Just wanted to point out I called Palin as VP over 4 months ago, for all the same reasons the decision was made now.
If McCain wins, I honestly believe this will be what puts him over the top.

Also you couldn't ask for better timing to make this announcement.
The DNC convention ended last night with a huge bang an there's not a single leading news story about it.
The news is 100% about Palin as VP.
Talk about stealing someones thunder.

I hope they win an McCain dies the next day.

You really think this was a good choice??

She is under a state ethics investigation and could be forced to step down as governor. The investigation results are scheduled to be announced before the November election.

She was a mayor of a small town, and now has under 2 years experience as governor of one of the smallest population states in the country. She has no foreign policy experience. She is a climate change denialist. McCain met her ONCE for crying out loud!!

If this is someone you think is GOOD for the ticket, I'd love to learn who you think would have been a bad choice.

Sure hope she has had some debating experience, as Biden would be a challenge for even the most experienced debater. Perhaps she'll do an Admiral Stockdale, "Who am I?? Why am I here?"

I would view this choice as very, very poor. No Kay Bailey?? No Condi?? She will do for this ticket what Geraldine did for Mondale.

Over 40 million watched Obama's speech - more than the worldwide audience that watched the opening of the Olympics. This was stealing thunder??

Have you forgotten who Druid... errr... Robert is?

Sarcasm rules the day!

I'm sorry if I forget your mentioning it, Robert, but a few weeks ago or so I hit a blog that had a HOT picture of her when she was younger and talked about how she could be a VP candidate. At the time I thought it was mostly stupid. I say mostly only because I could see the benefits of choosing her.

BTW, it has nothing to do with the welfare of our nation.

Obama is realtivly young and inexperienced. Apparently people love that (I'm going to try to be neutral for this evaluation). However Obama has run into trouble becuase Feminists feel robbed of their candidate, much in the way of Gore losing to Bush. This isn't just a standard, I'm bitter we lost, but a "we got robbed of our woman candidate and we're pissed".

Now, add to this the fact that this is the most middle of the road election we've had as long as I can recall, which isn't much less than you guys.

In my oppinion this is a poor gamble, but a very understandable one. If the people want "fresh and new ideas", well, she's got them. If you are upset a woman wasn't put on the Dem ticket, well the Rep's got that covered too. Hell, she's a regular Mom! She's barely a politician at all, so how's that for wanting a person who isn't jaded by DC?!?!!?

Frankly I don't even know where to go at this point. Russia has added a HUGE twist to the election. Personally I want the EU to handle that. It doesn't effect us as much as them and we are spread to thin to do anything other than bomb shit, so I want Sarkozy to have to deal with that shit. I'm worried that if we go Republican we'll get too involved there. I was really worried about McCain picking Lieberman. We don't need a third front. Israel will take care of business if needed. No need getting our boys involved.

Ok, I think I had some other point, but I'm tired and getting buzzed and I think I'm still jet lagged. This jet lag thing is really pissing me off. I thought I could beat it. I had it all figured out. I was wrong. I'm beat.

Great choice. It's amazing to me how they keep bringing up her lack of experience yet she has more experience than Obama and he's at the top of the dems ticket. The more they bring it up, the more they hurt themselves.



Pics or it didn't happen!

She has a nice smile. Makes me want to see her naked bottom. May get my vote. Never know.

Me calling it 4 months ago
http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...st&p=172605

She is under a state ethics investigation and could be forced to step down as governor. The investigation results are scheduled to be announced before the November election.
I'm sure everyone who was part of this decision to pick her probably know everything about this investigation.
More than everyone who brings this up against her.
If there was any chance this dog would bite she wouldn't have been picked.
I did a lot of reading about this today and for me it sounds like a loser if people are pinning their hopes this will hurt the McCain/Palin ticket.
1) The guy who they claim was pressured to be fired, wasn't fired.
2) The guy ( Monegan ) who was fired an claims it "May or may not" be due to pressure by Palin refuses to talk to the investigators. He will only go on the record if subpoenaed.
3) Monegan serves in a position that is within the control of Palin as Governor. So she's within her right to hire or fire anyone in that position. The only reason this is questioned is because of Why, which wasn't brought up until afterwards.
4) So Palin, her husband and staff have all freely talked to people investigating this, the person who claims he "May have been, he admits he doesn't know for sure" doesn't want to talk to investigators.
5) Want to know why Monegan doesn't want to talk about it. He was supplied with information that Wooten, tasered his son, hunting illegally, drunk driving, and video proof that Wooten had filed and was collecting on a bogus work comp claim. What did Monegan do when he was contacted by Mr. Palin about all that, nothing.
Maybe I'll be wrong but I don't see this going anywhere.
I think that's why you keep hearing how Palin is under an ethics investigation but none of the facts.



