Full Version: Mac or PC?
title pretty much explains this topic. give me your input why you like which one more, etc.
Apple consumer satisfaction highest in industry: http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/08/16/apple.no..1.on.csi/
Top 10 Reasons to get a Mac: http://www.apple.com/getamac/
Next question.
Top 10 Reasons to get a Mac: http://www.apple.com/getamac/
Next question.
For me its Mac all the way 
I've been using Macs for a good many years and wouldn't even think of buying a Windows PC.
If you're thinking of getting one you should consider buying a new Mac Pro as it can run both Mac OSX as well as Windows should the occasion ever arise
I've been using Macs for a good many years and wouldn't even think of buying a Windows PC.
If you're thinking of getting one you should consider buying a new Mac Pro as it can run both Mac OSX as well as Windows should the occasion ever arise
I'm sorta floored that this topic would come up, it's typically just a catalyst for a forum war. Por tem..
I've been using both from the beginning of their inception, as well as UNIX machines and I have a home-brew Linux machine that I tinker with as well. Going farther back, I was a big Amiga fan until it finally finally died. Actually, I first worked with an Interdata 8/16 and did my first real programming on a PDP-11. But I digress....
My choice in a home computer is the pc. I build all of my home computers from scratch, and in a pc, I can make it exactly how I want it with the knowledge that still some 90+% of all components, apps and utilities will work on it.
I built a home-brew Mac a few years back and found that my only real choice was to build a "franken-Mac" - meaning, from pieces from other Macs, there really wasn't an alternative to built the machine from scratch.
There's also some basic feeling I have that I can't get as deeply under the hood with a Mac as I can with a pc. I'm reminded of all the trouble I had trying to debug a problem with a Powerbook Pismo battery recharging problem I tried to solve a couple of years ago, I mean, I couldn't get into the code at all. It was like, I either had to find something that I could point-click-install and it runs and works, or else, I was hosed. In this case, I was hosed. I didn't/don't like that feeling.
On top of this is the expense. You've really got to buy whatever the basic Mac is that you want to use off-the-shelf, you can't build it, and it's all expensive compared to what you can do with a pc. That's not freedom in my book, that's somebody controlling what my technology is going to do at the price-point they set. I'm not comfortable with that.
And one other thing I'll mention. In my line of work, as an engineer who does tech-writing, those in my career field who only know Macs are looked down upon in the industry as not having too many technical smarts. This may not be fair, but it's professionally true, so I don't ever want to put myself in that position in my career field.
I have one particular co-worker who I feel is perfectly great in her work, but she has insisted on using a Mac for her whole nearly 20 years with my company. She has been passed over for promotions and raises endlessly and I know it's because she insists on that Mac. I've discussed it with her a ton of times, but she's dug in her heels about it. And what's worse, I know that on those times when she's needed to use a pc for lab work or demos, she's not been able to "get under the hood" the way we sometimes have to, to solve last minute problems. In other words, she's crippled her own career because of her Mac, and she's got a Masters in Electrical Engineering from UT!!!
So yes, I like the new Macs, my friend mentioned above has shown me the latest-greatest ones, she always has a full suite of them and all their gadgets and so forth. Nice. Great that it can act like a pc now, but not exactly, and etc. Wonderful. She's still never going to get promoted or get a raise.
So yeah, I'm pc for the most part.
I've been using both from the beginning of their inception, as well as UNIX machines and I have a home-brew Linux machine that I tinker with as well. Going farther back, I was a big Amiga fan until it finally finally died. Actually, I first worked with an Interdata 8/16 and did my first real programming on a PDP-11. But I digress....
My choice in a home computer is the pc. I build all of my home computers from scratch, and in a pc, I can make it exactly how I want it with the knowledge that still some 90+% of all components, apps and utilities will work on it.
I built a home-brew Mac a few years back and found that my only real choice was to build a "franken-Mac" - meaning, from pieces from other Macs, there really wasn't an alternative to built the machine from scratch.
