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ScrapyardBob
Now that Smolensk (a.k.a. Barbarossa II) is out, we can start taking a more in-depth look at it. This is a larger map the original Barbarossa and effective gameplay is going to require communication and flexibility.

First off, a review of the terrain. Slyk has assigned "official" names to most locations using the in-game map graphic. I've provided some other alternative names that I've heard folks refer to these spots as.

A. German spawn (a.k.a. Collective Farm #36)

This is the very west end of the map. Similar to Barbarossa where the germans are in the west and the russians are in the east. There is a pak gun in the spawn with limited visibility.

B. Hill #54 (W of G1)

Holds a pak gun that overlooks G1 along the south flank. Might get referred to as the "G1 pak" or "H54".

C. German #1 base - South flank (between Hill #54 and Hill #49)

Nestled inbetween a few hills along the south flank. It's an easy trip from the german spawn along the south flank to reinforce this base. Also known as "G1" when typing chat in-game in order to keep things short and sweat.

D. Hill #49 (E of G1 / W of swamp)

Hill #49 is where the tank scrape has been built that overlooks the stone bridge / G2 / G1 areas. There is also a tunnel that leads between the two sides of the ridgeline. Could end up referred to as "south hill", but probably "H49" when typing for brevity.

E. Wheat field (E of german spawn)

The wheatfield is a picturesque section of terrain between the german spawn and G2. A destroyed tank and a small copse of trees provide cover for infantry attempting to move through the field.

F. German #2 base - Middle flank (near stone bridge)

Controls the middle of the german defensive line. (a.k.a "G2")

G. Stone bridge (E of G2)

Um, it's the low stone bridge over the middle river near German #2! A key defensive position to take and hold.

H. Pillbox trenches (a.k.a. the "AT bunker")

This is a white concrete pillbox that houses a 45mm gun (only in CNQ play) surrounded by an extensive network of trenches and barbed wire fencing. There is also a tunnel that leads back through the hillside allowing infantry to infiltrate the town.

I. North HIll #62 (a.k.a. G3 hilltop)

German #3 base is located here. There are multiple trenches, defensive positions and a pak gun that looks east towards R3. Will probably end up referred to as the "G3 hill". It might get referred to as "NH62" or "H62".

J. Stary Petrovka Village (a.k.a. "The Town" or "The Village")

Contains multiple houses, a church, the Russian #2 base (a.k.a. "R2") and a russian 45mm stationary gun. Combat here tends to be fierce and heavy as fighting goes house-to-house. Communication will probably refer to sectors ("N village", "S town", "E Stary", "Church", etc.).

K. Swamp (south flank)

A patch of water / bullrushes and a few trees along the south flank. There is a russian 45mm gun (a.k.a. "R1 45mm" or "swamp gun") that overlooks this area.

L. Swamp 45mm (a.k.a. "South AT Trench")

The gun that overlooks the swamp along the south flank. This weapon will probably be called the "widowmaker" because of all of the newbies who will slaughter themselves while attempting to use it. (It's extremely easy to kill yourself by shooting the post in front of you.)

This area may also be referred to as the "south trench" or "swamp trench" or "S trench" or "S gun".

M. Russian #3 (a.k.a. "R3")

This base lies in a sheltered vale along the north flank. Reinforcement of this base will be tricky for the russians due to the need to come through a narrow bottleneck.

N. East Trench (a.k.a. "the trench line")

The main defensive works to the east of the village. There is a moat-like river that runs in front of it and it guards the approaches to the russian spawn area.

O. Russian spawn (a.k.a. "Forest")

The "old house" objective for CNQ is in this area. Russians spawn on this heavily forested hilltop during BAS.

P. Gorshanov House (a.k.a. "R1")

A set of houses by the Russian #1 base along the south flank.

Q. Depot

A train depot that lies in the far eastern part of the map. This area does not get much play during a BAS game but is a major facet of CTF/CNQ play.

R. Collective Farm #42

The farm houses and fields to the east of the depot.


ScrapyardBob
Overview on defense of the bases:

German #1 (south flank)
This base is very tricky to shell from a distance. Russians need to advance to H49 or attack from the Stone Bridge area in order to shell this base. Germans should plan on taking and holding the H49 hilltop, the trenchline and the tunnel, and the wooded area around the water pump. They'll also want to control the stone bridge area. Two to three defenders will be able to hold off a lot of russians.

German #2 (middle, by stone bridge)
In some ways, this is going to be an easily defended base. OTOH, due to its exposed position it will be rapidly breached. Defensive forces stationed near the stone bridge and H49 can pull dual-duty and protection both G1 and G2. This is the most easily reinforced base of the bunch. The biggest issue will be infantry slipping over the stone wall at the bridge and sneaking in for the plant.

German #3 (north flank)
If properly defended, this will be a very difficult hilltop to take. However, it is somewhat isolated and all of the foliage makes it easy for infantry to slip into this area. The bunker at the very north end of the ridge contains anti-tank weaponry. This also qualifies as a very exposed bunker and will be easily breached.

The amount of foliage in the area will require more defenders in order to watch all approaches.

German Summary:
If the germans can hold the area around the stone bridge, H49 and the pillbox, they stand a strong chance of soundly defeating the russians. Or at least preventing the russians from successfully planting G1 or G2. The H49 hilltop is going to be key for holding the south flank.

