First off let me thank you guys for enjoying and playing the crap out of 'Barbarossa'. I've stopped by the servers a few times and I know quite a few of our After-Hourz regulars slut their way over here now and then. One comment I have though is on the tanks. Running them at stock reload times really really diminishes the effectiveness of the BT7 and overpowers the KV1. We run slightly modded times at AHz that gives the BT a faster reload rate of about 35% or so over the Panzers. Slowing down the KV makes it more important to have some support infantry or BTs with it. And overall it adds a new angle on gameplay.

Anyway. I really like this article. Very well done. Lots of great observations and smart, well thought out points. Don't find that so much on forums! haha I wanted to take a few minutes to introduce the followup NOT SEQUEL map to 'Barb'. The new one will be similar in feel, but play differently for sure. I am just getting internal Alpha testing started and hope to have a public beta1 in less than 10 days. Only BAS, CNQ and CTF will be featured at in the first beta. You will have to deal with a lot more open space and far less effective pak guns for bombardment. I know that will annoy half the crowd, but... well, here is a copy/paste of the latest info...

================

As we approach internal testing time, I thought it was time to get some in-game map images up so that you can have a perspective of the map.

**NOTE** There are a LOT of tree and bush models, but I chose to leave them turned 'off' for these pics. There is much more cover than appears here and more on the way as I mod the map...what you see now may be different in four hours!

The first one is looking NE from the southwest corner of the map. The main German spawn region for Base and CNQ is in the lower-left part of the map around the farm buildings. Going toward the right you find five small houses and a stone bridge over a modest size stream (CNQ objective). Just up in the picture is a trench works with a concrete AT bunker and 45mm gun. Beyond this section you see the larger village with several small fields around it and a dominating church with tower. Further right over the next stream is a steep ridge with the pillaged 'Barb' trench system. Behind this a thick forest sloping down toward the rail depot and another sizable village and fields.




The second image is a top-down look at the entire map. This image will be included in the testing files. Note the map key at the upper right.

We ran a 24+ player test on Jan. 19. Went very well and found only a couple of minor clipping issues. Gathered input and patched it up to that point. Going to run another test tonight (20th). I hope to get a public beta out within a few days. My original plan was for this weekend, but it is derailed a bit due to 'life' issues. Things get in the way.

When I do release, it may be a staggered one. Meaning that I will post on a few sites, including this one, and then over the next day or two get a major DL site up and more widespread PR. I haven't pimped this one like I did 'Barb', but that was a whole new thing at the time. No movies, no new vehicles, none of the fun stuff.

Soon. Very soon.

What you don't see, Bob, is that there is an improved trench line and AT position now looking down onto the swamp... German base #1 has been moved further West, down the hill toward the stream. It will not be able to be shelled from any Russian AT positions. Also, I recently closed the gap heading east on that side. As you come off the hill toward the swamp, that gap is now a solid tree wall effectively making the swamp route a solid flank..ofcourse there is now a trench line and AT gun up there to make it tough going. From the trench there are two entries that merge underground and empty out in the shadow of a large house just west of Russian #1. So, infantry can use vehicles right up to the trench line, then by foot to clear the tunnels and assault R1 from cover. Our last test came down to G2 vs R1. We won by about 4 seconds on the bomb when G2 blew... that was a 39 minute scrim.

It is shaping up. A couple days as now I have mostly the media stuff to package and get ready to release with the map.

Standard Barbarossa vehicles. This is set about two weeks after the first 'Barb' map, mid-July 1941. I am a stickler for authenticity...the use of rockets annoys me, actually, but you need them

The entire map is open in the three gametypes (BAS, CTF, CNQ). I did my best to position the bases roughly the same distance from the team and enemy spawns like 'Barb'. They are close. A couple were bumped around, mainly G1. The Germans overall, have a shorter run time in total from spawn to base, but the Russians have better defensive positions to cover the #1 and 2. The Russian #3 is pretty much fodder, due to poor map design, but can still hold out if defended well. The fight usually comes down to the #1s and 2s as the #3s are both far out on the north side and easier to do in.

No possibility of an intro of anti-tank rifles weapons?

Nope. No ATR. We don't want to introduce more weapons or vehicles and compromise gamestate nor discourage borderline admins to add another download for a map. That and the techinical challenges of getting the ATR to work properly. Trust me, we spent a LOT of time on it.