She was a mayor of a small town, and now has under 2 years experience as governor of one of the smallest population states in the country. She has no foreign policy experience. She is a climate change denialist. McCain met her ONCE for crying out loud!!
I laugh every time I see someone bring up her lack of experience. It's silly to claim she's to inexperienced to be VP while Obama has no more experience is a great choice for President. Obama was only a Senator for 2 years before announcing his bid for president.
What where his big accomplishments during his short stint in the senate.
* Overall missed 30% of the votes.
* When Mr. Change did vote, he voted party line 97% which is why he's ranked as the most liberal senator.
Unlike all the political hawks talking about experience or lack there of, I don't think it matters.
I don't believe any job could really prepare someone for president of the U.S.
To me it comes down to the person, I'm not a slave to part lines like most people.
For a long list of reasons I think she was a better pick that anyone else mentioned as a possible VP.




"Sure hope she has had some debating experience, as Biden would be a challenge for even the most experienced debater. Perhaps she'll do an Admiral Stockdale, "Who am I?? Why am I here?"
This is another issue I've sen raised a lot on several sites.
I don't think it' going to be an issue. There is only 1 VP debate, which rarely is an active open debate.
It's much more of a forum for talking points than actual debate. I think Biden will have to careful how he tries to go after Palin. Since she's an outsider, I think it will make her a harder target.
Can't attack her on experience, she'll just throw his own words about Obama in his face.



Over 40 million watched Obama's speech - more than the worldwide audience that watched the opening of the Olympics. This was stealing thunder??
I think it's great that many people watched the end of the DNC. It means people are getting involved, which is always a good thing. It's a failure on your part if you think those numbers automatically translate into Obama supporters. May guess is almost half where people who won't be voting or supporting Obama, like myself.
As I pointed out earlier, As huge as his speech was, barely a mention of it in th news the next day because McCains VP announcement stole the thunder from the DNC.
People are playing up Obama's boost in the polls following the close of the DNC. Honestly it's completely typical and was expected. McCain will see a similar boost after the RNC.
In fact Obama's current 8-point swing is BELOW average for a post-convention bounce.
The average since 64 has been 10%.
You can't count polls or any other indicator this early. If they were really indicative of who would win, Kerry would have won in 2004.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's still an uphill battle for McCain/Palin Ticket. I simply think this ticket has more of a chance than other likely pick.

What I do know is Obmam's Campaign 1st response of dismissing Palin was all wrong, which is why Obama/Biden quickly came out an officially apologized for the preliminary response.
The O/B ticket will have to play this very carefully, if their seen as unfairly attacking M/P because of Palin.
2-3% of pissed off or offended female voters will change the outcome of this election.

You do know I was kidding... right?

Of course I did, didn't know about anyone else who might read this.

Maybe Druid has a crystal ball. Or possibly just ESPN.

Different blog, but this was the pic:

http://askpang.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/sabine5.jpg

Me calling it 4 months ago

Amazing call! How did you come up with that??

I'm sure everyone who was part of this decision to pick her probably know everything about this investigation.

Riiiiggght. And weren't these the same people who thought Hussein had WMDs, and Al Qaeda was in Iraq working with Saddam ...

I did a lot of reading about this today and for me it sounds like a loser if people are pinning their hopes this will hurt the McCain/Palin ticket.

The investigation could certainly amount to a hill of beans, but it is an INVESTIGATION into her ETHICS, when she claims to be ethical. It is certainly a distraction, it certainly raises questions of her judgment once she attains office. And I don't know where you have been hearing about the investigation, but none of the facts, virtually every article I've read to date cites many of the issues you've brought forth. Certainly we will learn more and more about this affair. Dangerous for the McCain campaign? Probably not, but clearly an added element of risk for a campaign that can least afford it.

It's silly to claim she's to inexperienced to be VP while Obama has no more experience is a great choice for President. Obama was only a Senator for 2 years before announcing his bid for president.

Obama has something in his background that supersedes his relative lack of experience, something that Palin can't possibly match - he engaged and defeated perhaps the strongest presidential candidate in recent history, a candidate who had the support of her party's staunchest and richest supporters. He may not have convinced you or me that he has the right amount of experience, but he sure convinced a majority of Democrats that he has the judgment of a leader.

Palin was interviewed on Kudlow & Cramer last month and asked her interviewer, "As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day?"

So, Palin brings to the ticket very little experience and she now starts her campaign for an office for which she doesn't know precisely what will be required of her. Great.

Did she even campaign for McCain? I haven't seen any evidence, in fact, in an interview last month she sounded hopeful that Obama would win her state as he represented the same "change" that she had been pushing for in her campaign for governor.

It's a failure on your part if you think those numbers automatically translate into Obama supporters. May guess is almost half where people who won't be voting or supporting Obama, like myself.

