Then I don't know what else to say.

Watch it through to the end.

CLICK HERE

wow intresting... so real is that what u have been up to all week (J/K)

I'll tell you the same thing my Dad told me. He has voted Republican in every election since he turned 18. He is voting Democrat this year.

"I will vote for a hero over a coward every day of the week." Incidentally, my father lied about his age to enlist in the Marine Corps and volunteer for 3 tours in Vietnam.

"A coward dies a thousand deaths, a brave man dies but once."

Cypher

A coward also doesn't flip flop like a dying fish.

No, a coward does nothing....

for me personally, I'm not democrat or republican. I think they are crooks and thieves. The four years before bush I was doing alright and the four years with bush have been some of the worst(If not THE worst) of my life.

kerry is an ass

This video is nothing but a stale old attack from the Bush-Cheney campaign, who can’t for the life of them find anything positive to say.

It comes from the same President that told us Saddam Hussein was tied to al Qaeda, that we’d be welcomed as liberators in Iraq, and that we wouldn’t be bearing the costs and casualties alone.

Need any more reminders of why this administration’s lost its credibility?

This wont be hard for me Im voting for Bush. This flip flop BS is for the birds, and Kerry knows it. Bush did one thing that the Democrats want you to forget. He did a fantastic job after 911 and seen to it that something was sone about it. Not just sweep it under the rug like so many of you already have. "have you forgotten'?

Zillah

9/11 can't be used as an excuse for everything that Bush has done wrong. It's disengenuous to those people that have truly suffered.

Every President has his challenges, Clinton had Somalia and Croatia, not to mention he had to recover from the recession that the first President Bush had plunged the country into.

It's not the challenges that define a person, it's the resolve.

check the sp..but i thin hillary "clintons wife" should be president

Real while it is true that the administration has had to put a lot of money into building up the security of the nation in light of 9/11, the billions of dollars that have been poured into or allocated for Iraq could have gone elsewhere. Like my SCHOOL! Instead of helping me Bush decided to help a 3rd world country on the other side of the world. His No Child Left Behind initiative and other education proposals are a joke and embarrassment. They only skirt around tougher issues facing the education system and I would know. I go to arguably the best high school in the state of Georgia and my mother is a teacher as well. Our two schools are in in poor shape, losing funding from both the federal and state levels, and are essentially inadequete for providing quality education. To tell you truth, this in itself would be enough for me not to vote for Bush. I didnt agree with Iraq long before we ever attacked but honestly I don't care anymore. I just hope that whoever takes over gets us out of Iraq and spends more money where it needs to really be spent.

I can sit here and type all day and tell you why karry Sux. But i won't and speaking of 9/11 why can't we use that as a excuse? Iraq habor bin laden and Suddam had it coming.
How many time are gonna let suddam to get away with weapon check? Telling inspector they don't have access and then move shit around then tell them they can inspect it's now. Bunch of crap and how were we gonna wait after 9/11 before we do anything? Till they blow another building? or kill someone you love? Gimme a break!!! Now they want to pin all this shit on bush that HIS cia didn't do shit. Do you how long they have been planing this shit? I bet you anything this shit was plan out when clinton was in office. That it for now.

Cya in the server


P.S.

BUSH FOR 2004

Here are some figures for you BJ:


Bush's 2005 budget represents a 49% increase for elementary and secondary education since 2001. Plus an additional:
$1 billion in Title I funding for disadvantaged students, for a total that represents a 52% increase since FY 2001.
$139 million for reading programs totaling four times the amount spent in 2001.
$1 billion for special education programs, for a 75% increase since 2001.

The problem with the education system is that we are the only country in the civilized world that has more administration personnel than teachers in the school system.

I can't think of any other industry where there are more management people than non-management.

I was in college when Clinton was President and he wanted his legacy to be as the "Education President". Very difficult to do with the limited control the federal government has over local education.

Real numbers like that don't mean anything. This money is great but the vast majority of it is misused. The public education system is severly overmanaged and disorganzied.

1.) My mom works at a school where 73% of the students who enroll are hispanic, from poor families who value education little and do very little if anything to help the school. If there were ever any disadvantaged kids, her students would be them. And yet since Bush has taken over very little if anything has improved and some problems have worsened.