At the moment the Russians have the most secure base locations. German #2 and #3 can both be shelled long range by tanks. The strategy would be getting KVs in position to lob the shells downrange. German #1 is pretty secure and takes either a long-angle shot across the map or a closeup shelling. I think having the arty neutered in this role is for the best. It forces more armor/infantry coordination to open the bases. Depending on your server set up, the time varies. At AHz we can crack a base with 7 KV shots. But we also have an 8 second reload time. Spawns are still vulnerable from paks though.

I can imagine [maybe not] all the intense labour you put into your masterpieces... I was just wondering about the ATR's considering all the magic you and the mates drum up with new creations all the time .
ps. I love Flipsen's Slovak beta map.

January 25, 2006

Map by: Mark "Slyk" Dittman
Scripting: Innocent Bystander
Models and Skins: Lex and Postman 778

After-Hourz.com Development Team presents: "Barbarossa II-Smolensk".

The Blitzkrieg continues! Guderian's Panzer and Infantry divisions continue their eastward drive in mid-July, 1941. After the stunning successes of the early weeks of 'Operation Barbarossa', the Wehrmacht is beginning to feel the effects of constant combat. Losses are mounting and calls for replacements are beginning to be heard from foot and mechanized units. Panzer Group 2 now sets it's sights on encircling hundreds of thousands of Russian troops in and around the city of Smolensk. The men and machines of the 10th Panzer and SS Reich Divisions
push forward south of Smolensk, driving to capture vital road and rail links coming south from the city. As these units move ever deeper inside Russian territory, resistance and local counter attacks grow. Select your role in part of history being remade.

Join now in part two of the single greatest adventure in 'Call of Duty' Multiplayer, take part in 'Barbarossa II - Smolensk'! Featuring the vehicles and stationary weapons of 2005's 'Barbarossa', 'Smolensk' depicts the onslaught of the
German Panzer and Infantry men of Panzer Group 2 as they surge toward encircling the city of Smolensk. Public Beta 1 offers you the chance to play the latest and perhaps best CONQUEST gametype map. CONQUEST sees both teams
fighting to maintain control of vital defensive and observation locations thoughout varied and challenging terrain, villages and farms. All the unique custom vehicles from After-Hourz play a major role in all gametypes and offer new challenges. Conquest, Base Assault, and Capture the Flag are featured gametypes.

What are you waiting for? The Blitzkrieg has only begun! More than a map, this, is a Battlefield!
==========
To download 'Smolensk', visit After-Hourz.com / Smolensk
This map requires the After-Hourz Vehicle Pack which is INCLUDED in this package with the 'Barbarossa-Berezina' file: Barbarossa Vehicles & Map
For vehicle information and details, see here: AHz Vehicles Information

First impressions...

map is outstanding! looks put together better...
tunnels, etc...
I really like this map

suggestions...

near the cement MG bunker... the hills are slow going... grading them will improve the jeep speed and make it a more smooth map. flatting it out a bit would be cool... kinda like barb so it isnt such a blind...

trees... near the lone russian base the trees tower over and there is limited sight, making it no as appealing, and gives me the feeling of driving a tank in a house...

bottle necks near the same base, widen them a bit so you can get your hull FWD to fight the enemy and not get tagged on ur side... as you pull through...

lesson the trees at the rear of the map so you can use the village...

last but not least...

your map is beatiful and really LARGE, truly a great map, the towns and set ups are outstanding but why not move a base like (the russian middle one) to the rear to make it a bit more fluid... I can tag the last 2 bases easy from the bottle neck area moving the middle one back would be alot better...

complements...

the puddles are great...

map layout is great...

improved wheat field@!!!

more jeeps!!!

last...

better sniping spots!!! (2 many perhaps???)

questions....

spawns areas should be contained (at least I didnt see any... I owned 1v2 on ur server) It makes a good game to spawnkill easy like barb...

no mortors???

maybe more gun emplacements on the 2 sides... like the tank protection were you can stuff a tank and fire from it... neat Idea...

anyways I want to say thanks for Barb... I hope when ur finished this map will be as fun to play as barb.

MAP IS AWESOME! good job and thankyou-always need a little something new!



cant wait to play with alot of people in it.only played 2on 2.

I agree

Silver, Thanks for the input. Quick answers for you:

- Terrain could be improved in some areas to ease the angles. I'll look into it. In some places it can't, really, I need to use lower density terrain to keep FPS up and not hit the max_index or mesh errors, which this map does if I add anything more...