Obviously, not all the viewers of his speech were supporters. If half the viewers were supporters, I'd be surprised, but we miss the greater picture here. The Obama campaign required that those who received tickets to the speech had to commit to six hours of volunteer time between now and the election. That translates into an incredible amount of physical support that won't be dampened by the timing of McCain's announcement.

I generally don't like to cite empirical evidence, but I attended a party last night and was surprised that everyone had watched the speech, with one exception, and that was because of a prior commitment. What everyone wanted to talk about was Obama's argument that these past eight years shouldn't be rewarded with four more. These people had clearly bought into the McSame argument. If this same conversation was occurring across the country, McCain and Palin have their work cut out for them.

I'm looking forward to hearing from Palin. She certainly is a unique choice, and perhaps what America needs right now is some unique thinking. Certainly, the status quo is not cutting it!!

Another funny comparison between Biden and Palin.
Dems keep trying to minimze the fact she was ONLY the Govenor of Alaska ( pop. 670,000 )
Kind of a weak point when you consider Biden's is ONLY a senator from Delaware.
Whats Delaware's claim to fame, oh that's right. "At least we're bigger than Rhode Island"
Ranked 49th in size and 45th by population.

Or Palin critics could just stick with the overblown ethics issue.
Then again that may not be a good idea since Biden lost his 1988 presidential bid partly due to him plagiarizing someone else's speech. I guess some people don't learn, he got in trouble during law school where he got flunked out of a class for plagiarizing another paper.
He didn't do much better in math since he claims he graduated in the top half of his class.
Unless you think 75 is half of 85 because that's where he ranked in his graduating class.



As for her reply during the interview where she says "I don't know what a VP does"
That was clearly a joke. Which is obviously why every clip I've seen on T.V. of that cuts her answer short.

Something I do agree with Hamma on.
While I don't strongly agree with the McSame argument, I do completely agree that will be McCain's biggest hurdle. In my personal opinion it's his biggest weaknesses.
McCain played much better as possible president when he was more of a centralist or Moderate.
Unfortunately for him, I think his prior independent attitude was better but he had to move more right to capture the Republican nomination.
In a roundabout way I think this is why Palin will play so well for him.
Both sides will find something to like in her.
She's a very strong conservative so the hardline Pubs will like her. While at the same time shes taken a strong stand against Republican interest when she personally disagreed with it, which the more independent Pubs will like.

Win or lose, yesterday saw a huge spike in my interest level.

I thoroughly agree with this, but for me it isn't a matter of where he resided on the political chart, it was that he was a passionate advocate for HIS POSITION. He was willing to engage anyone in a debate and he chose his side on an issue based upon his judgment, not the recent polling results.

I shouldn't emphasize this too much, as I think a lot of the folklore of his being a maverick is just that, folklore. I've heard from a few elderly folks (70's -80's) who feel they all too readily recognize aging issues in his behavior.

A terrific match up would have been the McCain of 2000 vs. Obama.

Ooops! The local reaction in Alaska to her selection hasn't been very positive. The Anchorage Daily News had a mix of reactions, and the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner editorial was far from glowing.

Glad to see your digging around for news unlike other people who mindlessly rely on Fox or MsNBC.
You should go back an re-read the editorial at Fairbanks Daily. Then read the comments left, to me it clears show the editorial misgauged local opinion. As for the other article you linked to, it just shows Palin doesn't pull punches even when dealing with members of her own party. For me that's a huge plus.

I realize I'm probably alone on this point but I don't see "experience" being that big of an issue.
Mostly because I think the implied suggestion that experience in one thing will translate to President is bullshit.
I'm more concerned about character an personal ability then anything else because in the end that's what's going to make a difference, not some phantom experience which I doubt translates to anything useful as President.
The only good thing is it allows me to pull out one of my all time favorite Reagan quotes.
When Reagan was campaigning for Governor, his opponent enlisted help from Senator Kennedy who went on the speaking tour. Kennedy would open his speech with ""Reagan has never held any political office before and here he is seeking the top spot in the government of California."
Needless to say Kennedy never said that again after Reagen publicly replied with
"Well, you know, come to think of it, the senator from Massachusetts never held ANY job before he became a senator."
We can argue about Reagan as President but I think he was unarguably great as Governor, with Zero experience I might add.


I wonder how many Obama fan remember exactly how and why he was elected to the senate.
Obama won the Dem spot when the leader by double digits had to pull out of the race over reports of domestic abuse. Then Obama got a free walk into his senate seat when Jack Ryan who was leading in the race had to bow out over a sex scandal.
It was because of this huge upset that Obama was suddenly put center stage an keynote speaker at the next DNC.
If you're wondering what my point is, simply this.
Obama's "experience" isn't what got him to where he is now.
He can thank the Democratic leader for the Illinois Senate slot for slapping his wife around.
Then thank his Republican opponent for pulling a Clinton an not being able to keep his pecker in his pants.