I suspect that G3 will fall first in most games with G2 as a strong second.

Russian #1 (south flank)
If the russians can keep germans from coming through the tunnel, this will be an easily defended base. Defenders can do dual-duty between guarding R1 and R2.

Russian #2 (middle, in village by church)
This is going to be difficult to defend. Even worse then R3 on the Barbarossa map. Numerous approaches due to all of the buildings, plus vulnerable to flank attacks from the swamp or from R3. OTOH, the East Trench line allows a very large overwatch of the area with lots of sniping positions.

Russian #3 (north flank)
A very secluded base. Strong on defense, weak on reinforcement. If the germans manage to control the area around R3, the russians who are attempting to reinforce will have to run a gauntlet / bottleneck to get there.

Russian Summary:

R3 will probably always fall first. R1 and R2 are going to be close seconds.

German Defense:

a. One to three germans on the G3 hilltop. Their job is to keep russians from flanking around on the south and attacking G2's soft underbelly. Probably one sniper and 2+ MG/SMG (or a tank).

b. One or two in the pillbox trenches. They can serve as advance warning for russians slipping through the tunnel or any russian offensives leaving town.

c. One or two at the stone bridge. One on the pak gun, the others to hide in the houses by the stone bridge.

d. One to three germans on H49 (or in the trench or the wooded area). They'll be able to watch for russians in the stone bridge buildings or russians that attempt to infiltrate via the swamp route.

Russian Defense:

a. One or two russians near R3. This is not going to be an easy area to hold against multiple tanks and infantry. One of them should probably be a sniper to pick off germans on the G3 hilltop.

b. Two to three russians in the village. Maybe even more. One on the 45mm near R2, one in the church tower, and multiple floaters to keep the houses clear and attack any tanks.

c. One or two russians near R1 or in the south trench (overlooking the swamp). Their biggest problem will be armor via the swamp approach or keeping german infantry from slipping through the tunnel and attacking R1.

d. One or two russians in the East Trench. Most likely a sniper plus a tank.
FeezyWeezy
I wonder; do you ever do anything else besides barbarossa... you ever sleep? Because this is one bunch of usefull information...serious biggrin.gif nice job

ScrapyardBob
Sleep? What's that? (I'm probably mildly OCD...)

From my initial experimentations with the pak/45mm stationary guns. Most bases are vulnerable to long-range shelling. Some, more then others.

G1 pak
- can hit R1
- can hit the swamp 45mm
- can barely hit R2 (tough shot)
- can hit the R2 45mm

G2 pak
- can hit R1
- can probably hit the swamp 45mm
- can barely hit R2 (splash damage only)
- can hit the R2 45mm (I think)

G3 pak
- easy shot at R2
- able to hit R3 (moderately difficult)

Swamp 45mm
- can hit G2
- might be able to hit G2 pak
- might be able to hit G1 pak

R2 45mm
- easy shot at G2 (aim just above the church roofline)
- can hit G3 once R2 is breached
- can probably hit G1 & G3 paks

As I said before. German #1 is the most resistant to long-range fire due to its sheltered location. But it's vulnerable due to being on the south flank. Russian #3 is also tricky to shell from a distance, but it's out on a flank where the germans have the advantage. Russian #2 is moderately difficult to hit due to being sheltered by the church, but it's easy enough to shell this base from either flank.

Manning a russian 45mm is going to be a high casualty career choice. The swamp 45mm is surrounded by logs and has a trench wall directly behind the 45mm. This will make it extremely easy to use splash damage from shells to kill the gunner at the swamp 45mm. (Not to mention the issue where the swamp gunner is likely to kill themselves.) The R2 45mm is a bit more protected, but it should be easy enough to land shells inside the building to achieve a splash-damage kill.

German pak gunners have a bit of an advantage. Most of them are in more open terrain with no obstacles near them to provide a splash-damage kill. The biggest risk for german pak gunners is going to be snipers, but all of the german paks should be able to shell any potential sniper roosts.
Cpt.Canuck
QUOTE(ScrapyardBob @ 02/13/06 12:42pm) *


From my initial experimentations with the pak/45mm stationary guns. Most bases are vulnerable to long-range shelling.



Not what I wanted to hear. ohmy.gif sad.gif
ScrapyardBob
Slyk made a few attempts at fixing the issue, but the weapon clips in the trelines don't seem to be working properly. (Fixing R2 45mm to G2 and protecting R2 would require changing the church to have a higher roofline and a wider profile.)

...

Sniping the German #3 pak gunner

Frankly, you're probably going to be better off sneaking up behind this gunner and bashing their brains in. But as long as there are germans guarding the G3 hilltop, sniping is the second best choice for taking out this pak gun.

a. Pillbox trenches (difficult)

A somewhat exposed position, but one that allows you to snipe both the G2 and G3 pak gunners. You'll need to be in the westernmost trenches to get the angle and visibility on the gunner's helmet. It's a tricky shot as you are going to be looking for a small dot of grey mixed in with the foliage / sky. If the gunner is moving around, it will make your job easier.