- BAS mode, I tried to place the bases in relative terms of distanc/run-time as they are in Barb... X amount from team spawn and enemy spawn. They are relatively close. As in Barbarossa though, once you reach a certain point on the map, you are going to be able to hit multiple targets due to the guns and sky box walls that allow shells to pass through. Technical issue that can't be overcome and maintain a realistic feel. But I understand your point. As for R2, there isn't really a good spot to put it.

- As always, I make the map and then I figure out how to fit stuff into it. Maybe not the best method, but I like the random feel to it.

Please keep input coming. I think the play experience of a full-server will be totally different than even 8v8. Our largest test was nearly 30 total and it was mayhem in BAS and bloody hard fighting in CNQ.

I really appreciate the work you have done for Barb and now Barb 2. we played the shit out of barb and I would love to see another great map that will keep the UO running strong. I love your maps, but please dont waste the back half of barb2 it look awesome! believe me I didnt mean to sound like I dont appreciate it, or I dont think Its a good map... but it has to be compared to Barb... which is better then any other map out... ussally custom maps suck, barb stands alone on a platform all its own, so I have high expectations of this map... (do you guys play, or just make maps?) oh and is FKR a division of you people?

1. FKR are just like you guys, UO/Barb fanatics. We have a pretty good relationship with them though.

2. No offense taken with your comments. Like I said, my biggest problem is that I get a 'starting' concept of a portion of a map. With Barb it was the main village. With Smo it was the start...the farm and stone bridge area. Then I just put it together from there. I describe my mapping as 'mapping by chaos' or more like making a quilt... you have a bunch of nice pieces and you find a way to stitch them together.

I really wish I had put the rail depot and it's village up just east of the church area, then the big trench system after that with the forest at the end. But, I didn't. And to move all of that now would be monumental to say the least. I think it would be a better map for it... the looks would be awesome and the combat would be crazy in a village that size. Technically though, FPS are already choking on the large area in view, and moving sections would double that.

The end of 'Barb' never got much play in CNQ and never in CTF or BAS, so I wanted to bring that portion in here, atleast to be seen some more. Who knows, I may copy/paste the crap out of this map too for another one.... IF I do that. I have two more sizeable maps in some level of development already.

Looks incredible.

I'll give it a go later tonite!

I drive our mapping guy crazy... I have been looking for a horror map... dead bodies in a massicare trunch, blood all, over people hanging from the doors and on trees( suicide style)... blood running down the walls like psycho stuff.. but neways... are their no mortors on this map? (noticing the pumping for info )
Great job I may add

** PLEASE DOWNLOAD AGAIN, AFTER 1:00 PM JANUARY 26TH **
A SCRIPT ERROR WAS FIXED.

mortors on this map?



yes ,i shot one last night! there are mortars!

Is it up and running on the Server yet????

You can always visit the "home" of battlefields for our flavor of our own maps....hint hint... hahaha... seriously! Give us a go once and check out the reload times and such. That's all the pimping I will do. I really appreciate MOB for being such diehards. Please feel free to leave feedback in this thread but I would prefer it at AHz in the announement thread to keep everything together. Either way, anxious for feedback as I would like to 'final' this one in 7-10 days.

wanna scrim?

I got the "hunkmegs" error when I tried to connect with 19 players. Changing my com_hunkmegs to 256 fixed the issue (or maybe it's simply because there are only 8 players online now).

First impressions (in spectator mode);

- Man this map is huge!

- There are a lot of spots where more bushes / trees would be welcome. Some parts of the map have abundant foliage, other parts are extremely sparse. Best I can do right now is give locs:

a) -11694 -6290 318 - this is a great little passage. The wider passage away from the T intersection could use another bush (and it's a bit open farther that direction). But a good example of providing enough bushes / trees to obscure sight lines and allow for steallthy movement.

b) -20034 -7098 962 - Another beautiful hillside with lots of trees / bushes. It's gonna be a pain to defend against just about any assault.

c) -8711 -14289 441 (near the russian church?) - There's the end of a ridge that falls down to a river with a fence. It feels like there needs to be a bit of cover here so that infantry can bypass the tunnels / sneak along the riverbed.

d) -23762 -9746 657 (sorta W of G #3) - A hill top passsage between the river and the field that could use some cover (and more in the surrounding area). IMO, shallow trenches like that are a deathtrap without some brush cover.

e) -27354 -14630 589 (german tank park) - Probably wouldn't hurt to have a tree or two at corners of buildings, mostly to obscure sight lines of any snipers that want to snipe into that tank park from the surrounding hills.

f) -20778 -19961 779 (G1) - There's almost no ground cover for infantry to hide behind / under if they would need to defend this base. Although I suspect a lot of folks will end up hiding up the hill in the foliage around the pond.