The hard-core wingers will stop at nothing....alleging that Palin is not the mother of her child... SAD!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/12.../137/486/580223

This could leave a mark
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2008/aug...uilty-extortion

What makes it worse is Cari's still on the Dem payroll.

Palin given the Chuck Norris treatment

* Sarah Palin begins every day with a moment of silence for the political enemies buried in her yard.
* Sarah Palin always beats the point spread.
* Sarah Palin once bit the head off a live Osprey snatched from the air as it tried to fly off with a fish she caught.
* Sarah Palin uses French Canadians as bait to catch giant king salmon.
* When Sarah Palin booked a flight to Europe, the French immediately surrendered.
* Sarah Palin plays Whack-a-Mole with her forehead, and always gets a perfect score.
* Sarah Palin knows who was on the grassy knoll.
* Sarah Palin’s finishing move in the VP debate will be pulling Biden’s still beating heart from his chest & taking a bite.

Peggy Sue posted thsi on BLAM



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bza63nnqiKA...?urn=nba,104578

A great country we live in!

I normally prefer to not reply on anything less then multi day tracking polls.
As an early gauge to the Palin announcement, I think this one is interesting.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html

Stands in stark contrast to the Dem assertion the Palin VP pick was a nail in McCain's coffin.

Two points I think are interesting.
"A very important demographic in this election is going to be the politically independent woman, 15% of whom in our latest survey are undecided."
I think a higher percentage of these will end up for McCain.

The interactive survey shows that 22% of those voters who supported Democrat Hillary Clinton in their primary elections or caucus earlier this year are now supporting John McCain.
Definitely not the die hard Hillary fans or Democrat loyalist but more than I expected.
This is why I was a little surprised Obama didn't go with Kathleen Sebelius for VP, as she was reported to be on the short list of possible VP's
From a personal standpoint, I was hoping to get rid of Sebelius if Obama wins in Nov.

Ouch! (If true... it is KOS after all)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/31/17.../834/246/581480

Probably true. KOS leans towards sensationalism but its usually accurate.

Kind of like 57 states Obama campaigned in.

New CNN Poll numbers
Obama 49
McCain 48

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...a-49-mccain-48/

Runner up to Miss Alaska 1988.

Daddy want.

Well the whole baby thing has been proven as bogus.
In fact one of the pictures KOS used to show what they claimed was a bun in the oven of Palin's daughter was from the previous year.
Here is Palin obviously preggy
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p312/CO...rahPalin-13.jpg

Really to bad it didn't get more play outside of political blogs and forums. If even a hint of the story made it into mainstream media, there would have been a large surge of support for Palin from a lot of pissed off an offended women.
You guys that are married, you know what I'm talking about.
Shows how stupid some people on the left are. Attacking Palin over this even IF it was true would only push votes their way. I don't know how many idiots I saw suggesting this would prevent Palin from being VP because of "Fraud"
LMAO

I'd like to do an Iditarod from the small of her back to the furry triangle of death.

I have a TomTom GPS, I'm not too fricken worried.

Rut-Ro....


Palin Says Her Daughter, 17, Is Pregnant


http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/us/internat...amp;oref=slogin

That's why it's important to teach your daughters to swallow.....

Is this 1984?

Fuck



What is up with all these chicks getting knocked up at 17?

they live in alaska dont they ?

Hey, you guys impress the hell out of me. For the past several days it seemed as if I was getting all the breaking news on this story from this very forum.

I still haven't figured out how Real dug up the Palin isn't mother story, but that sure was a fun ride. I still want to know how Robert first came up with her as a viable pick, months before anyone else had heard of her!

Did you see Joe Klein's piece on Time magazine's blog about the Frank Luntz focus group? They weren't too thrilled with Robert's pick, seeing the pick as negative on a 2 to 1 ratio: http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/08...the_sequel.html

It amazes me how this is blowing up before our very eyes. McCain thinks he is getting a younger, female maverick and then the country discovers she isn't much of a maverick and what little is there is obscured by all the ghosts rattling around in her closet.

I just can't understand the incompetence. According to the local Wasilla newspaper's archive librarian, McCain's lawyers never checked the newspaper archive for any potential damaging stories. Ooops! How much more is out there, I wonder. Some of those archives have revealed that residents in the town started a recall after she fired the Police Chief and librarian because they hadn't supported her candidacy. You've got to be kidding me!

But, back to Frank Luntz for a moment. This is a great story to play my favorite online game, "Where's Your Objectivity!?"

Jump over to Google News and punch in Frank Luntz. Check out a number of stories on the little media frenzied focus group he ran and let your jaw drop as you see this spun in so many different ways. My favorite is the U.S. New and World Report which manages to completely dance over what Klein cited in his piece, the majority didn't like her.

