Note: Some of this information will change over time as things change during the beta testing phase. But it's still close enough to final so we can start discussing tactics and strategy.

Here's the map. Each one links to a 1600x1200 version.


Base Assault map

Key strategies / thoughts:

1) Intel, communication, and coordinated movement are very important to both offense and defense. Otherwise you'll end up with enemy vehicles behind your lines (or in your spawn) or your assault force will run straight into an ambush.

2) The early tank blitz is very powerful. I've seen more then a few 8-minute rounds because one team moved forward with 5-6 tanks and 3-5 infantry in jeeps in one large mass. They simply rolled from base to base as a unified assault force. Tanks stood off and shelled from a distance while infantry slipped into enemy positions to steal tanks or disrupt reinforcements.

Counter: Intel and a willingness to engage the enemy.

I've seen a lot of teams *avoid* contact with the initial enemy blitz. That's a sure way to lose. Each team needs 1-3 players to split off from the main starting blitz and chase after and disrupt the enemy blitz

Last night, the germans were mounting an assault force on Russian #1, all of the german tanks were down around the R1 field. Infantry on the R1 pak45, etc. 2-3 russians were all that it took to break up the formation and disrupt the attack. One russian got on the Hill 13 mortar and got 5 kills. The other two russians snuck around the flanks, stayed hidden, and killed infantry / tanks.

Alternate Counter: One to three defenders at the start of the round

Sometimes, for the want of a single defender, battles are lost.

3) Stop, look, and listen

When you spawn, look around. Do you see enemy infiltrators in the spawn? Do you hear tanks being stolen? Do you hear enemy gunfire?

Infantry need to look both ways before crossing open terrain. You can usually spot most ambushes before you enter the killzone.

4) Never leave home without an anti-tank round and a satchel

Anti-tank rounds in the spawn areas are on a 10sec respawn timer. Farther forward, you're going to be waiting 30 seconds for rounds to respawn and you'll only get 1 round at a time instead of 3-4.

I've seen more then one player die a senseless death because they didn't pack anti-tank rounds for the trip. Or they had to watch helplessly as a tank rolled by without noticing them (missing the chance of a perfect ambush).

5) Assume that pak positions are "live"

Assaulting a live pak position from the front is suicidal. Get your infantry flanking the pak positions and use snipers to kill the gunner. A well timed arty barrage is also a good way to make the gunner run for cover.

Be sure to communicate with your team if you know that a particular pak gun is live.

germans owned last night by employing a mix of hvy tanks, infty, half tracks/jeeps.

that won games

Control of the river is probably the key strategy. If the Russians can control that Southeast Bridge in the South Forest, they deny an attack route to the Germans. Same thing for the river ford in the farm area and the North Bridge.

Three to six Russians, spread North-South along the river, can either destroy advancing armor columns or at least weaken them severely as they attempt to cross the river.

I think Russians need to be aggressive about holding the (3) main river crossings.

Squad-based combat (Coordination and Communication)

2-5 players, traveling together with the same common goal, using a mix of weapons can roll over most opposition that they encounter. Especially when the opposition is traveling lone-wolf style with no backup support.

We saw this a lot tonight on Tuchola during the late hours. Teams traveling together in packs of 2-6 players were crushing any and all opposition in their way. They would roll a base, plant it, most of the team would move on to the next base while 1-2 players guarded the plant.

Or two players teaming up to shut down a bottleneck. One player on the pak gun (Oh You) while the other player hides in an ambush position to support the pak gun. As the pak gun draws fire, the 2nd player ambushes the armor column from behind. A good pair can get in 4-12 kills before they get routed out of their positions.

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Etiquette for traveling in a pack.

If you're at the head of the pack, you're on point. That means you need to alert your followers about threats and you need to stay just ahead of the pack. (Too far ahead and your pack won't be able to provide support.) I've seen a lot of assaults fail because the fast tanks and jeeps outran the slow tanks. Fast tanks should sprint-and-listen. Get ahead a little bit, then stop and look/listen while the slower tanks catch up. Jeeps should act as scouts, clearing the way for the armor column.