2.) Real if you had any idea what these reading programs were then i doubt you would have posted that figure. For the past two years, in accordance with new federal and state education codes, we must have at least 40 minutes allocated for reading. DeKalb county has dubbed it's program READS. This program and others like it have become a running joke among teachers and students. If Bush really wanted to improve literacy and reading levels, he should have made more of an effort to help the states hire more teachers.

3.) Special Education programs are great but that is the same amount of money going to a very very small percentage of students compared to the number of disadvantaged students. I am not trying to sound like an insensitive prick with this particualr rebuttle (I actually work with two mentally handicapped kids during the year as a mentor and tutor, and also help organzie and staff DeKalb county's special olympics) but its a little disconcerting to me that Bush spent the same amount of money on two groups so disproportianal in numbers.

The use of numbers and statistics shows perfectly how misunderstood the problems with public education are by the general population. Cy you hit the nail right on the head with your last post.

In the 1,298 days since bush has taken office,

4 million have lost health insurance.

1.8 million jobs have been lost.

four million young people have dropped out of high school.

set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.

spent the U.S. surplus and effectively
bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.

broke more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.

Silver, I'll tell you what option I would have gone with...

Instead of sending the entire Military to Afghanistan, I would have sent a few highly trained CIA operatives with a ton of money to bribe everybody in sight until we knew where Osama Bin Ladin was. I would have then assasinated him and left his body in the open for all to see. It's a lot easier to hide a team of 8 than a force of 10,000.

That was not the first time we were attacked by a foreign hostile, remember the first attacks on the World Trade Center? Ramseh Youseff?

Wasnt the stock market horrendous at the end of the 1970's and into the 80's? I don't think the Great Depression was the only other major recession or depression.

I love these debates but I hope everyone keeps it in perspective.
You know the old saying about religion and politics.

With that said here are my 2 cents.
I firmly believe most people are clueless when it comes to politics and our government in general. The reason I say this is because everyone always focuses to much on the presidential elections and not near enough on congress.
Yes, the president is a powerful individual but the office comes with very limited legislative power.
Here are a few examples of what I'm talking about.
1) He's the commander and chief of the military but he can't declare war that is the lone ability of congress. He has the right under the "War Powers Act" to make limited use of the military without congressional approval but even then, he must gain congressional approval within 90 days after introducing troops into hostilities. Also along the same lines, it requires congress to fund any military action.
2) He can make foreign treaties, but again only with two-thirds consent of the Senate.
3) He can appoint ambassadors, Supreme Court justices, and federal judges but they most be affirmed by the senate.
4) He can recommend legislation to Congress but it's up to them to act on it.
5) Deliver a State of the Union address to Congress.
6) His only legislative tool is the ability to veto but that can be overridden with a two-thirds majority vote.

The economy has been a huge issue so far this election. If you heard Kerry's acceptance speech you would think we where on the road to soup lines like during the great depression.
There has been much talk about Bush ruining the great economy left to him by Clinton. Don't forget economic indicators lag several months behind, we now know the economy was going down BEFORE Bush took office. Now add to that the impact the 9-11 attacks had on the economy.
BTW, my personal opinion is the economy is cyclic in nature and one guy got to take credit for something he didn't do while the next guy gets blamed for something he didn't do. For those of you who disagree with me, please name one piece of legislation the president wrote that resulted in the great economy during the 90's. You may want to go back and reread the 1st paragraph, the president can't write legislation.


Some one mentioned schools, federal funding only make up around 3% of a schools budget. Please tell me why the federal government should have any say about local schools. I would much rather see school issues dealt with on a local and state level as these people are much available and influence by us versus people in D.C. For those why want to blame the federal government about your local schools I would have to ask when is the last time you went to a school board meeting. Or for that matter, do you even know who makes up your school board?

Hoods no disrespect but I think your post was somewhat pointless.
You can't show cause and effect.
For example, half of all people in car accidents ate french fries in the prior week. Does that mean it's the french fries fault?
Also when it comes to the budget, that’s completely in the hands of the congress.

I find it hilarious the democrats make little or no mention of Kerry's 20 year voting recode while in the senate.
They make no mention of it because they don't want to be put in the position of having to defend it.
A few examples.
Will Real John Kerry Please Stand Up?
Kerry's New 'Flip' Flap Over Anti-Abort Court
Backpedaling Kerry
Kerry Concedes 'We may yet find' WMDs Just Weeks After Saying Bush 'Misled' About Them
Kerry Flip-Flops on Missing WMDsHaving It Both Ways With John Kerry
The Lies, Hypocrisy, and Indifference of John Kerry
John Fake Kerry
Comprehensive List of Flip Flops
John Kerry's Waffles - If you don't like the Democratic nominee's views, just wait a week
John Kerry: The Chameleon Senator
A complete list of his flip flops. I normally don’t care for these types of websites where someone can say anything but this site backs everything up.