Now check out the footage for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnV1pS7qVD8

Who reported this event more accurately??

I think that only Land Owners should have the right to Vote in this election...!



And the first VP elect with cleavage got me thinking ....Wheres my Jergans hand lotion at ?



Hamma...It does have its benfits would'nt ya say? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0D_zoS_kxY common smile...



"T.M."

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!!

Although, I fully expected we would have full disclosure from that prospective candidate and I now consider myself a disgruntled and apathetic voter.

Woe.

She is very sarcastic.



Just lost my vote.

Hamma.
I'm a little surprised people think Palin was some off the wall pick from left field.
While she was unknown, that's not necessarily a bad thing. There was issues with the other likely choices. On a personal level McCain would have preferred Lieberman or Ridge.
Lieberman would have helped with independent but not energized the base.
Ridge would have been identified with Bush, so a death sentence. Which is really to bad because he may have helped win Penn. which is one of the most important battle states.
Then you have all the people who lost the race. Just my personal opinion but as a rule I think they fail in the job as VP. What they said in the previous debates could be used to attack McCain ( ie. Biden condemning Obama for his lack of experience )
Palin has more pluses then minuses.
* Helps with his maverick image to independents.
* Helps solidify McCains support with the Repub base.
* Will help with the female vote
* Rated as one of the most popular governors in the US

Just look an see how much the Palin attacks have backfired, same as I thought they would.
The newest Rasmussen poll shows her only following Obama by 5 points about having enough experience to be president an she is only a VP. The same poll shows an unfair bias in the media regarding Palin which can only play in favor of McCain/Palin.
I think it says a lot when even the talking heads at MSNBC agree she did very well the other night. Even Chris Mathews said she hit it out of the park.
The 1st few days after the announcement as VP. everyone was saying it was a horrible pick.
Basically said it ensured McCain losing, game over. How quickly things can change.
Average of the popular 1 day polls shows 67% found her speech excellent, about the same percentage says they opinion of her improved.
Regardless of if they win or not, I guarantee you will be seeing a lot more of her over the next few years.



Shred:
If you think she was too sarcastic, I wonder what you thought of Biden's speech.
Plus that's kind of the job of VP, that way it allows the Pres to sit back an look/act more presidential an above the partisan bickering.



A question for anyone who watched the RNC tonight.
I never knew anything about Cindy McCain except for her family history regarding the Bud Distillery. Before tonight I never gave a 2nd thought to the popular view of her being a rich out of touch elitist. I was very impressed by the personal service she has been involved in over the course of her life. Huge difference between reality an the way she has been portrayed. Anyone with that kind of money can write a check, someone actually getting their hands dirty has my respect.
So I'm curious, was anyone else surprised and or impressed by the history shown about Cindy McCain.


I think McCain did very good tonight when you consider he's not a natural orator like Obama but I don't think it will be enough. Which is to bad because as a presidential candidate, he's really grown on me. Unfortunately. I think he will lose by a few points unless Obama fails over the next few months. What bothers me the most isn't the fact he might lose but some of the attacks he has come under. I've got no problem with someone calling him out or not voting for him over disagreements on policy. I'm disgusted with some of the attacks on someone, who in my humble opinion has shown the truest example of civic duty and pride in country more than any other presidential candidate in my lifetime.

can i give you an opinion fron just a normal guy who isnt as political and cant call candidates in the future or really find the fun in reading about it.i go by word of mouth ,i listen to what people say and honestly ,although not all is his fault Bush has screwed Mccain to be president.im a younger guy ,well 38 so most my years have been with Reagan,then bush. i remember with the Bush vs Clinton race the amount of talk from just about every one about clinton although he wasnt my choice at the time.So clinton was ellected,then of course the economy got good ,which i know has nothing to do with the pres really , and he got re ellected. i thought that between Bush and Gore ,Gore totally had it,i mean i never saw so many people so active out there -like today! after 911 -it was a given Bush was back ,no competition. just the talk around my bar a night (lawyers,bartenders,cops,fireman etc...) made it obvious it was going to happen. Now i hear all saying Obama,very weird in my world because being the fact i find all politicians to lying pieces of shit just to save their own skin\job Mccain was always one i really liked.i think this will be the tightest race ever known to the U.S. i want to see the debate.

Mayor. What an achievement. I think the smallest Town that I have audited is about the size of Wasilla. Pretty basic. You simply need a small grasp of budgetary accounting (not real accounting), a grasp of how the Mil rate, assessment and valuation works. And the ability to put up with crap from the Citizens. Not brain surgery. Pretty sure Obama could handle it.

Maybe it was because I was tired, and this came at the end of a very long day, but I found McCain's speech to be one of the oddest moments in modern political history.