One option is to crouch in the east-west retaining wall trenches in front of the pillbox. You can lean around the corner and look up at the G3 pak position. Or you can lay down in the southwest portion of the trenchline, between the left E-W walled trench and the sloped wall position in the SW corner.

b. Slope at NE corner of Stone Bridge buildings (dangerous, but easy shot)

There's a small outbuilding on the NE part of the Stone Bridge area with a small slope leading up to the SW corner of the pillbox trenches. It offers a vantage point that looks through the treeline at the G3 pak gunner. The downside? You're going to be in an extremely exposed position so this spot only works if you control the area around the Stone Bridge.

c. River basin SE of G3 (easier)

There's a good bit of ground cover down here. The downside is that you're probably going to be a sitting duck for any germans who come downslope to root you out.

d. R3 ridgeline (easiest)

Probably a very good choice. You can get angle and visibility on the G3 pak gunner from multiple spots along this ridge line. The downside is that the G3 pak gunner can easily return fire on your sniping positions.
ScrapyardBob
Base Assault - Vehicle Inventory

German Spawn
(2) Horch (jeep)
(2) PzIII (medium tank)
(1) PzIV (heavy tank)
(2) SdKfz (half-track)

German #1 (south flank)
(2) Horch (jeep)
(1) PzIII (medium tank)

German #2 (stone bridge)
(4) Horch (jeep)
(1) PzIII (medium tank)
(1) PzIV (heavy tank)
(1) StugIII (heavy tank)

German #3 (north flank)
(2) Horch (jeep)
(1) PzIII (medium tank)

Russian #1 (south rear flank)
(1) BT7 (light tank)
(2) GAZ67b (jeep)

Russian #2 (village)
(1) BT7 (light tank)
(3) GAZ67b (jeep)
(1) KV1 (heavy tank)

Russian Spawn
(1) BT7 (light tank)
(4) GAZ67b (jeep)
(1) GAZAA (truck)
(1) KV1 (heavy tank)
(1) T34_76 (medium tank)

Russian #3 (north forward flank)
(1) BT7 (light tank)
(1) GAZ67b (jeep)

...

German Summary
(10) Horch (jeep)
(5) PzIII (medium tank)
(2) PzIV (heavy tank)
(2) SdKfz (half-track)
(1) StugIII (heavy tank)

Russian Summary
(4) BT7 (light tank)
(10) GAZ67b (jeep)
(1) GAZAA (truck)
(2) KV1 (heavy tank)
(1) T34_76 (medium tank)

I may have overlooked a vehicle somewhere, or screwed up my arithmetic...
ScrapyardBob
Conquest - Vehicle Inventory

German Spawn
(2) Horch (jeep)
(2) PzIII (medium tank)
(2) SdKfz (half-track)

German #1 (south flank)
(1) Horch (jeep)

German #2 (stone bridge)
(2) Horch (jeep)
(1) PzIII (medium tank)
(1) PzIV (heavy tank)
(1) SdKfz (half-track)
(1) StugIII (heavy tank)

German #3 (north flank)
(2) Horch (jeep)

Russian #1 (south rear flank)
(1) BT7 (light tank)
(2) GAZ67b (jeep)

Russian #2 (village)
(4) GAZ67b (jeep)
(1) KV1 (heavy tank)

Russian #3 (north forward flank)
(1) GAZ67b (jeep)

Russian Spawn
(1) BT7 (light tank)
(4) GAZ67b (jeep)
(1) GAZAA (truck)
(1) KV1 (heavy tank)

Russian South Road (W of R1)
(1) GAZAA (truck)
(1) T34_76 (medium tank)

Russian Depot
(5) GAZ67b (jeep)
(3) KV1 (heavy tank)

...

German Summary
(7) Horch (jeep)
(3) PzIII (medium tank)
(1) PzIV (heavy tank)
(3) SdKfz (half-track)
(1) StugIII (heavy tank)

Russian Summary
(3) BT7 (light tank)
(16) GAZ67b (jeep)
(2) GAZAA (truck)
(4) KV1 (heavy tank)
(1) T34_76 (medium tank)
ScrapyardBob
Base Assault notes (mostly ammo locations)

Russian #1
- There are (2) bazooka boxes in the tunnel between Gorshanov House and the Swamp 45mm Gun. A 3rd bazooka box can be found inside Gorshanov House.
- The nearest satchel is probably the house on the south road, east of R1.
- Infantry will probably want to climb on the roof of Gorshanov House or hide in the trench line in front of R1.

German infantry may find it profitable to drive a jeep through the swamp and slip into the area around R1 using the tunnel. They will then be able to make use of the (3) bazooka ammo spawns to take down the base without needing tanks.

Russian - East Trench
- The satchel spawn is right at the west exit of the tunnel from the Russian Spawn. A second satchel spawns at the north end of the trench in one of the bunkers.
- There are (5) bazooka boxes spread throughout the trenchline.

Russian Spawn
- There is a naked bazooka tube on top of boxes in the tunnel leading to the East Trench. A bazooka ammo box spawns in the old house in the forest.
- A satchel spawns in the round house (octogon shaped building right by the tunnel).