Wouldn't hurt to gussy up a lot of defensive spots with more sandbags / hay bales. Especially at the shallow trenche liness or around stationary guns. There's a lot of spots that look suitable for defensive troops to setup shop at, but it's just a bare hill.

I also see that tanks foul easily on the shallow trenches (the set with the pillbox in the middle). Sandbags / hay bales / scraps of wood might be needed to keep tanks from attempting to drive over that set of trenches.

Any fences that are longer then 4 tanks lengths should probably be broken up. Either so that infantry can jump them or so tanks / jeeps can go through them. There are a few fences in and and around the town that are exceptionally long and block what looks like it would be normal flow.

After a bit of play...

- Jeep respawns should definitely be as short as possible. I don't know if the AHz forums are setup to auto-destroy jeeps that are out-of-place like they are on the MOB forums, but on a big map, jeeps are critical for getting around. If/when MOB sets up a Smolensk server, it's something to keep in mind.

(On the server I used to help admin, we'd bump the respawn times for tanks up to a minute or two but we'd always leave jeep respawn at the minimum possible.)

- Darn huge map... did I mention that it's a large map?

- Spawning near Russian #3 is a pain. You're boxed in a bit and there's not much in the way of vehicles. Russian #1 avoids that problem because you can flee into the houses / tunnels. Maybe a trench line / trees / bushes / hay bales at the top of the hill between R3 and G3. Something for the russians to rally to when trying to defend R3.

- German 3 is an interesting spot. Maybe a little thick on the bushes The terrain up there could use more up/down dips (i.e. "tank scrapes"). Hopefully enough little dips and bumps that you can positiion 4 tanks up there in hull-down positions.

- Some discoloration on ground where map walls have moved. One spot is near the swamp the other is between G3 and the german spawn (on the spawn side of a hill by the field).

- Some of the long, straight map walls (i.e. near the swamp and other spots) could stand to be broken up, either with terrain, rocks, or simply some artistic tree placement at varying distances from the walls. Basically to make it not so obvious that it's a straight wall of trees.

- There's a window in one of the german spawn buildings (I think the one with the halftrack) that overlooks the map edge. Bit silly as nobody can ever walk back there behind that part of the building. (Or not... it's an artisitic choice.)

(some of these comments are from memory)

- The pillowbox pak cannon can hit 2 of the 3 german bases. Maybe the G3 base needs to be moved to the lee side of the slope away from the pak. I'm not sure about G2, but it could probably be shifted back a bit towards the field to get out of view of that pak.

- The pillowbox pak is going to be a nasty piece of hardware. Especially once you add some hay bales / logs / ground cover to that trench system. I think the germans are going to spend a lot of blood keeping that gun suppressed.

- Most ridge lines should probably have at least some sort of trees / bushes to obscure the sight lines. Basically infantry should be able to cross the ridge on one side or the other without being silhouetted. It wouldn't have to straddle the entire ridge line, just one end or the other of a particular opening.

- Even better if you can tweak the mesh slightly on ridges to give hull-down positions for tanks in places. (The slope at the north pass by Russian #1 on the Barbarossa map is a good example, as is the german egress by the german middle pak gun on the Barbarossa map. Nothing steep, just enough of a rise/fall that you can peek over and fire downrange.)

- The russian trench system near the russian spawn hill where the KV1 spawns. If you slip the KV1 into one of the other tank positions, there are some positions where you can't get the tank out of. The ground in those positions needs to be raised a few units so it's the same depth as the main tank position. That way if you decide to put a tank in those spots you can get the tank back out.

- The russian pak gun near the swamp, there's an odd texture on the wall (too dark).

- The bullrushes are great. I think that flank is going to be a prime infantry sneaking spot with enough ground cover and trees.