There's also some basic feeling I have that I can't get as deeply under the hood with a Mac as I can with a pc. I'm reminded of all the trouble I had trying to debug a problem with a Powerbook Pismo battery recharging problem I tried to solve a couple of years ago, I mean, I couldn't get into the code at all. It was like, I either had to find something that I could point-click-install and it runs and works, or else, I was hosed. In this case, I was hosed. I didn't/don't like that feeling.
On top of this is the expense. You've really got to buy whatever the basic Mac is that you want to use off-the-shelf, you can't build it, and it's all expensive compared to what you can do with a pc. That's not freedom in my book, that's somebody controlling what my technology is going to do at the price-point they set. I'm not comfortable with that.
And one other thing I'll mention. In my line of work, as an engineer who does tech-writing, those in my career field who only know Macs are looked down upon in the industry as not having too many technical smarts. This may not be fair, but it's professionally true, so I don't ever want to put myself in that position in my career field.
I have one particular co-worker who I feel is perfectly great in her work, but she has insisted on using a Mac for her whole nearly 20 years with my company. She has been passed over for promotions and raises endlessly and I know it's because she insists on that Mac. I've discussed it with her a ton of times, but she's dug in her heels about it. And what's worse, I know that on those times when she's needed to use a pc for lab work or demos, she's not been able to "get under the hood" the way we sometimes have to, to solve last minute problems. In other words, she's crippled her own career because of her Mac, and she's got a Masters in Electrical Engineering from UT!!!
So yes, I like the new Macs, my friend mentioned above has shown me the latest-greatest ones, she always has a full suite of them and all their gadgets and so forth. Nice. Great that it can act like a pc now, but not exactly, and etc. Wonderful. She's still never going to get promoted or get a raise.
So yeah, I'm pc for the most part.
Ah, the PDP-11. I remember that one fondly! I worked in the mid-80's as a systems analyst for major brokerage firms on Wall Street. My brother and I started our own company and our software helped build the first over the counter trading systems. It was an amazing experience. We wrote our code on Stratus mainframe computers via a T1 to NYC until we coughed up $60,000 each for our flashy Apollo DN300's. These had a whopping 60MB hard drive that we simply couldn't imagine being able to fill with data!
My personal computer at the time was the flashy "portable" Osborne 1 which weighed an ungainly 25lbs! In 1984 we bought one of the original Macintosh 128K machines for our receptionist. I'd put in a long day of work and then quickly move over to the Mac to play games all night long, sleeping on my office couch for an hour or two before heading back to "work." I've kept that little Mac all these years because it was more than just a computer, it seemingly had a life and personality of its own.
A couple of years later I abandoned my cloistered computer office life to return to my first love, photojournalism, but the Macs stayed with me. I had the opposite career impetus as you, Steel, with the advent of digital imaging, it was the Windows world that was a career dampener. Every newspaper I worked at used Macs as well as every one of my freelance clients which included ad agencies, magazines and graphic designers. Today I manage my large collection of digital images (I work as a freelance photographer for a national magazine and several regional publications) using just the tools that come with the Mac OS. I used to have to invest in costly yearly upgrades for my asset management software, now with Apple's amazing Spotlight feature I can search instantly for any image by simply entering a couple of keywords. Not only does it find my images, it finds my invoices, emails and any other data corresponding with that particular job. It is truly mind blowing! Here is a search feature, built into the OS that will search embedded cutlines (the descriptive text under a photo) in every photo stored on my multiple hard drives and it returns the results in a literal blink of an eye!
Today I'm working on the 12th Apple computer I've owned - a dual processor G5 Tower with a 23" Cinema display. I've always had Windows machines of various forms and I have to admit, Microsoft has come a long ways. They've done well tosteal incorporate the designs that Apple originally put in their machines, but one of the many things that keeps me solidly in the Mac corner is the outstanding security model they've put in place. In all these years I've never had a single virus on one of my machines. I don't even own an anti-virus program. Apple designed a secure platform back in the days when Microsoft was designing a system that was so full of holes it practically invited the viruses and spyware to walk right in.