He argued that we need to drive out the folks in Washington who created our dire economic situation (this morning we learn that unemployment has leaped over 6% making it official, this is a Recession!), just don't lift the curtain to see that the very folks in the hall applauding him are the ones who have brought us the disastrous 8-years of the Bush presidency. "We were elected to change Washington, and we let Washington change us." And to think, his first choice was Lieberman! Unbelievable!

I saw some polling results today that perhaps illustrates our disconnect in reacting to Palin. It backs up some of the focus group responses I've seen. Even though the polling sample is small, it backs my feelings as a life-long Independent - McCain-Palin just aren't cutting it.

The highly partisan seem to think she is the party's savior, but she leaves the rest underwhelmed. And yet, I couldn't get past the thought that someone like Palin should be the party's nominee, someone who hasn't been a member of the insider-club for 28 years, someone who hasn't filled out his campaign staff with the very lobbyists he claims to be fighting. There is a significant disconnect here. What is he really saying? "Help us drive us out of office!"

Peggy Noonan was right when she claimed that the Palin choice was political B.S., but in an odd way, perhaps this country needed some B.S. to get itself over the B.S. we endure on a daily basis from the folks in Washington. Is Palin a "change agent?" Hardly, just review her record. She contributed to excessive government spending as she pursued pork barrel projects - some of these were the very projects McCain had highlighted as being incredibly offensive.

The McCain of 2000 would have been believable would he have made this argument as the party's nominee that year.

Instead, his party, the very people standing in that auditorium last night, allowed Karl Rove and his ilk to engage in outright political assassination during the 2000 Republican primary in South Carolina. They claimed that Cindy was a drug addict. They claimed their daughter was a result of her having an affair with a black man. They claimed McCain had gone insane in Vietnam and now was unstable and could not handle the rigors of office. They flooded the state with push polling that made all of these accusations and more. The result was the true candidate of change in 2000 was soundly defeated.

John McCain doesn't like to lose, but he had his nose rubbed in it. So much so that he clearly saw the only path to success was to adopt the ways of the very forces who had handed him defeat.

Robert, I salute your brilliance at picking Palin when most folks had never heard her name. She is clearly a formidable candidate, but she is on a flawed ticket and, perhaps, she steps onto the national stage at the wrong time. It seems the B.S. has only gotten deeper.

So what happens when McCain kicks? We have a Hockey Mom for president? A woman who has rarely left the country, hasn’t even gone to Canada. A woman who, with all the resources of a governor can’t keep some guys junk out her child. A woman who wanted a Bridge to Nowhere (until the media got wind of it then bad bad bad!)

Oh well, the lobbyists she is paying can always get her another pork project. A woman who only knows Alaskan Politics and ziltch about Law.



She talks a lot and makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy. Reminds me of someone else.

I'm getting a lot of laughs from Obama supporters who over the last few months have cheered for the fact he was a Washington outsider. Now someone else arrives on the scene an suddenly they are too much of a Washington outsider.
Something that really worries me is if Obama win, he will have a blank check in congress as both the house and senate will still be controlled by the Dems. Even worse is his voting record shows he's completely partisan so what will he do when the likes of Pelosi or Reid send him a crappy bill. I don't think he'll have the stones to stand up to his party. I think it spells disaster when either the Legislative or Executive branch has a rubber stamp from the other, the Bush presidency is proof of that. It may help get him elected an be a feel good plan but income redistribution thru entitlements is NOT a viable growth plan.

When politicians rob (tax) Peter to pay (entitelments) Paul, they can always count on unwavering support from Paul!

This country is VERY close to that exacte scenerio... I don't remember the exact figures (and If I was not drinking i'd look them up), but I believe the bottom 40% pay no federal income tax at all. If the lliberals have their way and can push it up even higher they will never be out of power.

A great outcome for the 10% that will switch to the tax free side. Not so great for the rest.

Blitz, opposition to taxation is a wonderful topic. However, to keep things above board, we should really spend a little bit of time familiarizing ourselves with reality.

We could start with the most basic of research by a simple click to check out the basic Wiki page on income tax.

Here we see that the bottom bracket has to pay 10% on the income they earn. You are in that bottom bracket if you are single and earn $8,025 or less. If you find yourself in that bracket, God help you, but you still have to fork over ten percent of your income, and of course, you are still hit with payroll tax.

Obviously, this isn't the whole story, after the personal exemption and standard deduction, that 10% on income probably drops to about 4%, but scroll down the page and take a look at the history of income tax rates. You'd have to go back to the post-depression era of 1931 to find a time when the top bracket was taxed as little as it is taxed today.

Now click over to the wiki page that lists the various country's tax revenues as a percentage of their Gross Domestic Product. You'll have to scroll down to the bottom to find the U.S. is fourth from the bottom.

In the U.S., 45% of our federal budget comes directly from income tax, and only 14% from corporate income taxes.

