I know wiki is a good site for infor on ww2, but does anyone here [i know some of you know ur ww2 history] know of a good ww2 website where i can get detail infor on battle plans, unit details, and photos of maps?

I need it for something im working on.

Anyhelp be great.

Can you narrow it down a bit for us? i.e. what battle are you seeking info about?

Try this http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/FAQ/2283

http://www.topedge.com/panels/ww2/na/frame.html

http://www.dasreich.ca/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:World_War_II




http://www.euronet.nl/users/wilfried/ww2/ww2.htm

Thanks Rommel for these web sights .Have you ever read the book"The Trail of the Fox"by David Irving?If not its a good one about the real Rommal.

Thanks Rommel.

I have read a lot of good books about the WW-II, but not the book you mention.

Have you read books from Sven Hassel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Hassel http://www.svenhassel.net/

http://www.svenhassel.info/








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Great books! I read a few of them years back.
The Albert character was a genius throw-in.... especially in one book where he's in a parade with Porta's unit and all the Generals are scratching their heads.....




Yes, what are you working on Bark- some of us ww2 battle buffs maybe can help you out extra too.

I'd be concerned about facts with any book by David Irving. It appears that he based some his "facts" on very dubious sources. His estimates for number of dead in Dresden were taken from Goebbels himself and cold-war era Soviet "historians". Even when his "facts" were proven incorrect Irving would only reduce them slightly (still almost 5 times the agreed number of dead). Anyway, just saying be careful Irving.

making some big battle maps for Combat Mission
I need all the detail infor i can get in order to make the map and battle operations.
I came across maney websites but i only get a story about the battles not too much detail.

1. Battle of Kharkov in 1943 the 3rd battle of the city.
I know abit about it, just if i can find a map of kharkov, a over veiw from the top.
And i know who was in the battle just dont know what type of armour types ATguns and AVP arty units types. You can say pz4's but i need more infor on the model types also for i.e. pz4 h and pz4 g or panther model a or d you know what i mean?. wiki doesnt have much unless im looking at wrong page.


2. Battle at Arnhem 1944
I know the british 1st AB was there and the 2SSPZ division was there, but once again i still need
what armour, any atguns or sp-guns and avps where the germans where useing.
Map i dont need. One more thing i dont remember but did the Pol's make it to Arnhem?

3. Battle at Bastogne 1944 [Did i spell it right? lol]
Only thing i need is a top over veiw of map and what types of armour both sides had.


Thanks for anyhelp.

I'll see about helping 1 topic at a time; Market Garden is my niche in the WW2 arena. So I'll start with that. The Germans had just about every conceivable armour of course with so many armoured units involved ranging from crack SS units to even Dutch units in German service-including Dutch SS units.

There were tons of mixed units too due to the traditional German doctrine of rapid fierce counter attack when possible so you can imagine any motorized vehicle at Germans disposal was used;

Here's an excellent/ probably definitive site for the Arnhem portion of the campaign;
http://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/frames.htm

Poles never made it to Arnhem- they organised at Driel... a village south of the Rhine near to Oosterbeek- the last Brit paras holdout point.

Germans had many halftracks in use. The famous bridge assault that got crushed [and was spectacularly depicted in the movie 'A Bridge Too Far'] was a recce unit. Tiger 1's broke across the bridge a day later.
Panthers and MklVs were there too. With the Paras fighting ferociously the Germ. commanders decided to just do things Stalingrad style and blast neighbourhood blocks to rubble. Mostly heavy SPs were doing this. Also, the Oosterbeek pocket was nicknamed the 'Cauldron' [a big pot of bubbly hot liquid] since German arty fire into that area was so intense. The arty available was everything - mortars, howitzers, field artillery and AT guns of all calibres... there were even 105mm/150mm arty gun units in significant numbers.
I think the Brits would've been completely wiped out were it not for Brit 30 Corps elite field artillery being called in to fire long-range in smashing German probe attacks into the Paras perimeter.

Here's an interesting thingy. Everyone thinks the Americans were the first to cross the Rhine by boat.... but actually it was a company from the British 30 Corps /43rd ivision that was sent in to reinforce the Oosterbeek pocket... it was a night boat crossing/attack and I think the coy. got hurt pretty bad in the crossing.

I'll see if I can find you some other stuff besides that link I got ya.