If you're at the tail of the pack, keep up but make sure the pack doesn't get attacked from behind. As the rest of the pack digs in to assault a base you should take up a position that guards their 6 o'clock. Especially if you're in a light tank that won't do much damage against a base.

G3 has some unique challenges to defenders and attackers. If the Russians leave it as the last base to be destroyed, the round will most likely end in a draw. The approaches to G3 can be defended with ease.

On the other hand, the wonderful terrain around G3 makes it a prime spot for infiltrators to melt away when defenders appear. I managed to single-handedly drop G3, plant and destroy the base simply because I was patient. I would shell the base and when defenders arrived, I would melt into the background. They'd look around casually and move on. My shelling would resume, more would come, the same cursory inspection and they would leave. When I planted, I exited the base and hid in the trench. When the *single* defender arrived, I killed him as he tried to defuse.

The key here for the Germans is not to let G3 remain without defenders and if you see the base being rocked, find and kill the attackers. That means getting out of your tanks and **hunting** your quarry. It is incredibly easy at G3 to dart unseen around a rock as a tank rolls around it.

If the base is being planted, get multiple defensive troops there fast. Set up a perimeter and keep your eyes open until the bomb has been defused. With this base, you can't turn your back as soon as you see the bomb being defused. The planter can be out of sight, but within a satchel or grenade throw of the base.

R2 has some similar characteristics. The multiple paths that lead to that base mean multiple troops can be hiding in wait just past the entrance to the path. One defender rushing into that path is useless as there are three possible routes in which the attacker can flee, only to turn and kill you as you return to the base. I've seen the Ruskies try to defend that base with their tanks backed up against the base looking out, oblivious to the path entrance *BEHIND* their tanks.

Hamma made a good point that is useful in any stratagy. Patience is the key. My biggest problem personally is I tend to charge into a situation or ambush by those with more patience than myself. Oh ya, generally by Scrappy or Thomas grrrrrrrrrrrr.

I agree that the G3 should be the utmost target for the Russians. The base is easily defended by the Germans and can be entered from different angles. I once entered the base by exiting a jeep from the road above. I landed right on the stairs going down to the lower level. It was way cool. Sort of like entering Russian2 on Barb. I learned that trick from Silver and use it often.

On the other hand I think the russian 2 and 3 are easily assaulted by way of wooded paths. A german with "patience can easily travel between the bases capturing tanks, panzers and eventually bases. You do however have to choose your battles.

Russian 1 should always have a defender around because for some reason, the Russians are spawned away from this base a majority of the time. If you have noobs on this team they will make sure all your jeeps, tanks etc will not be available to get back to R1 quickly.

It is the utmost importance to work together as a team to take objectives. I personally like to work with Thomas or Goose becuase they can really put the team work down. So find someone to pard up with and play smart. You are no good to anyone if you keep dying without accomplishing anything.

Never leave your base without bazookas and satchels. These items may mean your success in winning the game. And finally....get on vent and have fun playing. It can also make a difference.

DieNaMic out...peace all

I've done similar to Hammatime on G3 as well.

I started my attack towards G3 as part of a larger force that ran into trouble while assaulting up the road. I went to ground in the North V2 Launch Site area and was overlooked by the Germans. The Germans then formed up and moved out along the North Road.

Rather then engage (way outnumbered and no place to retreat to), I communicated in team chat about the assault force. Then I started moving from tree to tree and from rock to rock along the north wall until I got up behind the defensive positions. Finally, I reached the large rock near the minefield on Hill 23 (west of G3).

From there, I was able to belly up and drop arty on the G3 base. Every 2 minutes, the Germans would come scurrying towards G3 looking for attackers. Sure enough, they'd glance around, then drive away.

Once the base was cracked open, I waited on teammates to arrive. They arrived in a jeep and planted. I stayed in my hiding spot, ready to ambush any German reinforcements on the western approach. With 35-40 sec left on the clock, I dropped my arty on the base again and killed someone who was slipping in using the southeast approach to G3.

...

Note: We've seen the same sort of approach used on Russian #3 on the Barbarossa server. German infantry will hide in the houses near R3 and drop arty on it to crack it open.