- What happens if all the russians take one step back (spawning in the rail yard) and all the russian bases also take one step back? R3 could end up in the field near the town. R2 could move to the hill where the russians currently spawn. R1 could stay just about where it is.

- Bit difficult at times to find satches / anti-tank weaponry. In one of the tunnel systems (maybe the one at the russian spawn? or maybe at R1?) I got an icon but couldn't see the anti-tank ammo box.

I am gonna be here ALL day, Bob.... Thanks for stopping by AHz. We had just finished up testing Dreck's new map when we started rolling back in. I'll address your points one at a time because I think they are all valid comments, which I appreciate.

I will double-check, but there are a lot around. A couple satchels are problematic though and I dont' know why. I will see about adding more.

Ok. Fine. I'm wrong. Very wrong. Delusional. Below are three scary images. The first, the 'Barbarossa' sky box with dimensions. The second, 'Smolensk'. The third an overlay of 'Barbarrosa' terrain into Smolensk. All images are roughly the same dimensions. The 'Barb' terrain I think should cover a bit more but it is more than evident that 'Smo' is far wider and contains much more ground...but yet I don't think it plays that big...maybe that is just me.







Ridicule at will.

please dont think that...

actually I like the larger area for barb2, on barb people know the map so well and so many people are on that it just seems like it should be largeer so their is more angles of attack...

I like the four paths of barb, but barb 2 gives more flanking options... wasted space is also flanking space

WOW, What a great map.

Was on last night playing with Scrappy....had to take the 6 so I could find my way around. Lots of little sneaky spots to snipe and hide while waiting to get into the bases. There was only about 15 people on, I was so tired after running all those miles.

Is there a possibility of adding more jeeps near the starting spawn? Since only 3 can fit in one, alot of guys have to run towards the next area. (What a work out, almost spilled my beer)..LOL

A poppy field would be nice for the chicks...(just kidding).

Spent a large time looking for sachels...guess I just have to find the hiding spots.

Today I went on for awhile, just to get used to the buildings and area....yea some surveillance...I love the tunnels, great and quick access.

Thanks for making a great map!!!!:)

yup awesome map

Satchels are around. I'm not a fan of something in every building or every floor. Never have been. But there should be plenty once your figure out their locations...and most every building does have something.

Can't add more jeeps really without taking them from somewhere else. As I noted earlier, there are only so many to go around as they are used in other gametypes...if anything, I would have to pull Russian jeeps from the big village...there are a pair on the western half but then in CNQ guys will be screwed spawning in that area. Tough balance on a big map that feature three big gametypes in CNQ, CTF and BAS.

I've found a couple satchel's here & there on accident, Not sure if I could find 'em again LOL panzerchrecks & bazooka's seem plentiful enough, though

*edit*

I did notice that alot of buildings were empty, on the German side (tank spawn area) Are locations of explosives the same for each gametype? In one of the tunnels, I saw a panzerchreck without the box. Left side of the map near a base..(1?)..sorry couldn't be of more help explaining where it was. Will try to get SS tonight after work.

"It's big... mind numbingly draw droppingly big. So big that your team will rattle around like bits of gravel in a grunt's boot."

I'm simply amazed at how large you've managed to make a map without killing FPS. Some of the views are breathtaking.

Communication is going to be a must on a map like this. There's just no way for anyone to keep track of what is happening on the other flank (or heck, even for the middle of the map to protect both flanks). I'm going to need a bindkey to remind teammates to use v21 / v55 / v56 when they spot infantry / jeeps / armor.

I love the tunnels, definitely something that I wish Barbarossa had. Not many tunnels on the german side, but I'm guessing that's because they're the attackers (per historical accounts).

Main reason for thinking about the one step back to the trainyard (and moving a few russian bases back) is to make use of that wonderful trainyard area in BAS. Unless you're planning on doing like Barbarossa and section that area off during BAS play. Still not sure if it would work, my mental spatial map of Smolensk might be "off" and I didn't log back in to look harder at my proposal.

Saving more comments for whenever I see "beta2".