Russian #2 / Village
- There is a satchel in the stables just north of R2.
- A bazooka ammo box is in the western building near the tunnel to the pillbox trenches. Another box is in a house nearby, closer to the western road.
- Another satchel spawns in the SW house, closest to the abandoned car and bathtub.
- A bazooka ammo box can be found two houses away from the bathtub.
- Another bazooka ammo box can be found in the house on the west side of the church.
- The house closest to the Swamp 45mm Gun contains a bazooka ammo box (SSE side of town).
- The church also contains a bazook ammo box.
- The trench on the N side of town (by the road) contains a bazooka tube.

Taking this base is going to be a bloody battle. The best approaches for armor is either going to be via the swamp, coming down the NW pass along the north side of town, or sweeping in from the north after taking R3. Keeping the village free of german infantry is going to be a full-time job for the russians.

Pillbox Trench Tunnel
- The tunnel behind the pillbox contains (2) bare bazooka tubes.

Russian #3
- The house upslope (west) of R3 holds a bazooka ammo box.

Russians are going to need to stay extra-alert to keep this base. Whoever controls the ridgeline to the west of the base will control this area. If the germans hold it, it gives them the ability to bring tanks / vehicles / infantry in and attack the R2 area from the north.

German #3 / Hill #62
- The northern, L-shaped trench has a panzerschreck tube.

This will be a rough one for the germans to hold. The rivers and the steep terrain make getting here quickly rather difficult. The abundant ground cover allows infantry to easily slip into the positions around the base. Whoever holds this hilltop (Hill #62) controls the north flank and can allow / prevent flanking movements along the north side of the map.

Stone Bridge / German #2
- There is a satchel charge in the NE corner house.
- A panzerschreck ammo box is in the SE corner house.
- A 2nd satchel charge is in the house just west of the bridge (by the PzIV spawn point).
- A bare panzerschreck tube spawns in the western-most house (closest to the G2 pak gun).

Another bloodbath in the making. Easily reinforced, lots of open terrain. The pillbox and trenches across the way and the houses near G2 allow abundant cover for infantry.

Hill #49 Tunnel
- There is a bare panzerschreck tube in this tunnel.

A key hill to hold for either side. If the russians hold Hill #49, they can attack G1/G2 and prevent germans from using the south flank. If the germans hold Hill #49, the russians will be prevented from using the south flank. When you stand on Hill #49 for the first time, you'll get an idea of its tactical value.

German Spawn
- A panzerschreck ammo box is in the east stables.
- A panzerschreck ammo box is in the north stables.
- A panzerschreck ammo box is in the northwest stables.
- A panzerschreck ammo box is in the west stables.
- There doesn't seem to be a satchel in the german spawn area.
Maj. H8Red
All I gotta say is holy crap Bob, nice work as usual 2_thumbs_up_-_animated.gif
ScrapyardBob
German stationary guns:

a. German Spawn pak gun - This gun is in a weak position. You can trick the gunner into killing themselves by slipping into the spawn area on the very north edge of the opening. The pak gun model cuts into the haybales on the left, so they can't risk lowering the barrel to plant shells on you as you slip in along the fence line. Tanks can also play peeky-boo by rolling up to the pine tree at the NE corner of the spawn.

You're also safe if you keep the east building by the wheatfield between you and the pak gun. This gun cannot see G2 at all. It is also useless against a flanking attack into the spawn from the south side. Basically, it won't play much of a role in defending any of the german bases as long as your team stays out of its coverage arcs.

Sniping this gunner will probably best be done by laying NE of the ridge-top trench at the NE end of the unplanted wheatfield. You're at maximum range for maximum safety. You have excellent visibility of any germans as they leave the NW exit from the spawn. You have decent visibility of the middle of the spawn. While the gunner can return fire, staying on the lee side of the ridgeline makes it a difficult shot. When the germans come after you, it's easy to slip NE into the river valley and lose yourself in the foliage/rocks.

b. German #2 pak gun - Guards the stone bridge area. It can also shell the pillbox area and Hill #49.

Taking out this gun should be easy. Just make your shots count because it can return fire to most sniper positions or shelling positions. One sniping position is Hill #49. The other option is to lay down just about anywhere in the vicinity of the pillbox trenches.

c. German #1 pak gun - Any attempt to bring vehicles up the south flank through the swamp will run into this gun as they come down off of Hill #49.

The north or south end of Hill #49 are the only two spots to get a long-range view of the pak gunner.

d. German #3 pak gun - Guards the north flank. Biggest risk this gunner faces is getting their skull bashed in from behind. Sniping it was covered earlier (it's possible, but not easy).

Bottling the germans in their spawn:

One tank needs to hold Hill #54 (near G1 pak gun). Watch for germans attempting to use the south exit from the spawn, but also provide crossfire on the planted wheatfield area.

A second tank should setup on the north end of the unplanted portion of the wheatfield. It should stay close to the western zone wall, where it can't be seen by the german spawn pak gun. The primary target for this tank will be anyone exiting via the NE passage out of the spawn as they attempt to cross the wheatfield.

The third tank should setup on the NE corner of G2. This keeps it out of the firing arc of the german spawn pak, but gives a clear shot at any germans attempting to exit the spawn.

Assault routes for Russians:

1. North flank: Wood Bridge northwest to R3 west to G3

The biggest obstacle is the G3 pak gun. It can do a lot of damage to armor as you crest the R3 hill on the way to G3. The gunner will need to be sniped ahead of time, or tanks will need to rush along the north edge of the map to get out of the kill zone as fast as possible.