LOL, actually, that rock is big enough to hide a tank behind! I was amazed to discover how long I could sit there idling. And that path below the rock is phenomenal, Scrap. A real gem that I only discovered as I was trying to escape the area after blowing the base.

Going from there to the German spawn I was able to steal a tank and quickly appreciated how well the German spawn has been designed. I could spawn kill, but it wasn't long before the respawners were firing rockets at me through the slit, moving on my flank and generally ending any fun I might have had.

My only complaint at this point is satchel spawns. Perhaps you can help me find more satchels. I only know of single spawn points in both the Russian and German spawn points. Perhaps there are some that I've missed near the bases, but I haven't found them. Would it be possible to set some satchels near the outlying bases?

That little U-shaped path that you found on the W side of the road is there to give infantry another route up to G3 to reinforce. Originally, there was going to be a pak40 position on the N end of that path to give infantry some heavy guns to retake the G3 hilltop.

CNQ gameplay also moves right down that road (from G3 to the V2 site to the ammo shelters).

Satchel spawns (beta 2):

- G1 pak gun
- the two larger G spawn bunkers
- building east of R1 on the hill
- ammo tunnel in the R spawn
- R2 "mortar" bunker
- S Forest Bunker (I think)
- Glacier Pass, north side defensive positions
- W Farm Bunker
- NE Farm Bunker

I need to add one more satchel spawn into the R spawn area, maybe two. They'll be inside of the two bunkers that aren't detailed yet. I don't remember if I added one in the Farm area.

I saw a little game chat tonight talking about how the map definitely rewards teamwork and how lone-wolf players may not be as effective. The regulars on the map are definitely starting to learn that lesson.

Another funny comment was "Those KV1s are hunting in packs!". I'd guess that coming over the hill into a trio of KV1s was a rude surprise for somebody.

Germans will need to relearn how to defend G1 in the next beta release. The G3 base and G2 base were also weakened slightly.

The early tank blitz needs to be spotted and disrupted by a small squad of players. We managed that tonight by doing the following:

- One player went and got on the SE Bridge pak45 position. As the Germans rolled through the S Forest intersection, the pak45 opened fire which caused them to scatter and dig in.

- A jeep that was headed towards the front via the Farm area turned and came south into the South Forest. The infantry dismounted *behind* the German armor column and proceeded to destroy tanks left and right.

So a handful of infantry stopped 5-8 german players who could've rolled straight into Russian #1 and the rest of the Russian bases.

Hey theres a problem in the map on the fence it has a normal long fence part but no stump holding it up it is hanging from nowere

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib.../3-0/index.html

Useful for reading up on offensive and defensive operations (Chapter 7 and 8).

(Please leave feedback in the beta testing threads for map glitches.)

Thankyou for that one Bob, made my day. We had a good run that one time when you were hidin in the South Forest, and i was up on the pak, but the best time was when you were on the pak, and i was snipin and bazookaing from behind that big rock. I got lots of kills there, untill i decided to go scout out what was happening and ran into a heavy .

Updated maps for Beta #2 (all three link to higher res images):

Scouts are pretty important on this map. If you're farther forward then any of your teammates, then you're the "scout". An enemy armor column that is not detected can cause a lot of trouble for the defenders, but an assault force that is known can be chewed to shreds by an ambush.

Key locations for scouts:

1) The North Bridge - A natural bottleneck and vehicles have a limited number of routes.

2) The South Forest - Prime location for infantry ambushes. The NE portion of the forest is especially good for infantry, although the S portion also works well.

3) The Farm - Harder to stay alive, but key scout territory to keep the enemy from running an assault force straight up the middle.

...

I've seen a lot of teams lose this week because nobody warned of an impending assault force until those vehicles were already dug-in around the base. The best time to ambush an assault force is when it's on the move. The lead elements in the convoy are focusing on getting to the objective while the trailing elements are generally preoccupied with catching up with the lead elements.

Remember the guidelines of ambush:

- Let your targets get square into the middle of the kill-zone before engaging.
- Don't give them an escape route.
- Start with the trailing elements, the lead elements may not notice the attack until too late.
- Hit them from multiple compass points at the same time.
- Aim for the rear of tanks, go for one shot kills.
- Start with the light tanks first, heavy tanks are sitting ducks without escorts.