There is that mistaken belief that today's Apple purchasers are stuck with off-the-shelf options. Take a look at the Apple store to see that you can easily have a machine custom-built : http://store.apple.com Now, I'm sure there aren't the myriad of options available that an expert such as yourself demands, but I suspect that our friend Mr. Scruff is looking for simplicity.
As for the cost comparison issue, a close examination of similar machines belies the old claim that Apple is more expensive. Take a look at this comparison for example: http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/02/13/pr...rison/index.php
Granted, some other comparisons of similar machines will obviously tilt against Apple, but they do hold on to the top spot for customer satisfaction. That's got to be worth a little extra.
As a programmer, the Intel-based Apple OS X is a dream machine. I'd highly recommend that you pick up one of the new iMacs, Steel and play with it a bit. I guarantee you'll be mighty impressed. Dive under the hood and play with UNIX, power up XCode and tell me this isn't an amazing platform. Take a look at that 24" iMac with the Intel Core 2 duo processor. That baby rocks and it is only $1999!! One really cool feature that goes largely unnoticed is that is largely user serviceable. Most all of the essential components are designed to be user replacable, from the power supply to the fans. If you have a power supply that goes kaput, you just unsnap it and Apple sends you a replacement that pops in. No wonder their users are so satisfied!
My personal computer at the time was the flashy "portable" Osborne 1 which weighed an ungainly 25lbs! In 1984 we bought one of the original Macintosh 128K machines for our receptionist. I'd put in a long day of work and then quickly move over to the Mac to play games all night long, sleeping on my office couch for an hour or two before heading back to "work." I've kept that little Mac all these years because it was more than just a computer, it seemingly had a life and personality of its own.
A couple of years later I abandoned my cloistered computer office life to return to my first love, photojournalism, but the Macs stayed with me. I had the opposite career impetus as you, Steel, with the advent of digital imaging, it was the Windows world that was a career dampener. Every newspaper I worked at used Macs as well as every one of my freelance clients which included ad agencies, magazines and graphic designers. Today I manage my large collection of digital images (I work as a freelance photographer for a national magazine and several regional publications) using just the tools that come with the Mac OS. I used to have to invest in costly yearly upgrades for my asset management software, now with Apple's amazing Spotlight feature I can search instantly for any image by simply entering a couple of keywords. Not only does it find my images, it finds my invoices, emails and any other data corresponding with that particular job. It is truly mind blowing! Here is a search feature, built into the OS that will search embedded cutlines (the descriptive text under a photo) in every photo stored on my multiple hard drives and it returns the results in a literal blink of an eye!
Today I'm working on the 12th Apple computer I've owned - a dual processor G5 Tower with a 23" Cinema display. I've always had Windows machines of various forms and I have to admit, Microsoft has come a long ways. They've done well to
There is that mistaken belief that today's Apple purchasers are stuck with off-the-shelf options. Take a look at the Apple store to see that you can easily have a machine custom-built : http://store.apple.com Now, I'm sure there aren't the myriad of options available that an expert such as yourself demands, but I suspect that our friend Mr. Scruff is looking for simplicity.
As for the cost comparison issue, a close examination of similar machines belies the old claim that Apple is more expensive. Take a look at this comparison for example: http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/02/13/pr...rison/index.php
Granted, some other comparisons of similar machines will obviously tilt against Apple, but they do hold on to the top spot for customer satisfaction. That's got to be worth a little extra.
As a programmer, the Intel-based Apple OS X is a dream machine. I'd highly recommend that you pick up one of the new iMacs, Steel and play with it a bit. I guarantee you'll be mighty impressed. Dive under the hood and play with UNIX, power up XCode and tell me this isn't an amazing platform. Take a look at that 24" iMac with the Intel Core 2 duo processor. That baby rocks and it is only $1999!! One really cool feature that goes largely unnoticed is that is largely user serviceable. Most all of the essential components are designed to be user replacable, from the power supply to the fans. If you have a power supply that goes kaput, you just unsnap it and Apple sends you a replacement that pops in. No wonder their users are so satisfied!