I like the big rear map areas and various maze of approach paths covered here and there, which all make for some exciting use of flying jeep navigation [and chases maybe] in flying around corners and disappearing. I see how your combined arms approach to this map is required, plenty of ambush spots for snipers and rocketeers, particularly if they are very good at long range and cunning enough to shoot attackers from behind their advance; such fire will swiftly halt a general advance as they try to scan from which multitude of covered spots they can be taking fire.
Tunnels are a great addition, reminding me of the fun I had on the AHz server with Town Assault map and on another map that was popular [some D-day campaicn? one-yanx vs,germs] also with a complex tunnel system.

good map Smolensk, nice rolling hills and good tanking. I wish they would have used T-34's but i see he is keeping it realistic. How about a Kursk map soon with tigers-panthers -T-34'(85mm) good map After Hourz-Slyk

CNQ is great on this map. I've never played CNQ before, but this was a blast. Things get really really nasty in the main town when the capture position passes through there.

CTF - the mortar in the german spawn (back by the stack of wood) is rather useless? Not enough range to hit the area around the flag or to provide any sort of coverage of the flag area. At best, it can dissuade someone from sneaking in the back.

The stone wall at the stone bridge could use just a tiny bit of lowering. It's usually possible to jump over it, but sometimes you have to catch it *just* right. Maybe nudge it down in a few more spots to make more obvious crossing points.

Railyard, found a few slatted fences that you can drive jeeps through (SE part of the railyard before you head down the S tracks). Around (3592 -13827 -131).

Now for the "out there" thoughts. Take these with a large grain of salt.

I'm thinking G3 should be shoved a bit to the NW, about 50-100 meters. That would keep the pillbox from hitting it and turn the existing G3 hill into a focal point for fighting (either a defensive position for germans or an offense position for russians). Being down closer to the river would make it more exposed which might be a good tradeoff for it being closer to the german side. It would also provide a touch of relief for R3 (if R3 stays there) as the germans would not spawn quite so close to R3.

The current G3 hill could also then start sporting some defensive positions looking both east and west. The pak gun by the existing G3 could move to (-20002 -5987 775), coverage from SSE to NE. That would counter the strong position of the pillbox gun. (I really like the pillbox gun and think it should have an extremely wide firing arc, as wide as possible.)

The pak position by G1. Remove the pak, make the position a little deeper and it's an almost perfect defensive position for a german tank to use. (A nice "tank scrape".) That frees up a model, but allows the germans to decide whether or not to put a tank in that position.

The mortar near the pillbox is okay, but I think it would do better up at (-16837, -17759, 653). That would allow it to face NW over the village, providing a reason to hold down that hilltop trench.

The 45mm at (-9909 -19154 492) doesn't have enough coverage. It currently faces almost due W but would be more useful if it faced NW. Coverage from WSW to almost due N would be great.

The passages around R3 (-11544 -6030 188) need to be a lot wider, 3-4 tanks wide (maybe more). I think this would be an ideal area for another "marshy" spot. Pools of water would provide some interest to this part of the north flank. Framerate in there seems to be very high due to the limited sightlines. (The north flank feels a bit "blah" at the moment, with only the R3 base tucked into that one corner.)

A few trees across the ridgetop at (-15798 -4010 633) leading through a moderately thick forest all the way down the hill to the existing R3 bunker location. Treeline ending at around (-13561 -3890 443). If the area around R3 was made deeper in the east direction, R3 could be moved another 50m to the east away from that treeline.

I sort of see R3 as being in low lying area, surrounded by pockets of water. Even if it's just a few puddles here and there. Germans would attack down the hill to the W through the tree cover but have about 50-100m of semi-open ground before they'd get to R3. Russians could either hold them off at the hilltop at the W end of the forest (but with the difficulty of taking fire from the G3 pak gun) or hang back closer to R3 in a defensive fortification.

Starting at (-9213 -5724 190) can we put a passage in that leads around to the backside of R3? Something narrow to connect up with the widened area around R3. That would give the russians a second approach to their R3 to bring in reinforcements rather then being funneled through that narrow passage that currently exists. (But if that passage were a lot wider, it wouldn't be as much of a deathtrap.)

The last part of the fence at (-8613 -10436 316) should be removed. It makes it too difficult to get on/off the bridge with a vehicle. In addition, the W slope of the road should be more gradual to allow vehicles to escape into the field there. Or for them to come up off the field and across the bridge without having to thread a needle.

If I were to move R2 to the east and make the russians spawn closer to the trainyard, I would put R2 at (-2925 -10393 508). In some ways this is a strong defensive position, but germans can flank around to the south, or come through the tunnels, or attack directly across the bridge to the west.

A passage from (-957 -14310 274) to (-115 -16123 193) would be good. It would provide a focal point for those two houses on the south flank passage.