2. North-middle flank to G3

Leave the village via the northwest passage. Turn left (southwest) at the "T" and slip west along the north edge of the pillbox trenches. Tanks and infantry then attack up the hill towards G3. This bypasses the G3 pak gunner. Some risk of shelling from the G2 pak gun as you pass along the north edge of the pillbox trenches.

This route also provides a good way to slip around to the north side of the wheatfield.

3. Middle to G3 or G2

Leave the village via the main road to the west. Drive along the south/west sides of the pillbox and then attack up the hill to G3 or drive across the stone bridge to G2. It bypasses the G3 pak gunner, but you're vulnerable to the G2 pak gun.

You can also attempt G1 by following the river south from the Stone Bridge, but you're unlikely to succeed (two pak guns cover this area).

4. The Swamp Express to Hill #49 (G1/G2)

Until you get to Hill #49, it's likely to be smooth sailing. You have a 45mm at your back to overwatch you as you attempt the swamp and assault the east slope of H49. But as soon as you crest the top of H49, you're going to be vulnerable to two german pak guns (G2 and G1).

Infantry will want to hug the south wall and stay in the thick foliage near the water pump. Or make use of the tunnel/trench on the N side of H49.
ScrapyardBob
After watching a meagre (4) rounds tonight, I've come to a preliminary conclusion:

If you allow the enemy to do as they will, you will lose the map.

Basically that means that:

a. If you see an enemy advance in progress, engage it! Even if you die, you'll have slowed them down and alerted your teammates of the enemy's intentions.

b. If you look at the compass, see a base flashing, with no allies on that flank... you have now been assigned new orders to get over there and investigate.

c. Defense is not optional. If a flank is left unguarded for more then a minute, you've just put down the red carpet for an enemy assault.

d. If you see teammates vanishing off of the compass, odds are good that there is an enemy assault underway in that sector. No matter how hard you wish, it's not going to go away on its own unless you help do something about it.

...

(3) of the (4) games that I watched tonight were over in 15 minutes or less (one only lasted 7 minutes). The other one ran almost to 45 minutes, but russians planted at the last minute and won. Half the time the russians won, half of the rounds were won by the germans.

It will be interesting to see tomorrow's gameplay.

Possible German game plan:

a. Get on the (3) pak guns and shell all (3) russian bases at the start of the match.

b. Slip infantry into the area around R1 and destroy that first. The G1 pak can help with the plant if it is spotted.

c. German tanks should assault R2 from multiple angles (NW side of village and S side of village). The G2 pak can help with guarding the plant if it is spotted so shells land at the base of the R2 flag. Another fine trick is portable MGs in the church tower.

d. Leave R3 until last.

e. Control the G3 hill, the stone bridge, and Hill #49.

Possible Russian game plan:

a. Shell G2 with the 45mm gun by R2.

b. Shut down the german pak guns. (Snipers need to get forward to their positions ASAP.)

c. Take and hold Hill #49. Defend the swamp trench and the swamp 45mm gun. Defend R3 lightly, focus defense more on the W/N sides of town.

d. Destroy G1 and G2 at the same time. Cover the G2 plant using the swamp 45mm and the R2 45mm. The G1 plant can be covered from Hill #49.

e. Leave G3 for last.
ScrapyardBob
...

Note for Goosedown. Last night on Smolensk. I was at the G1 pak gun on Hill #54 (shelling R1), the PzIII was on Hill #49. When you came up Hill #49 from the swamp and attacked the PzIII, he retreated down the hill towards G1.

I went quiet on the pak gun and waited until you came down from the top of Hill #49. The PzIII hid behind G1 and then we both waited for you to come searching for the PzIII.

Smart play on the part of the PzIII driver. It's always a good idea to lure opponents into the killzone of any active stationary guns. That way, even if you die, your teammates can take the enemy out.

...

I've also used the G1 pak gun to flush russians off of Hill #49 and get them to head down the hill to the Stone Bridge or down the hill towards G1. Either way, I get a clearer shot at them instead of guessing where they are based on muzzle flash that I can see through the treeline.
ScrapyardBob
After watching another (3) or (4) matches tonight...

Russians
- really need to shut down the german pak guns ASAP
- they need to control the south flank (Swamp, Hill #49)

Germans
- definitely need to (ab)use the pak guns to take out the russian bases ASAP
- planting russian #1 should be done at the start

One match only lasted 7 minutes (Germans won, 3-0). The next match, the russians held on to Russian #1 so the match dragged on for about 35-40 minutes. The Germans were left defending G1 and G2.

Germans finally won by getting 5 tanks up the swamp approach and managed to turn the corner and dig in around R1 before reinforcements arrived. Not sure what the russians had for defense, but it was in tatters by the time I turned the corner at the tail end of the tank column. Another german tank was rampaging the north end of the East Trench line. The russian KV1 was sitting unused by Russian #2. It was probably the 5th or 6th attempt at taking Russian #1.

...

Defending Russian #1 (some ideas):

1. One defender on the R1 hilltop in a tank. Primary goal is to shell tanks as they turn the corner up north by the river (as they come around the R1 ridge). Secondary goal is to watch for infantry infiltrations (either from the tunnel or by jeeps coming in from the north).