Of course, one reason we have one of the lowest taxation rates of any industrialized country is because we are a country that is addicted to borrowing money from China and Japan. These two countries basically own our ass. Check out this chart which depicts the changes to our national debt since Reagan:


That chart comes from this page which has a number of interesting charts related to our government's spending.

All of this makes for a very complex picture, one that can't be summed up by saying we are robbing Peter to pay Paul. The reality is that we are borrowing, borrowing and borrowing our way into an ownership society in which we'll be the owned and China will be doing the owning...

Here is an interesting review from Newsweek concerning some of the Palin Rumors
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986
Another in depth and well documented look at some of the smears that have come out about Plain in the last 2 weeks
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/separating-pa...-palin-fiction/

I still stand by my earlier opinion this will hurt Obama. Something I find incredibly interesting is how well McCain has done over the last 2 weeks. Obama has faltered an went off his earlier positive message, which is were he was winning. McCain on the other had completely side stepped the Dems attack by picking Palin an transforming his message, he's now using the "Change" platform an running like an independent not as part of the incumbent party, very smart on his part.

Something I still don't understand, the Dems lost in 2004 when Kerry ran on "I'm not Bush". The whole McSame and 4 more years of the last 8 is not much more than a new an improved version of "I'm not Bush".
If it was ineffective in 2004, I don't know why they think it will work better now.

Lots of people think Biden will hurt Palin during the VP Debates. I think it will be pretty even.
She will have an easy counter for anything he might bring up. I'm curious to see if Biden will actually try an make it a VP vs VP debate as many people are predicting. Normally they would focus more on the Presidential nominee an platform. If Biden goes in looking to make it about Palin, she'll score big points as she goes after Obama while he goes after her. Just look at how much ridicule Obama has gotten over the last few days talking about her in stead of McCain. That fact alone shows they now realize Palin is more of a threat then they 1st thought.

McCain's up right now in the National polls due to convention bounce, I sure he will drop back to underdog over the next month. Historically it would be in his best interest to go into the final stretch down slightly in the polls. R tend to vote regardless, while D's are known to turn out in force if their candidate is down.
While the national polls are great for presidential topic, the real meat is in the state polls since they will ultimately decide the electoral college. In several important battle ground states, McCain has improved more that can be accounted for by Convention bounce, more independent votes moving towards him.


Hamma is right about Tax and debt. while I'm sure we still disagree over the finer points.
All the tax cuts have done it put off the inevitable. Billions to bail out 2 mortgage companies and now the big 3 auto makers are wanting their own $50 billion bail out.








Member of the Obama Campaign, now serving pledge #49 with "hope"

Obama almost did what I said he needed to.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/cam...tml#cnnSTCVideo
Does that make anyone flash back to Hillary almost crying over how she loves America so much.
He had a golden opportunity to score big but he fumbled the ball.
Complaining about McCain taking something out of context an making it an issue, sorry but that comes from both parties. Then he weakens his point even more because as he said himself, the news was running with this story last night but then turns around an blames it on McCain.
He obviously came out prepared with those remarks but failed because he stopped short.
Pointed out how wrong McCain was even though he's done the same thing, though not as often.
Pointed out the problems facing American, says McCain doesn't have the answers but choked when he had a great opening to say "here I am with the answers to the problems facing America"
Lame.
Once again he falls short, where's the message?
Change?
Experience?
Hope?
Getting away from the established Washington politicians?



Other news that would spell problems for the Democrats if people were more informed.
For years a popular attack issue for Democrats has been the misleading belief that Republicans are in the pocket of corporate American. The truth is whoever is in control gets the most money as proven by this newest look at where Corp donations go
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/Ind...3220278d931535c
The other news, sadly most people won't hear about. The Council for Citizens Against Government Waste has just released their rankings for who's behind all the unneeded pork spending and earmarks.
They rate member on congress on a scale of 0 - 100, with 0 being bad and 100 being best.
The overall scores
Democrats 5
Republicans 60

Then if you break it down to individual members of congress the scores are
For 2007:
Mccain 100%
Obama 10%
Biden 0%
Obama is the candidate of change because his an Biden's scores are so bad they can only go up.
The CCAGW site
http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/PageServer...tings_AtaGlance
An individual congressional rankings
http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/DocServer/....pdf?docID=3242
Go down the list an read the votes to see which side the Dem were on, very different from the image the Dems try to portray.