Working in a group, either on foot, in a jeep, or in mass tank assaults, not only makes your team as a whole, much more effective, but i've found you have a much more enjoyable round, co-ordinating, planning etc.. Its just another plus to working in squads.

Right Shake! LOL! That was the best round i've played on Tuchola yet!

A Jagdpanther in the G3 tank scrape can hit R3. It's a very flat trajectory (the Jagdpanther has a high muzzle velocity), about 5 degrees of elevation (maybe 10 at the most). I'd imagine that you can hit the other russian bases from this tank scrape as well.

Still working on figuring out firing angles for other locations on the map. Russians should do well from their north and south tank scrapes.

Updated Defensive Points for Beta #2.

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German Team

For the Germans, defense boils down to watching the 3 major approaches (N Bridge, Farm, S Forest). This takes 3 squads (2-4 players per squad) and can be done in various locations along each approach. Each squad should probably float between the rear position (i.e. 1a) and the forwardmost position (i.e. 1c).

1) South Flank (2-3 members) - Keep the South Forest clear. Should be defendable with a 2-player squad, but a 3rd player may be required to keep Hill 57 clear (and to float towards the North Bridge). One player should patrol the area around G1, guarding the S flank of the spawn area, while the other players should patrol farther forward (east and southeast of G1). The forward positions are "report first, ambush second".

1a) G1 Defense - Last ditch position. Best bets for infantry is the trench NE of G1, the treeline just SE of G1, or staying on the pak40 at G1. Worst place to be is right on top of the base as you are surrounded by high ground.

1b) SW Bridge - There is a foxhole that you can hide in at the SW Bridge, or various rocks and spruce trees for cover. Probably a good place to put a tank on defense if it sits west of the bridge up on the hill. This is really an intermediate position on the way to digging into the South Forest.

1c) South Forest - Key scout location for the south flank. There are a pair of ambush positions for tanks along the south wall and the southeast exit from the Hill 57 Trail is also a good tank ambush position. Infantry will want to either hole up at the North Bridge, the South Forest Bunker or in the trench on the very south side of the forest. A single scout in the South Forest can give 60 seconds of warning to defenders closer to the German bases about incoming attacks.

2) Middle Flank (2-3 members) - Control the Farm is the goal, probably can be done with 2+ member squad. One teammate should stay on the G2 pak40 to keep their team spawning in the main spawn area (instead of at G1/G3). Other teammates should get into the farm area and watch for and ambush enemy assaults through the farm. Remember: "report first, ambush second".

2a) G2 Defense - Last ditch position. Get on the pak40 while your teammates bring tanks up out of the spawn to attack incoming assaults. Tanks coming out of the spawn should use both approaches to G2 to cut off enemy attacks from the sides.

2b) West Farm - Not a bad scout location, either in the S Farm Trench, the Farm House, the W Farm Bunker or the NW Farm Mortar. You won't live long, so plan on running back to your post frequently (or relay with the other G2 defenders).

2c) East Farm - A better scout location. Either the SE Mortar, the NE Farm Bunker, or the E Farm Trench. All of these positions allow you to ambush russian assault forces from behind / flanks as they cross the farm area.

3) North Flank (2-4 members) - Easily held by 2-4 players. One teammate should hang back at G3, the other members of the squad should patrol Hill 83, the N Road and the N Bridge.

3a) G3 Defense - The pak40 and tank scrape are in decent positions, but only if the middle and south flank defense holds up. Otherwise, you're going to have to go stealth and hide behind rocks and trees to get into ambush positions on enemy tanks.

3b) North Road - Excellent ambush possibilities, but you're also going to have to watch out for infantry that slip along the north wall into the V2 area or infantry that slip through the treeline to get to Hill 83. Best position is to work on keeping the North Farm and Hill 83 clear of enemies.

3c) North Bridge - Key scouting location to give 30-60 sec warning to defenders. There's a hiding spot just NE of the bridge that works very well. You can also hide in the NE Farm bunker. For small assault forces (single tank), only take a shot if you can get a sure kill. Otherwise, simply warn your teammate and continue watching.