2. Infantry in the Swamp Trench (overlooking the swamp). This is the early-warning post. The russians should be getting size and disposition of any german advance as soon as the germans cross over Hill #49 and head down into the swamp.

3. A heavy tank dug into the East Trench line. This prevents germans from slipping into the spawn area by using the Woodend Bridge. You can also start picking off tanks as soon as they come into view at a long range.

4. Infantry in / on top of the Gorshanov House. They server as backup to any infantry in the Swamp Trench and can also fire bazookas at inbound tanks as they turn the corner on the north approach.

5. Sniper in the church. Another early-warning observer. The farther out you can determine where the germans are assaulting, the better chance your defenders have of being in the right place at the right time.

6. Ambush tank east of R1, probably on the S road leading to the Depot from R1. You'll want to play hide and seek with a view of the church so you can start shelling tanks as soon as they round the corner.

7. Infantry in the East Trench. It can work, but it's easy to miss with the bazooka. Snipers are probably best (or portable MGs).

8. Infantry in the village. Useful for attacking the flanks of a german assault that tries to pass through the village or come in from the NW/N side of the village towards R2/R1.

...

Sniping the German #1 pak gunner on Hill #54

It is absolutely imperative that Russian snipers make life difficult for the G1 & G2 pak gunners. Especially at the start of the round, because those pak guns can shell R1 and R2 which are key bases for the Russians.

a. Hill #49 Trench

Drive a jeep to the SW side of the main village. There is a tunnel up on the ridgeline that leads to the Hill #49 Trench. From this trench, you can see the G1 pak gunner from either end of the trench. You can also take out the G2 pak gunner from here with ease. The downside is that you're an easy target up here, so be extra discreet (and be ready to retreat into the tunnel).

b. Hill #49 (south side)

Drive a jeep up through the swamp to the east side of Hill #49. Exit the jeep at the tank scrape on top of the hill and head south into the foliage. (This is the "Water Pump" area.) You can lay on the hilltop overlooking G1 and snipe the G1 pak gunner. Evasion is easy, just fade back into the Water Pump area or slip across to the Hill 49 Trench (or even retreat towards the swamp and hope your Swamp 45mm gunner is awake).

c. NE corner of Wheatfield

You will need to get past any germans on the G3 hill (Hill 62) or slip up the NW branch of the Stone Bridge river. As you lay on this hilltop you will be able to snipe both the G2 pak gunner and the G1 pak gunner. Evasion is mildly tricky here, but there's a few escape routes with multiple points of cover to the NE.

...

Due to the wide open nature of Smolensk's terrain, snipers should be crafty, discreet (no shot unless it's a sure kill) and ready to retreat at a moment's notice. The farther forward you are, the more care you will need to take in order to avoid another long journey forward. You will want to fade away to another position within a minute after taking your first shot from a location.

A sniper that stays alive, getting kills every minute or two from various locations will drive defenders crazy. Even better, there's a good chance that the enemy will delay an offensive, or draw forces away from defense to hunt down the sniper. So the longer you stay alive, the more distracted the enemy will be. This may allow your team to get the element of surprise on their next offensive because defenders are too busy hunting you down.
ScrapyardBob
Here are links to the first two beta-test threads for Smolensk:

Beta
http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...showtopic=10039
Beta 2
http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...showtopic=10119

Of particular interest is post #28:
http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...pic=10039&st=27

That's where Slyk showed us a graphic showing the size of Barbarossa vs Smolensk. A rough estimate is that on Barbarossa, G2 is about 20,000-22,000 units away from R3. On Smolensk, the opposing bases are closer (12,000-15,000 units) but the home spawn for each team is farther back from their bases.

This makes for slightly different gameplay then on Barbarossa. Defense needs to be more forward-oriented, because once defense around a base fails it will be 20-40 seconds (or longer) before you can get back there.
ScrapyardBob
I think a lot of people are still learning the map. There are sections of the map that are very easy to get lost in (pity that the in-game map doesn't function as a working compass). I'm still of the opinion that we need to increase the default compass range from 1024 units up to 4096 units (maybe even 5000 or 6000 units) for Base Assault mode. A larger compass range would help people to get their bearings better and understand where the bases are.

Still getting a lot of blank looks when I say things like:
- tanks in swamp
- tanks on Hill 49
- G3 hill under attack
- German hiding in N end of East Trench

The fastest round that I saw last night was 8 minutes. Germans formed a large armor column and went north to R3. While they were beating R3 down, I was on the G3 pak gun shelling R2. Timeline:

02:00 - R3 under attack
02:45 - G1 under attack
03:00 - R3 bomb is planted, R2 is opened
03:15 - G2 under attack
03:30 - R2 bomb plant
04:00 - Initial shelling of R1
04:45 - G2 russian attack halted
05:30 - G1 russian attack halted
06:00 - R1 opened, germans begin assault at R1, G1 pak provides cover fire on R1
06:45 - R1 bomb planted
08:00 - end of round

Since I was playing defense, I'm not sure what the germans encountered as they pushed from R3 to R2 to R1. From the compass view, the germans seem to have managed to get 3+ tanks to R1 along with a few infantry to do the plant. It was almost a textbook blitzkrieg assault.

