not...... and this is for all you PPSH dudes , nothing personal.......

-|RPOF|-30.-30.


This post has been edited by Imphotemp: 01/16/06 11:05am

[Hellfighter]

3) Cry for help. If you're about to die, let your teammates know. Use the voice keys (v42 for need reinforcements). Sometimes it's better to not go out in a blaze of glory. Instead, hole up for a few seconds and type out a frenzied communique to your teammates describing the situation.

Remember, if you die silently, nobody is going to know that there's anything going on in your part of the map. Instead, the rest of the team will be blissfully ignorant and wondering where all of the enemy forces have gone.

I harp on this too much but nothing worse than seeing most team mates willfully ignorant that reacting swiftly to seeing flashing base planting icons are one of the most crucial aspects of Bases mission.

If team mates aren't planting a bomb or defusing one elsewhere, or aiding teammates who are, then they must RUSH to the closest jeep and head over to the plant to kill planter or aid a friendly planter.
Too often I see when both sides doing the total attack rush, team mates not directly active in destroying a base won't heed a warning that an important team base is potentially about to be planted at [even before the plant occurs]. And lo and behold the plant starts with idle team mates uselessly staying forward. In such instances it'd be nice if the game had one of those MSN chat 'Wink' poppers.
You can CAN CAN make it from one side's base to the other to potentially defuse a bomb if you head there in a jeep in the first seconds of the flashing base icon. Try it- be a team trooper> don't ignore those 'Cries for help' or alerts>especially the map vets; the noobs can be forgiven to a point for sitting idly in a tank or AT gun or driving by bases that need defusing.

[ScrapyardBob]

Takes about 1 hour to setup each targeting chart and requires at least 2 copies of CoD:UO running (one in non-dedicated server mode). So I setup 2 machines on my LAN, one to test out target points and the 2nd PC to watch where the rounds are landing. I then markup my screenshots in Paintshop Pro. It's a less frustrating method of finding target coordinates then trying to do it in the middle of a battle. During a real battle, I refer to a printed out copy of the graphic to remind me where the spots are (although I know most of them by heart).

Indirect fire-support is proving to be extremely popular and devastating. It's not perfect but works well against inexperienced players. It also provides a way to do counter-battery fire against the stationary pak/45mm positions. (For instance, suppressing the german middle pak or the pak near german #3.)

It also really ticks off the opposition. One of the big reasons I learned targeting on the Russian #3 45mm gun is because I got tired of dying from incoming rounds from the german's middle pak. So now I make it a point to plant a round onto that middle pak gun every time I walk past the Russian #3 45mm.

[Hellfighter]

jeezz....BOB you must have used many many hours to find these spot to this map..... but you are my hero
, cos now i can just spam with AT_guns and get easy kills instead of furious and furstration fights agains PPSH with my KAR and LUGER..... i just could allmost or mayby not...... and this is for all you PPSH dudes , nothing personal.......

-|RPOF|-30.-30.

Don't worry chum if I don't come up behind you to spray you sadistically just in your head with PPSH, I will get you dedicated arty experts in various equally cruel ways

[ScrapyardBob]

Russian defense. Talking specifics about defense on Barbarossa is somewhat an pointless exercise, partly because of the public nature of the server but mostly because no plan survives contact with the enemy. Things also change when you're talking 5v5 compared to 12v12 games.

1) Minimal defense / early game. One to two players should hang back in the area between Russian #3 and Russian #1. The primary goal is to keep control of the spawn area at #3, staying on the lookout for germans in jeeps. This may involve patrolling the area in a light tank or more static positioning (one at #3 and one along the road between #1 and #3 near the KV1 spawn). Germans will frequently attempt to drive jeeps into the area behind Russian #3 in order to steal tanks, use the 45mm to shell Russian #3, or to harrass any long-distance fire-support guns/tanks.

Losing control of the area around Russian #3 is very bad for the russian team. All but one of their tank spawns are within spitting distance of Russian #3. Think about how difficult it is for germans to attack the area around Russian #3 when it's being defended. Now imagine trying to do that as a russian, when you've spawed at Russian #2 without tanks or jeeps and you're trying to retake the area around #3.

2) The north road (a.k.a. the right flank). The area around Russian #1 is probably the second most important piece of real estate on the russian side of the map. If the germans are able to hold this territory they can rain fire and destruction down on the russian spawn egress and the area around Russian #3. They'll also be able to bring constant reinforcements up the north road to reinforce their assault.

Defending the north road is moderately easy. One method is a single infantry stationed at the north flank 45mm cannon. Unfortunately, that player is going to be vulnerable to sniper fire from the north bridge area, or a flanking attack that is outside where the 45mm gun can hit. Your average life expectancy at this position is going to be short.

Alternately, a single tank in hull-down or turret-down position in the north pass by Russian #1 can really slow down a german advance up the north road. Due to the open terrain, you can start firing when they are still on the far side of the bridge. With accurate shots you can often destroy at least 1 tank before they get across the bridge. Make sure you rock forward to fire and immediately retreat a few meters to go turret down (to duck any return fire). In addition, notice that you get an extra few degrees of depressed elevation as you move from forward to back. This can allow you to hit targets that are below your normal depressed elevation.

Either way, you have 15 seconds to get backup if you call for it while the germans are still down by the north bridge. A good gunner can rack up multiple kills before being overrun (and you'll have severely weakend the assault force).