Cypher.
“I'll tell you the same thing my Dad told me. He has voted Republican in every election since he turned 18. He is voting Democrat this year. I will vote for a hero over a coward every day of the week." Incidentally, my father lied about his age to enlist in the Marine Corps and volunteer for 3 tours in Vietnam."
There is no comparison between what your father did and what Kerry did. If you think so, here are a few points you may not be aware of. Kerry only enlisted after his application for draft deferment was turned down. ( Draft Deferment was a common way of avoiding service.) Only then did he volunteer for service. He wanted combat experience on his record so he requested swift boat duty, which at the time was relatively safe combat duty as they only preformed coastal patrols, it wasn’t until later that they change to dangerous river patrol missions.
Much attention has been given to the fact he received 3 Purple Hearts.
Of course the details are sketchy because he refuses to release information about how and why he received them. Then again, why would he care seeing as how he through them away. Oh wait, he only through his ribbons away. Oh wait he did through his medals away. No those where not his medals but some elses.
Here is what we do know.
Lt. Cmdr. Grant Hibbard, Kerry's immediate superior, said he doubted Kerry deserved the first of the three Purple Hearts he was awarded during his four months in Vietnam.
"The briefing of some members of the crew the morning after revealed that they had not received enemy fire as originally stated by Kerry," Hibbard said. "And yet Lt.. Kerry informed me of a wound, he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s (grenade launcher). It was later reported to me that Lt. Kerry had fired an M-79 at some rocks along the shore."
When Kerry meet with his commanding officer to request a purple heart, Lt.Cmdr. Grant Hibbard refused because the wound wasn't received from enemy fire, which is the essential requirement for the award.
Hibbard's doubts are shared by Louis Letson, the physician who treated Kerry for his wound at the Cam Ranh Bay medical facility:
"I have a very clear memory of an incident which occurred while I was the Medical Officer at Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay.
John Kerry was the skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night.
The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy action.
Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.
That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.
What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.
I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.
The wound was covered with a Band-Aid."
Details of the next two purple hearts are sketchier, all we do know is out of 3 purple hearts, Kerry only lost 2 days of duty.
1st he tried to get out of duty by requesting Draft Deferment. He then invokes a little know rule to leave his tour of duty after less than 4 months after receiving 3 purple hearts, one of which was received under the most dubious of circumstances.
While on the subject of requesting reassignment away from combat after receiving 3 purple hearts. There where 2 other men in his crew who also received 3 purple hearts. Both of them stayed to finish their tour. Neither of the two men who also received 3 purple hearts every request them. Compare that to Kerry who not only request one and was turned down, then later re-filed his request to his commanding officer after being transferred.
Then while state side and still a member of the Navy Reserves he make his speech to the Senate Foreign Relations committee in 1971, which most military considered to be an act of sedition. This is where he told congress
"He had witnessed U.S. soldiers personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam."
Years later when asked about these war atrocities he witnessed, he then says he was only reporting about rumors he heard when he spoke before congress.

The democrats made Kerry's military career a large part of the recent DNC when one of the speakers was a member of Kerry's swift boat. The story that didn't come out during the DNC speech is the fact out of the 23 people who servered with Kerry, 19 are active in "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth", which consider Kerry unfit to be commander and chief.
In Kerry’s presidential campaign literature, there is a picture of him with his swift boat crew. Out of the 19 people in the picture , 2 are deceased, 4 don’t want to get involved and 11 requested the picture be removed and that he stop misrepresenting them as supporters. They issued this press release.
"We did not give permission for you to use a photo including our image, nor do we support you. ... We join our fellow Swiftees who believe that someone who heaped scorn and lies on his own unit for his personal political gain is not fit to be Commander in Chief."
Not what I would call high praise coming from the ones who served with him.