I also spectated a 30-min long round (10v10). Timeline for this one:

01:15 - R2 under attack (germs assault through village)
02:00 - G3 under attack, R2 about halfway open
02:45 - R2 opened, G2 under attack, G3 halfway open
03:00 - R1 under attack
04:00 - R2 planted, R1 about 1/3 opened, G2/G3 2/3 opened
04:15 - R3 under attack
04:30 - G2 opened
04:45 - R2 plant fails due to no upstairs coverage, G2 planted but stopped
05:15 - G3 opened and planted
05:30 - russians sweep around N flank to assault wheatfield
06:45 - G3 defused
07:15 - R1 opened and planted
08:00 - R2 planted, immediately defused, R3 under attack
08:30 - R1 destroyed, R3 opened and planted
09:45 - R3 destroyed
Status: G2, G3, R2 open, G1 still intact (full health)
10:00 - Germans assault R2 from north flank, defeated after 1 minute
10:15 - G3 planted, but defused after 30 sec
11:45 - G3 plant attempted (failed)
13:00 - Germans assault R2 through town, stopped after 90 seconds
14:30 - Russians push germans out of village and counter-attack towards G2
15:15 - German sneaks in N flank attempts plant at R2 (failed)
16:00 - Russians miss a chance to steal the PzIV left behind at R2
16:45 - G3 planted
17:50 - G3 destroyed
21:00 - Massive german force leaves Stone Bridge and both N and S flanks
22:45 - R2 planted during german assault
23:30 - Russians begin to push german assault away from R2, first defuse fails
(the german played dead at the foot of the stairs, 2 russians went in to defuse and were killed by the german with grenades)
23:45 - R2 defused
24:00 - wave 2 of german assault at R2
25:00 - G2 planted
26:00 - G2 defused, german assault at R2 stopped
28:40 - R2 planted at start of wave 3 german assault
29:00 - G2 planted
29:50 - R2 destroyed
- G2 bomb had 15 seconds left
- G1 was still untouched (base had full health)

There were some great epic battles in the village. They would last for anywhere from 1-3 minutes, depending on how many players were involved and how spread out the action was. Unfortunately for the russians, they couldn't stop the german assaults before they reached the area around the church. Probably the key to their loss of R2 were the Stug and PzIV who slipped in the N side of the village unopposed.

The pass on the NW side of the village seems to be a blind spot for the russian team. Germans assaulting through that pass have a three-way choice. They can turn left and head to the main street of the village. They can go straight and slip along the side of the village. Or they can turn left and come around to attack from due north by passing near R3.

More tips:

1. Look both ways before you cross open ground - I've lost track of the number of times that I've watched infantry running across an open area without looking either way. If the player had looked around more, they probably would've seen the enemy tank. The map is large enough that you cannot always hear a tank that may have a clear view of the area you're about to cross.

2. Assume all tanks are hostile - Due to the placement of tanks on the map, the distance from spawns, and the overall size of the map; infantry should assume that any tank they see is an enemy. Pay close attention to your compass and keep track of allied tanks. (This will be easier if the compass fix is added to the server.)

3. Russians should shell the church tower frequently - Forget assaulting the tower to clear it or trying to snipe at it, just notify your tank gunners of the problem. A single, well-placed, tank shell will eliminate the problem quickly. You can also drop artillery barrages on the church which will often kill the player in the church tower. It's important for russians to keep that tower clear if they want to hold on to R2 or R1.

...

I also tried my hand at russian sniper duty last night. The early verdict is that ScrapyardBob is a horrible sniper. Plus, we had way too many snipers on the Russian team. I'd get to a sniping point and find two or three other snipers already in place.
HammaTime
QUOTE(ScrapyardBob @ 02/17/06 12:55pm) *


The fastest round that I saw last night was 8 minutes. Germans formed a large armor column and went north to R3. While they were beating R3 down, I was on the G3 pak gun shelling R2. Timeline:

02:00 - R3 under attack
02:45 - G1 under attack
03:00 - R3 bomb is planted, R2 is opened
03:15 - G2 under attack
03:30 - R2 bomb plant
04:00 - Initial shelling of R1
04:45 - G2 russian attack halted
05:30 - G1 russian attack halted
06:00 - R1 opened, germans begin assault at R1, G1 pak provides cover fire on R1
06:45 - R1 bomb planted
08:00 - end of round

Since I was playing defense, I'm not sure what the germans encountered as they pushed from R3 to R2 to R1. From the compass view, the germans seem to have managed to get 3+ tanks to R1 along with a few infantry to do the plant. It was almost a textbook blitzkrieg assault.

..snip ..


Bob,

That was an amazing round. As 2 came down I noticed the Russians spawning in their 1 and running headlong towards 2. Their defensive attack was light as they were cut off from their armor. I turned east to cross the bridge to their spawn, stole their heavy and proceeded to the railyard pursued by a thin force that was easily dispatched. I cruised through the railyard before turning west to head to their 1 via the back road. By the time I arrived, the base was down and the Germans controlled the high ground. Now, with multiple defensive angles, the Russians didn't stand a chance. As soon as we entered 1, their spawn point returned to their normal spot in the woods and they were cut down the moment they emerged from those woods. It was wonderful chaos! Textbook indeed.