Maybe move R1 back to (-1332 -18676 175). Flatten the R1 hill and put in a mortar position facing north at around (-6160 -18200 431).

Infantry should be provided more cover in the area around -7272 -8334 261. I'm thinking in terms of german infantry attempting to slip into the defensive positions east of town by sneaking over the raised road, dropping down into the stream and then sneaking up into the north half of the defensive positions. Maybe a wooden plank "bridge" across the water at that point that the germans/russians can use to cross while being hidden by some foliage (trees in the riverbed area). Might have to remove a few more pieces of fence on both sides of that dead-end roadway to allow infantry to slip over that spot.

That spot could become especially effective for infantry movement if there's a swamp area around (-9340 -6832 188) instead of the plain flat ground that exists there now. Maybe even a tunnel under the roadway at that spot, allowing infantry to sneak under the road and into the bushes / cover on the N side of the road.

Stationary gun positions. The russians have basically 4 spots. I'd leave all of these for all gametypes.

- The south gun that overlooks the swamp
- the pillbox gun
- 45mm in the defensive fortifications on the east side of town.
- 45mm in the N end of the railyard

German positions Same, leave them in for all gametypes.

- the G3 hill
- near the G2 base (-22196, -15641, 333), would need a good bunker design to withstand fire from the pillbox gun
- a 3rd one would go well at (-15282, -16642, 408), coverage from SE to N overlooking the SW corner of the town
- move the spawn pak NE and give it a wide view over the field

Mortar positions (if I was going to reposition all of them, I'd only use 6 on the map and leave them available for all gametypes).

- (-16837, -17759, 653) overlooking the stone bridge area
- (-23633, -9066, 442) facing NE with coverage to N and SE, basically move the trenches a bit to the NE to provide defense along the N flank
- (-14113 -10204 208) facing ESE with coverage of NNE to S
- (-7625, -13277, 188) facing W towards town, either inside the structure or on the E side of the structure.
- On the R1 hill (N of where R1 is)
- (3592 -13827 -131) with a cleaner view (and a woodpile or two for cover) to the SW.

There might be a few more positions for mortars, especially once defensive positions get put in in more locations. I don't feel that they're terribly useful when placed in the bases (and I'd like them to be available across more gametypes).

Tank scrape spots or defensive positions (spots for the L-shaped positions similar to the one WNW of German 1, or shallow depressions, or a mound of dirt, or 3 logs stacked on top of each other)

- (-15172 -8231 513), a tank position facing SE, overlooking the town
- (-16064 -7368 539) looking NW
- (-17570 -9584 312) exists, great design, looks NW
- (-15719 -3376 730) looking SW
- one by R3, looking west (wherever R3 ends up)
- (-18831 -3683 622) looking S
- (-21752 -4295 609) looking S
- (-25348 -7573 426) looking E
- (-24686, -12359, 205) exists, but needs some brush removed to give the tank gunner some visibility
- (-23398 -18835 442) exists, but too shallow, needs about another half meter of depth
- (-20946 -17540 314) possibly spot for looking NE
- (-18636 -20341 616) looking NE (basically an ambush spot) or could be used as infantry defensive hardpoint
- (-15394 -19439 462) looking E over the swamp
- (-16217 -13028 354) looking W and E, a simple wall would allow both sides to use this as a tank scrape
- (5056 -14416 -131) looking SW (woodpile, a broken wall, or stacked bunker logs)
- (4279 -9688 -131) looking WNW
- (-1119 -17106 188) looking W

That should provide a reasonable amount of cover for both sides if anyone wants to play defense. I tended to pick spots that provided a decent field of view, that wouldn't be in the way of "flow-schmoe" and are spots where it would make sense to defend / attack from.

(Apologies for the length... I think I got carried away.)

There are a couple T-34s around, depending on gametype. BAS gets one and CNQ gets two. With more, they would overpower the Germans with their better armor and speed...and the gun is a bit longer ranged.

IF there is another UO map, it will be either November-ish 1941 or October 1942........both are started





BOB.... just saw you posted before me.... nice points. I can use some of the ideas. As usual, cover along streams is awaiting proper models... I am trying some other stock ones now to see if they will or will not glow..a major issue with some of the grass models. I've adjusted some AT gun traverse numbers to limit swing onto bases. Moved some others around and am moving or deleting mortars. I see a beta2 as a growing necessity... sad but there may be some big enough changes that they need hard public play.