So there will be no mistake I’m not a registered Democrat or Republician.
I was hoping Wesley Clark would win the Democratic nomination.
For those who don’t know about Clark.
He graduated 1st in his class at West Point. He holds a master's degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from Oxford University where he studied as a Rhodes Scholar An Officer who has commanded at every level from Company to Division.
I’m still shaking my head in disbelief the Dems supported someone like Kerry over an individual like Clark.
Now that’s it’s between Kerry and Bush, there is no way I would even support Kerry. If for no other reason than Kerry is on record severl times saying "“I’d like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations.”
I'm absolutely against this ridiculous idea for many reasons, 1st of which is it's unconstitutional.

Druid in all seriousness, i have read books shorter than that and with less facts. no wonder u dont post allot, must take a week to type all that out. dear god man, that was 4 screens! your fingers hurt?

Clark is one of those guys that is just above politics. After doing what he has done for this country it would be a step down to take the kind of abuse that he would undoubtedly endure. Personally, I thought Gephart had a better shot.

Unfortunately, I cannot vote for Bush, I just can't support the deterioration of intellect in this country. Ignorance should not be rewarded.

Cypher

LOL Silver.
I wanted to add something so their will be no misunderstanding specifically in regards to the points directed at Cypher.
One of my all time favorite books is Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein.
For those of you who only know the movie, well it was a far cry from the important subject raised in the book.
The book was all about civic virtue, I've no doubt Heinlein would be disgusted by the movie.
For all of those like Cyphers Father who actively sought duty, the rest of us only live free because of their show of civic virtue.

BTW Druid, I made the argument in a Poly Sci class that nobody should ever care who the President is because of his lack of power. I made the argument that if a citizen wanted something done they needed to buy a Senator.

The lone point agreed on was the appointment of the Justices. How ironic is it that the appointed Justices chose the election results?

Druid I admit education was a bad example but was merely trying to point out the fact that there are serious issues at home that could be addressed with the money being spent in Iraq. I do, btw, keep up with Board decisions in my county.

The things I mentioned happened under bushs' watch and/or by his REPUBLICAN senate and congress.

Don't worry everbody "Help is on the way" lol

Come January we all know who is going to be elected.

LOL

BlackJak education is only one of many failures when it comes to federal involvement. I firmly believe most issues would be better dealt with on a local or state level and the rest should be privatized.
For example in 1950 income taxes only made up 2% of a middle incomes family budget. Now in 2000 it's over 25%, Instead of tending to the basics, government has grown into a bloated conglomerate of political services that gets larger every year with no end in sight. The federal government doesn't exist to take care of you and me from cradle to grave.


Cypher
Instead of sending the entire Military to Afghanistan, I would have sent a few highly trained CIA operatives with a ton of money to bribe everybody in sight until we knew where Osama Bin Ladin was. I would have then assasinated him and left his body in the open for all to see. It's a lot easier to hide a team of 8 than a force of 10,000.
I would fully support something along the lines of what Israel did for the people involved in the Munich Olympic Massacre.
For those who are unfamiliar with the details, a team of ex-military was formed to hunt down assassinate those responsible for the killing of 11 members of the Israeli wrestling team at the 72 Olympics.
The Squad was best known for having fake obituaries printed in local papers as a way to tell a person they were next on the list. Several times it actually helped locate the individual because friends and family who read the fake obituaries would try and contact the people in hiding and give the people in hiding away.

Druid I completely agree with you. Unfortuantely for all of us our state and local governments are so full of bullshit as well in many cases that it's just so tough to get what needs to be done, done. I have become severly disillusioned about the effectiveness of our government and I am not even of voting age.

There is an incredible book out called " Big Russ and Me: Father and Son--Lessons of Life" Written be Tim Russert who is the moderator of Meet the Press.
One chapter in the book is devoted to his fathers wartime service.
Numerous time while growing up Tim asked his father about the war and how he received the terrible burn scar covering his back. His father always brushed off the questions saying the scare was nothing and he only did his duty. When Tim was writing the book he contacted several people who severed with his father and found out his father had almost died in a plane crash and several people credited him with saying their lives.

Just some quick asinine notes on the already astoundingly well thought out rhetoric by a few. Druid, u fucking rock, case closed, and one other point. Cypher, u once brought up children being their parents legacy. Would u honestly bone chelsea over those twins????? My God Man, u sir disgust me.

Maybe when u get older you'll realize what women r for cypher.

LOL! Maybe when you grow up you will realize what this thread was for.

I love new people in the forums.

Cypher

women r for shagging...plain and simple

the only thing a woman is good for is to wet the meat, better then beating the meat. or for the new guys it better then packing the fudge huh!