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Russian Team

Russian defense is about the same as the Germans, unless the Russians get pushed backwards. The major approaches are still the North Bridge, the Farm, and the South Forest.

1) South Flank (3-4 members) - A tough flank for the Russians to defend. This may take a squad of 3-4 players to hold effectively.

1a) R1 Pak / R1 Tank Scrape - One teammate should stay on / around the R1 pak45. It has the best chance of hitting tanks up on Hill 13 or spotting gunners on the Hill 13 mortar. A tank parked in the R1 tank scrape can do a lot of damage to armor as they come down the hill towards R1, but is otherwise blind to what is on Hill 13.

1b) Hill 13 / Hill 17 Radio Shack - Another key location. Hill 13 and Hill 17 need to be swept regularly for troops and tanks. This can mostly be done while on the way to the SE Bridge and the South Forest.

1c) SE Bridge / South Forest - The SE Bridge pak45 is key to holding the south approach, but it's a high-risk occupation. One teammate may wish to use the pak45 while the other teammate hides in the middle of the forest in an ambush position. The forward teammate can provide intel to the pak45 gunner. As the pak45 draws enemy fire, the forward teammate(s) can ambush the assault force from the rear.

2) Farm Approach (2-3 members) - One teammate should always stay on the R2 pak45. This helps Russians to spawn in their spawn area rather then at R1/R3. The second teammate should stay around the R2 Mortar bunker or farther forward in the Farm area.

2a) R2 Defense - Last ditch position. One teammate on the R2 pak45. One teammate guarding inside the treeline. Rest of teammates should attempt to retake the R2 mortar bunker and the field south of R2.

2b) R2 Mortar Bunker - A great spot, but predictable. You may also choose to go west into the treeline across from the bunker.

2c) Farm - Probably the best place for a Russian scout. Especially if you can get into the West Farm Bunker or the Farm Buildings (or the SE Mortar).

3) North Flank (2-4 members) - One teammate on the R3 pak45 or in the tank scrape N of R3. Other teammates should patrol Glacier Trail A and the treelines around R3. One teammate should be towards the west end of Glacier Trail while the other teammate is in the middle / east of Glacier Trail.

3a) R3 Defense - Last ditch. One tank in the R3 tank scrape. Infantry hiding in the treelines around R3. Watch for German infantry coming through the treeline.

3b) Glacier Pass / Glacier Trail - Infantry should haunt Glacier Trail and attempt to float between ambushing tanks / infantry on Glacier Pass or the North Road. This will require intel on which way the german advance went after passing the North Bridge.

3c) North Bridge - Key scout location. A wiley scout can pull double-duty, warning of attacks via the north approaches or the middle approach. The scout should endavour to stay alive, stay undiscovered and give 30+ seconds of warning to the middle / north flank squads so they can get into ambush positions.

...

Basically, a team needs 6-8 players on defense in a 16v16 match. The other half of the team should divide into a pair of assault squads and attack in a coordinated fashion. If the assault squads are getting chewed up, you may want to free up members from defense, but make sure that assault forces are sweeping the approaches on their way forward.

Forward elements of a defensive squad should feel free to push forward (one player always stays back and guards the last-ditch position) until they encounter the opposition. If the rear element of a defensive squad starts to engage, forward elements should turn around and head back to their defensive areas. Forward elements should also be cognizant of where the rest of the team is so that they don't leave large gaps in the defensive net. Forward elements should observe the rule of "report first, ambush second". Let your teammate know what's coming before you engage (if at all possible), if surprise is lost, use the V21 (infantry) or V56 (tank) keys to report (remember... V-keys make noise).

Defensive squads may wish to overlap coverage a bit, but they should be leery of leaving any approach unwatched for more then 15-30 seconds. The enemy will always attack via the unwatched approach (this is like a natural law or something).

Spawn Control

Controlling where your team is currently spawning is important on larger maps. One of the nastier situations which can develop is the enemy controlling your spawn (and stealing all of your armor) while your team helplessly spawns at a far away base that only has a single light tank for defense.