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Hey Mr Scruff.
It has nothing to do with us and everything to do with you Scruffy! If you are in the market for a new computer, you need to start by identifying what your needs are. Each are great, but depending on "who" you are and what you are going to do with your computer would depend on which one you should consider.
PC is the clear choice for myself, I know the PC. That may just be ignorance, but I'm know what I know and am getting along fine with what I need and want to do.
Questions you should start with are... What exactly are you going to be using it for, what is your budjet, what existing hardware do you have. etc...
-sh
It has nothing to do with us and everything to do with you Scruffy! If you are in the market for a new computer, you need to start by identifying what your needs are. Each are great, but depending on "who" you are and what you are going to do with your computer would depend on which one you should consider.
PC is the clear choice for myself, I know the PC. That may just be ignorance, but I'm know what I know and am getting along fine with what I need and want to do.
Questions you should start with are... What exactly are you going to be using it for, what is your budjet, what existing hardware do you have. etc...
-sh
bump
I agree with Steel and radiation. It just depends on what you are doing. For me as an engineer, Mac's are a fancy paper weight since they do not have the horse power to run the applications I use. Since I do alot of 3D CAD modeling, Mac's are pretty useless for me. Thats not to say they are useless for everyone. Ideally I would love to have an SGI since they are the BEST, period, for 3D modeling abilities. Also I think PC's are superior for gaming with the advent of 16X PCIexpress interface. The bandwidth of PCIexpress outperforms Mac's non-PCIexpress interface. I am not a MAC guy and have not used one in years.
As far as the virus thing goes, it makes more sense to write a virus for windows since the majority of the world uses that platform. You can cause more damage that way.
As far as the virus thing goes, it makes more sense to write a virus for windows since the majority of the world uses that platform. You can cause more damage that way.
Personally, I don't feel there is an argument here. This is like asking the question, which is better Ford or Chevy, but I do enjoy pointing out the obvious lack of information people have when it comes to Macs.
Rainier_Wolfcastle, PCI Express is available in all Macs. Also there is no "horsepower" difference between Macs and Windows machines. Macs are currently shipping with the Intel Dual Core 2 duo. This is the same chip that is shipping in all top of the line Windows machines at the moment.
So, the difference between the two platforms now boils down to: Do you want Mac reliability, consumer satisfaction and the ability to run Mac OS X, Windows (all iterations), Linux or Unix on one box? If so, buy a Mac. Otherwise, stick with the tried and true Windows machine.
Rainier_Wolfcastle, PCI Express is available in all Macs. Also there is no "horsepower" difference between Macs and Windows machines. Macs are currently shipping with the Intel Dual Core 2 duo. This is the same chip that is shipping in all top of the line Windows machines at the moment.
So, the difference between the two platforms now boils down to: Do you want Mac reliability, consumer satisfaction and the ability to run Mac OS X, Windows (all iterations), Linux or Unix on one box? If so, buy a Mac. Otherwise, stick with the tried and true Windows machine.
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Radiation,
Like I said I am not a mac guy but mac's were a little slow on the PCI express implemtation. But you are right there is no argument here. For what I do I can say without a doubt, Mac's are useless. Sure you can run a windows emulation but that takes even more system resources and make the high end software I deal with unstable. Unix/Linux does not matter the hardware is the same. As far as reliability, other than a hard drive have you ever burned out any hardware? I have not. They get outdated before they go bad. I have a pentium pro 200 MHz and a DX 33MHZ that still works. So reliability is not an issue. The MAC OS does not run any high end software I use. Its like having a car that runs on diesel but all you have is gasoline. So "horsepower" was probably not the best term to use but it gets the point across.
I dont have a problem with Mac's but in my professional life they are not worth anything. Which brings us back to the original point; what do you use your machine for?