EDIT 2-

Also read this.... tiger tanks were scraped together basically- not many were present/used;
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...05084115AARDmSK

wow! thanks HF thats what im looking for, That helps me out alot.

oops you got back fast.....
I like that first link I gave you but I see not everything is there..... as I said though 9thSS is the chief opponent of the Paras there were as I said huge mixes of Geman and Dutch units pulled in from the surrounding area to fight in Arnhem.... Luftwaffe/naval ground units too.... keep checking this post for more stuff I'll add...
this link is about Tiger tanks at Arnhem... the ones the piat shots bounced off in the movie;
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...05084115AARDmSK


edit 2
Here's the Tiger section [3 tanks -apparently tiger ll's -Royal ] under command of Maj.gen Harmel
-20 more tigers arrived later
http://www.lonesentry.com/panzer/tiger-tank-abteilung.html

These might be helpful



Battle of Kharkov in 1943 the 3rd battle of the city

http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/maps/maps1942SW.htm

http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/maps/to...rkov_250000.jpg



Battle at Arnhem 1944

http://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/frames.htm

http://www.marketgarden.com/2010/UK/frames.html

http://www.defendingarnhem.com/index.htm (Order of Battle details some of the German units)

http://www.defendingarnhem.com/Links.htm


Battle at Bastogne 1944

http://www.histoquiz-contemporain.com/Hist...44/bastogne.htm

http://www.histoquiz-contemporain.com/Hist...44/Dossiers.htm

http://www.bastognehistoricalcenter.be/ind...es_ardennes.htm#

lol man i was also looking for a good map for arnhem....and it hit me just now i got one of the best tools for maps.....Google Earth....

I got alot of good stuff for me to start at less working on my arnhem operation for CM game.

Sorry to burst your bubble mr.barkmann but that google earth map is way off for how Arnhem looked in 44... especially around the bridge area where Frost was set-up. Some buildings are missing in some areas, and open areas in 44 now have buildings on them....
Especially those highway bendings near the bridge-not there in 44.
I'll look through clanceys links and see if it has the maps you need... also keep in mind if you are refighting the actual brifdgehead battle you'll only need the downtown area of Arnhem since thats where most of the Brits set up their perimeter.

follow-up edit;
Here are some good photos;-
I actually have a good map of the fight area from a wargame; if you want I'll scan the section you want [bridgehead] and mail to you if the references here are too vague.

Shows the bridgehead [north of the Rhine] -note on google earth alot of the buildings are gone
http://www.nntk.net/galleries/gallery_arnh...s/arnhem24.html
http://www.nntk.net/galleries/gallery_arnh...s/arnhem08.html

To get a good idea of the bridgehead rent the movie 'A Bridge Too Far' made in 1977 -alot of buildings were still around for the movie.

This one shows Arnhem center looking towards the south of the bridge [right hand side of pic].
http://www.nntk.net/galleries/gallery_arnh...s/arnhem23.html

Arnhem bridge after Grubner's recce unit got destroyed trying to cross it.
http://www.nntk.net/galleries/gallery_arnh...s/arnhem33.html


General Map showing dropzone areas/battle areas
http://www.nntk.net/arnhem_1944/arnhem_map.html

Clancey already got this very excellent site; [Clancey an interested ww2 buff methinx ]
http://www.marketgarden.com/2010/UK/
http://www.marketgarden.com

start from here for the meat of what you seek
http://www.marketgarden.com/2010/UK/frames.html
this map left to right is from the west approaching the bridge

thats ok HF, i cant make the map look 100% like Arnhem anyways just make it look something like a big city with a big brigde in it, and toss in some buildings into it. And im not going to make the whole Arnhem city, just key battle spots or try too lol.


One photo shows you the southside of Arnhem soo far i made.
This one shows you the buildings i got to play with in the game.



Heres my email HF if you can send that thingy for me.



Rhincodon2010@hotmail.com Sorry no spam thank you lol

actually delete your email from the forum in an edit to be practising safe online habits,barkmann; send it to me in a pm next time . i'll post the pic here in the forum tomorrow for you.

Remember south side of Arnhem is very clear of buildings - the north side is the built up area. And Brits made the houses like fortresses almost- so the defence value for their position should be as high as can be. imo

ps-get hold of 'A Bridge Too Far' movie........it'll help alot.

Here's the pic Bark,
The right side of pic is the north end of the Bridge.
[hehee -compare it to the current google map of the area! ]

The Brits at the bridge should get off board arty support after the bridge is taken -historically- from Oosterbeek where airborne arty was set-up.

My advice- to make the impression the Brits were holding houses like fortresses, change the German infantry to at most Regular level - no elite units... Actually many german units rushed into the area were not a high quality type.
this would reflect the Brit expertise in urban defence and the hazards of sniper firing, rubbled streets, sudden ambushes etc.

kool thanks.

I did a test run lastnight with the germans first tryed to retake the bridge back with the halftracks and other armoured cars, and they got crash. Things are almost done and i'll show you the map when its done and once again thanks for the help.

hah- I'm drooling to see any pics/screenshots of the battle, Bark

OK heres the map done.

Just remember i can only do so much with what i got to work with in game.

I did my best to make it look like Arnhem, but well you see, it sucks that the game doesnt have better bridges to pick from. Now i just need MOD to install his copy of Combat Mission 3 and we can start the battle, to see how things will work out.



HF, i read that the brits had 6pd guns and 17pd guns in arnhem is this true?

I can see the 6pd guns but the 17pd guns?

That looks really cool Barkmann!!!!