"VOTE 1 Senate Vote 5: Ethics and Lobbying Overhaul –
Earmark Disclosure, S. 1. Sen. Durbin, D-Ill., motion to table
(kill) the DeMint, R-S.C., amendment to require the names of
earmark sponsors to be made public, mandate the disclosure of
earmark recipients, and expand the definition of an earmark to
include federal and non-federal projects. Motion rejected 46-51.
THE TAXPAYERS LOST."
A republican introduces an amendment to make earmarks and who supports them and who they benefit transparent to the public
Who shot it down? Sen. Durbin, D-Ill

Robert trumps on this one;
Impressive call on your part and I'm impressed my initial opinion on Palin has been laid waste.
Obama campaign massively screwing up the last two weeks;
Ever since they made a play to shift centrally by supporting the domestic phone spying policy Obama's shine has been significantly tarnished regarding radical new changes he promised to bring to Washington.
McCain's campaign has been tactically brilliant;
Palin the right wing option McCain was lacking on his team
-cute looking , accomplished mom, son going off to war, former pageant contestant [all american] , a shaker, an outspoken challenger, little mud in her background; popular cheerleader, inspirational by deeds, female vote appeal; she's right wing in beliefs, but apparently she's a more of a moderate leader in practise; someone who can't be attacked voraciously without the attacker getting pimp-slapped for it.

It remains to be seen how she'll do in one on one debates, but the way Biden has been very very lack luster so far, he might end up getting owned.
Obama is wallowing in quicksand.... he has all the ammo he needs to pound at McCain but astoundingly he keeps on personally going after Palin; why doesn't he just shut up and completely ignore her is beyond belief. It's a simple formula the Dems are missing -leave her alone and in-so-doing diminish her validity....
LOL Where's Clinton's promised backing of Obama! She's the one who engineered the "disenchanted female vote/blue-collar worker class vote" that the McCainnites are brilliantly manoevering their way - for now......

A couple of real doofus head scratchers by the Obama / Biden team of late has been two- 'here's more ammo for you McCain' statements;
Obama declaring the 'surge has been extraordinarily successful' -paraphrasing.
What's he thinking! Wow-did he ever get rightfully [literally] pounded for it-lol;
He should say instead; "Because of the Sunnis Awakening Councils movement turning against al quaeda+their insurgent allies in Anbar Province and allying with the US surge effort which was formerly floundering last year, events in Iraq of late have been extraordiraily successful"......

And then Biden saying Hillary would have been a better VP choice than him -TWICE!! holy geezus

The Dems need to take time out and restrategize.

All Very interesting though- anyway Obama the newbie still holding up well in general vs. McCain the old-timer veteran- that's still impressive.
Focus on Afghanistan/Economy Obama -the issues!!!
Remember at the start of the election Race Hillary and Repubs laughed at Obama when he stated he'd go after terrorist targets in Pakistan; Another Bush policy flip-flop Obama should pounce on;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26652785

-hey Robert i did call a close final race with McCain as the repub pick way back too -almost a year ago I believe -no time to check on that link........
Anyway, remember you asked how to solve the Iraq issue... it is definitely turning out to be the case that ONLY the Iraqis stepping up to the plate and their security forces taking the reins with confidence is the ONLY answer. McCain's 100 year policy is inconsequential and absurd. Obama should be harping on that and Bush with egg on his face. I laughed when he thought he'd twisted N.Korea into submission a few weeks ago; To me it was a big joke Korea and Iran ultimately want nuke weapons -it's a matter of time they get them secretly somehow. Now-yesterday we see by satellite pics that N.Korea has another missile site they've been secretly building during Bush's smug no-nuke disarmament 'negotiations' with them.

lolz, Hamma - I'm still predicting an outside event will tip it all the Dems way in the end....but at the mo' Dems are scrambling bigtime -for no reason but by their own devices imo.

Always happy to see a post from my favorite neighborhood hellfaire. One small point I would like to make.
"McCain an his 100 year plan" is one of the biggest misrepresentations put out by the Dems. Who by the way always claim only Republicans do it.

I think by the end of the wek you'll see Obama get back to doing what he does best.
Obama's Acceptance Speech
Obama : There Will be Bamboozling
J/K

haha-> Actually I'm just tauntingly sticking the boot in on that '100 year plan' jab [ie, being a dickhead ] -I'm sure he meant that comment for impression's sake only -that plus he'll only be in office one term if he becomes Prez.
He was more correct with his 2013 pullout plan he proposed in the summer.
I'm pretty sure most Dems are just teasing too on that point.
Realistically America will be in good shape in 2009, once the campaign's over I think level-headed leadership will prevail that's more or less acceptable to all citizens regardless of who wins. Only thing that concerns me is Palin as a VP in the international game/or if she needs to step in as Prez.... but I'll wait to see her in her debates on that to see what her intellectual/contemplative style is like.

ps.The way Obama has been fizzling the last month and acting like a punching bag, I think the statement of yours- re: "....Palin stealing someone's thunder..." should be "Palin thundering over Obama's drizzle"

I heard something the other day. Not sure if it's true but if so I find it funny. The murder rate in Chicago for the summer months is higher than the number of troop deaths in Iraq for the same time period. Perhaps it's time for a surge in Chicago. I'm too lazy to actually look for facts but I found that interesting if true.