The area around R3 is a tough one to mod. I'm a bit undecided what to do there. It is possible for the Russians to win a BAS round with that as their last base. Tough, but possible. The team needs to focus on defense of #2. Time will tell. I have some ideas for that R3 area though without major modifications. Added cover, trenchworks, move the hedge rows back a bit etc. Right now I have MAJOR resource issues so adding any more mesh or even brushwork often crashes the compile. I'm trying other mapper tricks to lessen the load and free up resources.

And CNQ kicks butt. You all should try it more. I am starting to think this map is the best overall CNQ map I have done.

I do think the HTs are overpowered on CTF. At least, given where the russian flag is located. (Maybe the russian flag needs to move to a more easily defended spot, like the N end of the railyard.)

I'm not 100% sure where all the capture points are for CNQ:

- german spawn?
- stone bridge
- pillbox
- W end of village
- town church
- somewhere in the bloody trees on the hill
- russian spawn?

So the addition of a spot at the wooden bridge could be interesting (although difficult to capture). But also a logical spot, especially if the trench / moat was deeper / steeper / longer so that you'd have to go around a long ways to bring vehicles across.

I think the "somewhere in the blood trees on the hill" could be changed if there was some sort of ammo dump hidden among the trees on that hill. Then it would seem more like a worthwhile objective before the final push down into the railyard? Maybe a focal point at -690 -11467 368 near the 2 big white rocks.

CTF - The german flag position. The germans have a nasty habit of parking the half-tracks on the flag. Which means you have to steal the half track first, before you can swipe the flag. Probably both flag positions need adjustment so it's not possible to park a vehicle on top of them.

- Parking on flags....now a vehicle clip over the area...won't happen again. That crap, my team or not, pisses me off.
- 'house in the bloody trees' is that small busted house in the forest. May end up with more 'stuff' around it for cover in and out. Again, resources...
- CNQ: West Bunker, stone bridge, concrete AT bunker, west end of village, church, main trench works, house in forest, depot. Follow the stars and/or press 'Tab' for current objectives.

ok--i found the t-34's but my next question is about respawning for the bas mod.. The german assault gun was destroyed and never came back??

Looking at the pillbox area. I think the trench system could possibly be simplified / changed. As always, just one man's opinion, and some of these ideas are contrary to other ideas.

- The ditch leading from the tunnel to the back of the pillbox should be deeper.
- Eliminate any trenches to the W of the pillbox, make the pillbox more of the frontal point of that defensive area.
- Leave the slope in front of the pillbox so that you can sneak up underneath the opening.
- Move the stakes closer in from in front of the river to be more of a guard around the pillbox and trenches. That also helps with the vehicle issue.
- Have one trench end to guard / overlook the road (facing N-NW), possibly a spot to put a mortar facing NNW.
- The other trench end should open out to the SW towards the tank scrape

I think, in general, hand-dug trenches should alternate between shoulder height (deep) and being shallow enough to climb out of (knee deep). Makes it easier to climb out of them (and the exits are more apparent).

Some updated screenshots of changes (images are brightened)


Looking toward Russian 1:



Looking down the hill at German 1:



Looking up hill past German 1:



Approaching Russian 3 from the West:



Looking West just beyond Russian 3, German 3 to the upper left:


Other minor stuff done, like adding some more cover and minimal eye candy where I can that servers dual-purpose. New beta2 or final soon.

Looks like fun.

(I may come pester you on the ModsOnline forums... mucking around with mapping again. I *think* I know what I'm doing...)

fun map
played it a few times.. will there be a free for all or a TM DM sometime??

TDM would sort of suck. The map is large and I don't have the game_state to make script models to block off portions. I could dedicated some CNQ spawners in the central sections for straight TDM but then you'd still have the entire map to run around on... and besides, CNQ is far better than standard TDM...

Aye, DM/TDM on larger maps gets a little silly. I'd imagine that it would simply turn into a sniper-fest. The advantage of gameplay like CNQ is that it naturally draws everyone to the spots that are currently under contention.

Slyk released his beta2 of Smolensk today. I'm off to go looking for it.

(We may want to close this thread and start a new one.)

lol just for u....

had afew hours on the map today ( and WOW ) cant wait for the final version.Its goner be a bloody bath on BA .