Like I said I am not a mac guy but mac's were a little slow on the PCI express implemtation. But you are right there is no argument here. For what I do I can say without a doubt, Mac's are useless. Sure you can run a windows emulation but that takes even more system resources and make the high end software I deal with unstable. Unix/Linux does not matter the hardware is the same. As far as reliability, other than a hard drive have you ever burned out any hardware? I have not. They get outdated before they go bad. I have a pentium pro 200 MHz and a DX 33MHZ that still works. So reliability is not an issue. The MAC OS does not run any high end software I use. Its like having a car that runs on diesel but all you have is gasoline. So "horsepower" was probably not the best term to use but it gets the point across.
I dont have a problem with Mac's but in my professional life they are not worth anything. Which brings us back to the original point; what do you use your machine for?
Radiation, (
SORRY I MEANT HAMMATIME)
SORRY I MEANT HAMMATIME)
QUOTE(Rainier_Wolfcastle @ 11/04/06 9:42pm) 
Radiation, (
SORRY I MEANT HAMMATIME)
SORRY I MEANT HAMMATIME)
I guess you just aren't getting the point here, Wolfcastle. All of your Windows software runs on the new Macs as all new Macs ship with their OS operating on the Intel chip. No emulation software needed. You can run Windows and any number of other OS's in any number of flavors. There is no horsepower issue, no "slow-down" through emulation as the CPU is the very same chip that your top of the line Windows machines operate on.
This thread perfectly illustrates how many people manage to confuse this type of discussion about Macs because they simply don't know what they are talking about when it comes to Apple configurations.
And yes, Eric, you can do just what you suggested, that's one of the things that is making the Apple platform an amazing machine for someone just like yourself! If you really want to experiment, drop $599 on the Mac mini - it's the size of a small stack of CD jewel cases http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/20.../macminiinside/ and have some fun! You can hook it up to your existing monitor or your television. It even comes with a remote which makes it perfect as a home entertainment system.
Like I said I am not a Mac guy and have not touched one in years. But if these macs you speak of come with windows OS and runs PC hardware, doesnt that make it a PC? Is the pretty colored cases with an apple on it that costs that much more that make it a Mac? Or are they re-badged PC's with a mac logo? I am just asking. Now it is your chance as a Mac guy to enlighten us PC people.
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For me it's Pc. Let us place PC and Mac in one box, then everybody will be happy 
Guys, this is not Ford vs Chevy, cause in the case of these two automobiles, they both are exactly the same to someone getting into the driver's seat. That's not true with Mac vs PC.
And if it's true that you can now make a Mac boot up and seem exactly, 100% like a pc, including how to get under the hood and all the hardware hook-ups outside, then, why bother????? Just get a pc if what you want is a pc, and yes, you can get what you want cheaper if what you want is a pc.
Two months ago, one of the magazines I subscribe to, MaximumPC, showed exactly how to make your own kick-a** gaming machine for under $500.
Case closed. If you want a Mac, and you know how to use a Mac, go Mac. If you want a PC, and know how to use a PC, go PC. If you know Macs and want a Mac but also know PCs and want to be able to emulate that capability, think about either two machines or see what you can do along these lines with a Mac.
I agree with it's what you want to do with the machine, and how you want to personally grow your knowledge, either personally or for your career.
And if it's true that you can now make a Mac boot up and seem exactly, 100% like a pc, including how to get under the hood and all the hardware hook-ups outside, then, why bother????? Just get a pc if what you want is a pc, and yes, you can get what you want cheaper if what you want is a pc.
Two months ago, one of the magazines I subscribe to, MaximumPC, showed exactly how to make your own kick-a** gaming machine for under $500.
Case closed. If you want a Mac, and you know how to use a Mac, go Mac. If you want a PC, and know how to use a PC, go PC. If you know Macs and want a Mac but also know PCs and want to be able to emulate that capability, think about either two machines or see what you can do along these lines with a Mac.
I agree with it's what you want to do with the machine, and how you want to personally grow your knowledge, either personally or for your career.
Personaly i like PCs because they've never failed me before. and mine is the greatest EVER.
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