This is especially bad for the Germans when they spawn at G3 on Tuchola Forest or G3 on Smolensk (or G1 on Barbarossa). Also bad for the Russians spawning at R1/R3 on Tuchola Forest or R2 on Barbarossa (or R3 on Smolensk).

Things you need to know about spawn logic

1) Knowledge of the map - Does your team spawn in breached bases (mp_ponyri) or only in unbreached bases (Barbarossa, Smolensk, Foy, Tuchola Forest) in addition to the main spawn. You should also know how many spawn points are in each base and their location.

2) The spawn engine will attempt to spawn you close to your teammates and away from any spawn points with enemies closer then 1000u to the spawn point. There's a random factor applied as well, so things aren't a sure bet. It will also attempt to not spawn you at locations where someone was just killed.

Remember, it only checks within 1000u of a spawn point (about as far as you can toss a grenade) for enemies. Plus, the random factor may still cause you to spawn right next to an enemy (so be alert and look around when you spawn).

3) The spawn engine cannot spawn players into spawn points occupied by other entities (vehicles or players or enemies). This is known as "telefragging" in the GSC file (for the curious folks).

Application:

A) Always keep a teammate in the main spawn area (or very close to it).

I do this all the time on Barbarossa when playing German. When the entire team goes on the opening blitz, I hang back and stay in the main tank park, or I patrol the road between G2 and G3 (on Barbarossa). This ensures that when my teammates start dying, they spawn in the tank park or the G2 spawn house rather then at G1.

On Tuchola Forest, there should always be a Russian hanging around the Tank Barn, Spawn House, or in the trenches / bunkers in the main spawn. For Germans, that player should probably stay near the G2 pak gun.

If you're the only player alive in the spawn area and there are enemies around, STAY ALIVE until your teammates start spawning near you. That means - don't engage! Instead, spend a few seconds typing a warning to your teammates while you wait for them to spawn near you. They'll spawn with good intel on what's in the spawn and you'll have reinforcements who can help you clear the spawn area.

B) Block spawn points

This is rather easy in Tuchola Forest. There are only 2 spawn points in each base (one upstairs near the ladder, one downstairs straight ahead from the stairs). Other maps are trickier as they have 3 or 4 spawn points in the base.

When you spawn at a poor location - don't move from your spawn point. By staying on top of the spawn point, you prevent your teammates from also spawning into the bad location. If you manage to block both spawns in the base, you can force your team to start spawning somewhere else.

A rough estimate is that it only takes 30 seconds of blocking the 2 spawn points to force enough of your teammates to spawn elsewhere so that the center of mass changes. That 30 seconds of your time will save your team a world of pain, but requires that you have a companion who understands the concept and spawned inside the base with you.

(IOW, this is a tricky maneuver to pull off. You may be better to get out and hightail it to the main spawn area to pull the center-of-mass for the team back into the main spawn.)

C) Don't block good spawn points

A rough corollary to the advice of blocking bad spawn points. If you spawn in a good spot, move away from the spawn point so that your teammates can spawn behind you in the same spawn point.

Small thoughts on using spawn control to your advantage:

If the Russians are ahead by 2 points going into the second round, the best plan of attack is to force the Germans into spawning at G3. This means attacking G1, G2 and the spawn at the start of the round. If you're quick enough on the assault / plant, you can eliminate G1 and G2 before the Germans manage to retake their spawn.

For assaulting the Russians, it's a bit more difficult. While you can force them to spawn at R3 or R1, it's still moderately easy for the Russians to retake their spawn.

I can't load this map. Everytime it finishes with the load in screen, my screen goes black. I have tried turning on nvidia fog on/off. I have tried downloading the map off your server and also in this thread. Any idea whats causing me to get a black screen?
|MM| Toggle

man wow.........you are a f***ing genious man you make the best maps...you should make another version with like a couple more trenches..like on the sides of the g1 pak ummmm trenches on the russian side of the north bridge ....trench german side of the river on the south forest near the bridge and a trench along the mortar pit in the farm russian side ,,,that would totallly be cool and more places to defend from on both sides