Very nice work Bark! But the woods maybe a bit too big- but I'm not sure what scale you're working on -but if its a big scale then there was indeed that woods/open terrain area where you have it now.

I added a bunch of new links below. Brits had 6pdr AT guns one or two [looks like one though] very near the bridge. From what else I read in memoirs, there were a few [well at least 1 ] AT guns in Arnhem hidden around/unable to get to the bridge section.
But no 17 pdrs in Arnhem city as far as I knowl.
Paras in Arnhem had lots of light+medium mortars too. Also remember there were several Brit. airborne companies to the west of the bridgehead in Arnhem trying fight there way to join up at the bridge - and later on trying to get back to Oosterbeek base.

The Howitzer units/ field artillery units/ 17 pdrs of the Airborne were at Oosterbeek providing fire support at the bridge. Apparently too, defenders at the bridge had radios working to get in touch with the main body at Oosterbeek to have them fire in air-burst shells on the recce unit attacking the bridge [18th Sep] - a fact not shown in the movie 'bridge too far'.
30 Corps provides [off board] tremendous heavy arty support to Oosterbeek after Sep 21 [I think that date]
Details are in the links below. I added a few more links- namely one about a canadian engineer unit taking part in the 'Garden'/ground part of the operation that provided the boats for that first river crossing of the Rhine by the Allies [a portion of a reinforcing battalion from 43rd Div. into Oosterbeek perimeter].

arty links;
http://www.1stairlandingantitankbattery.com/
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bridg...rketGarden.html
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/printthr...&perpage=40

excerpt from a book reviewer ;
Arnhem 1944: The Airborne Battle
By R. A Forczyk (Laurel, MD USA) - See all my reviews
(TOP 500 REVIEWER) (REAL NAME)
This book represents another great effort by Martin Middlebrook. At first, one might ask why another book on Operation Market-Garden is necessary. The answer is that Middlebrook focus just on the actions of the units at Arnhem, ignoring the US airborne divisions further south and the advance of 30th Corps. The result is an account that presents far more detail than most accounts of the Arnhem fighting, which tend to focus mainly on Lieutenant Colonel Frost's battalion at Arnhem bridge.
Middlebrook begins his account with an in-depth description of the British 1st Airborne Division that covers every battalion and subordinate unit in detail. Readers will learn what every key unit, including the oft-neglected support units, could contribute to the battle. I was surprised to learn for example, just how many anti-tank guns that the British took to Arnhem: 52 six-pounders (57mm) and 16 seventeen-pounders (76mm). Most accounts of the battle do not mention the seventeen pounders, which gave the British a decent anti-tank weapon against even the heavier German tanks in the vicinity.

other nice short write-ups;
http://www.legionmagazine.com/features/can...story/00-09.asp
http://www.warmuseums.nl/gal/029gal.htm
http://home.wanadoo.nl/cclinks/abtf/monday~1.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/50/a3220750.shtml

I added a 2 more map attachments too- down below.

Well i didnt think they had any ATguns at Arnhem, maybe what i was reading was in general in the operation they had 6pd and 17pd, just not in arnhem.
Its a big scale map, so thats why its 10times bigger then the photo you had for me.
Im playing a game now just as a kinda test run to see how things are, but doesnt matter what i do, those armour HT and Cars just get pown on the blooy bridge, need to wait for the big guns to show up.

Heres a photo of a spitfire on a recon flight as you can see things dont look to good for me on that bridge.

Out of 17 units one got away from the bridge alive lol

wow- I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it, but you've done an excellent job recreating the map and the action!
More pics please!!! Really amazing actually how it looks like the actual after battle photo.
I was remembering no AT guns either, but there was definately several 6pdrs inside the bridge perimeter as described in that first link in the last post-the info was gotten from a book 'Gunners at Arnhem' written by an Arnhem vet -sooo, I'll agree with him and the other sources saying same thing too It mentions two AT guns also took part in destroying Grabners recce unit also - so if you didn't have that in your first test fight- maybe next time that surviving vehicle wont get away
Did you see the movie 'A Bridge Too Far ' yet?

I own the movie, and i watch it like 20times already lol.

I give the brits at less 2 6pds.

Tonight my heavy armour units are going in.

yes indeed

Generals Clancey and me are frothing at the mouth to see screenies of the drama unfolding as the Germans and Airborne pummel each other at point-blank
ps- don't manipulate us into a 'pay-per-view' thing

Good News Bad News



-Good news i got tons of screenshots for you

-Bad News i got my new pc today and i was reinstalling everything and i dont know how but i lost all my maps for combat mission's FUCKED! <sorry for swearing but it took me days to make maps kinda mad>

Oh well i guess i have to redo the arnhem map again aaaahhhhh

bummer about the maps, but COOL for the new PC

lol- too bad bark- now you know -> back up projects + important files to cds whenever you have the chance.
Lots of Screenies ! great......

yea i made a photo/video of the screenshots i took

just trying to upload them now on youtube