At one point, when you were honing your Russian sniping skills, you had three snipers on Hill 49. I attempted to man the G1 75mm Pak and quickly learned that would be an unhealthy option. Somehow, I managed to run down to the tank spawn at G1 without being sniped - perhaps you three were having coffee. I grabbed the PzIII tank and charged the hill where I encountered just the scenario you had imagined in an earlier post. I had multiple threats, with three distinct angles of attack and all of them were scurrying to ground. I saw the signature streak of smoke as a panzerschreck round sliced through the air over my turret. It had been fired by one sniper as he retreated into the tunnels. I fired on him, but the trenchworks protected him as he scampered into the safety of the tunnel. I crested the hill and continued for 20 yards before turning back to focus on the two of you near the pumping station. You were climbing the small exposed hill heading to our G1 as I hit you in the back with 1 round from the PzIII. Your compatriot sought refuge near the shrubs, rocks and pump housing. I had to fire multiple rounds to take him out. It would have been an impossible angle if I had remained at the crest of Hill 49 and I would have been exposed to another attack from the trench sniper.

Based upon that experience, I would say the concept of having multiple snipers in one location can work, but you have to remember to bring a bazooka or two. You told me later you had neglected to do so. The outcome would have been completely different if more than one of you had been adequately armed.

So far, I have one big complaint. No satchel charge in the German spawn. This must have been a rather glaring oversight.

-HammaTime
Cpt.Canuck
I don't see the reason for having the big gun right behind the German spawn point; perhaps Slyk should address this as it will soon become a huge problem as more Russians take advantage of it - like me.

Please check the photo evidence below. Needless to say, I wasn't too popular with the Germans.
Maj. H8Red
That was a beautiful spawnkill!!!!!! I'm jealous. Nice score BTW
ScrapyardBob
I did ask him to move it to a few different spots. One of the suggestions on where to move it including pushing it back to the S side of that building, giving it a better view up the road towards G2. But there wasn't time to move that pak gun elsewhere.

It does come into play during CNQ as the last capture point is in the western stables.


Satchel charges for the germans is a definite weakness. The nearest satchel charges to the german spawn are at the Stone Bridge. The russians have (3) within a short distance from their spawn hill.

Satchel Charges
- Russian Spawn, Octogon-shaped building by tunnel
- East Trench, exit tunnel from russian spawn
- East Trench, north end in a bunker
- S Road between Depot and R1
- Village, Stables just N of R2
- Village, SW house by bathtub/car
- Stone Bridge, NE corner house
- Stone Bridge, House just W of bridge

I've been tempted to say that the 45mm in the Pillbox should be added back in for BAS play. It's there in CNQ/CTF but was turned off for BAS based on an early pass of game balance. I think both teams have strengths/weaknesses in their terrain, so I'm still on the fence about whether russians need help from the Pillbox 45mm again.
ScrapyardBob
This is definitely not a "forgiving" map... while I've seen one side or the other recover from being off-kilter, it's more rare then not. Basically, if you don't actively defend any open bases, you can kiss them goodbye. By the time you get there and drive off the enemy, you'll have almost no chance at defusing in time.

Especially if the enemy sailed right up the flanks, unopposed, and got all their tanks to your base without any damage.
Lord Lipton
beautiful, bob.
Blinky
don't see the reason for having the big gun right behind the German spawn point; perhaps Slyk should address this as it will soon become a huge problem as more Russians take advantage of it - like me.

Please check the photo evidence below. Needless to say, I wasn't too popular with the Germans.



You got that right, no doubt about that, Captain. angry2.gif cussing.gif
Slyk
Perhaps a bad spot for a pak gun, but if you get enemy soldiers that entrenched in your own spawn, you've earned it. One risk with a big, open map is allowing enemy soldiers to slip around and get behind you. Overall, this map, as well as Barb, force teamwork. More often than not, the team that communicates, cover eachother with support fire, and generally work as a unit wins. That rear pak gun is not much use in base mode, but is vital in CNQ. Repositioning it in some cases overpowers it. It is merely a tool with limits and needs to be used as such. No different than taking a BT7 on banzai charges into multiple Panzers... just dumb... or trying to melee 5 rockets toting infantry with a KV1 in the middle of a village...not smart.
ScrapyardBob
For the germans, lighting up their 3 pak guns at the start of a BAS round is definitely a key objective.

- Two players go north to G3 hilltop. Primary objective is to use the G3 pak to shell R2 (an easy shot, even blind). Secondary objective should be to spoil / warn of any russian assault along the N flank.

- Two players at the stone bridge. One to use the PzIV and hold the bridge while the other gets on the G2 pak and shells R1 / R2 / Hill 49.

- Two players at the south flank. One on Hill 49 to spoil / warn of Russians advancing through the swamp. The other on the G1 pak gun to shell R1 / R2 / Hill 49.

The rest of the germans should split up, go on offense, and try to take the russian bases (#1 and #2). Getting infantry through the R1-Swamp tunnel is important. That lets you plant the R1 base almost immediately after it falls to long-range fire.
ScrapyardBob
We should pin this topic too...
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