3) The middle pass. An often overlooked ingress into the russian side of the map. Failure to protect this pass allows german infantry to slip into town, often unnoticed. German snipers also like to use this perch to snipe at russians as they exit the right side spawn (or anyone who is trying to use the 45mm gun). We've seen a bomb plant at German #3 that failed due to a single german sniper taking out the 45mm gunner.

Guarding this is somewhat difficult. You may wish to hide in the hayfield, or on the slopes of the riverbed, or in the town near that pass, or even setup shop near the 45mm gun itself. Placing a light tank up there can work moderately well but there are multiple approaches that sneaky german infantry can use to hit you from the flanks with anti-tank weaponry.

4) The R2 hill (around the Russian #2 base). This area is useful to hold because you can watch 3 out of the 4 egress points from the german side of the map (south river, the bridge by German #1, and the hill top pass to the north). Teammates performing recon duty here can provide a lot of warning about german assaults along the left flank.

Tanks will generally have limited luck attempting to hold the R2 hill. German tanks can shell you from all 3 approaches and it's not easy to find a concealing position that still allows you to watch all 3 approaches. However, you do have a lot of room to move around so you may be able to dodge most incoming fire. Infantry may be better suited for watching this sector.

Holding the R2 hill is still important even if both Russian #2 and Russian #3 are lost. At that point, your goal is to keep them from slipping in behind Russian #3 and stealing tanks or spawn killing.

[realdeal]

Excellent, as usual. And remember Russians... Only NOOBS plant the German 1 before 2 and 3!

[ScrapyardBob]

The germans are getting a lot smarter. First round went 3-2 russians, second round went 2-1 germans. Why did the russians lose the 2nd round so soundly? (At least, my recall of a hectic and chaotic battle...)

- German infantry got in behind russian 3 early in the round. A small amount of disruption required to root him out.

- Germans controlled the right flank by russian #1 for the last 10-12 minutes of the round. Once the right flank collapsed, the russians lost their #1 base pretty quick and things slid downhill from there. The germans stole at least 1-2 tanks from the right flank spawn and used them against the russians.

- Russians didn't crack German #3 open until mid-round instead of at the start. That meant the germans could leave their #3 almost defenseless (and not spend their time chasing bomb plants at their #3).

- Germans made off with the Russian heavy by the #3 base. Someone bailed out of it before it was destroyed on the north flank and an opportunistic german drove away with it (and hid it).

- I also suspect that the germans have learned to protect bases early in the round, rather then leaving it till later. Early-plant bomb teams have been repeatedly repulsed by german defenders.

[Hellfighter]

The germans are getting a lot smarter. First round went 3-2 russians, second round went 2-1 germans. Why did the russians lose the 2nd round so soundly?.......I also suspect that the germans have learned to protect bases early in the round, rather then leaving it till later. Early-plant bomb teams have been repeatedly repulsed by german defenders.

I'm not sure if it'll ever be a case of one team getting smarter than the other
I think it's only luck of the draw regarding if vets[or noobs who learn fast ] are on a team to either 1] as the Germs pile in jeeps to rush the Rusky 3 fast with dash and bravado or likewise 2] as the Bolsheviks fly off to the Germ.2...... or vets set up deployed and setup at Rusky 3 or Kraut 2 to ambush those jeepsters along the way. Again, unfortunately it'll be luck of the draw if a team has noobs who go against all pleas and rants and plant Germ 1 first or Rusky 1+2 first.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/17/06 9:40am

[ScrapyardBob]

True, luck-o-the-draw does apply.

It's a toss-up whether to shell from the Russian home area or drive tanks to take German #2 out up close and personal like.

A) Shelling from the starting points

If you can get both KV1s and the T34 to start shelling German #2 within the first minute, you can take the base down almost as fast as you can get a jeep there with a plant team. If only the T34 is shelling, you're looking at 5+ minutes before German #2 is open for plant. A single KV1 by itself can cut that time in half. Either way, you're pretty much guaranteed to crack open all 3 bases within the first 10 minutes of the round. Which gives the germans more things to worry about.

The tanks that shell from the starting positions have a chance to defend the area around Russian #3.

The downside is that the plant team is somewhat undefended at German #2. They'll either need to steal german tanks or be very crafty at defending against german defusers. A good long-distance fire-support gunner can provide cover fire, but the bomb team needs to communicate back whether aim needs to be adjusted. (And fire-support is not a 100% guarantee, it's easy enough for vets to dodge the shells.)

B) Up close and personal

Longer timeframe before the germans have to worry about suicide jeeps with bomb teams. That gives the germans time to mount at least 1-2 assaults against russian lines before they have to start guarding their bases.

But if you can get 3-4 tanks plus some infantry all pointed in the same direction, you can take down a german base very quick and be able to kill any german defusers. Plus, this option allows you to overrun any german defenders who might have stayed behind to guard German #2.

The downside is that you may run headlong into the german advance and any germans that you kill will know where you're heading.

...

Option A (sneaky) works well on the first round. Especially against teams that don't guard bases until they've been planted once or twice. Basically, you're betting that you can get a bomb team there, plant, and defend the plant before the enemy realizes their mistake. When it works, it works extremely well. The round typically lasts about 8 minutes and all 3 bases get planted in domino fashion while the enemy runs around in a crazed manner chasing the latest emergency.

Option B (mass assault) is extremely effective for the germans. Especially when they race up the north road, sweep in past Russian #1 and immediately assault Russian #3. Basically, you're relying on the majority of the enemy to be away from their home area and not watching the flanks.


This post has been edited by ScrapyardBob: 01/17/06 10:36am