Just wondering what is your opinion concerning that "war"!
For myself i see it as another way for isreal to conquer other territory that does'nt belong to them.Oh yeah they give Hezbollah as a reason for their attack,,,,,bs they kill 10 innocent to get 1 hezbollah fighter.

What you boyz and gurls think?

I think you're retarded.

Hmm, I've been wondering about posting something on this topic. Glad you started it.

Granted, I'm sure Israel is using what has happened as a reason to occupy certain parts of Lebanon, but it's for their own safety. Hezbollah kidnapped two soldiers... not civilians. In any country, that is an act of war. I feel bad for Israel. Seems like they just want the right to exist in a land but they are surrounded by all the arab countries that are filled with crazy people steeped in religious hatred for others and themselves. Why can't these islamic extremists just be happy with their own religion and stop bothering everyone else in the world.

Personally, I hope Israel stomps those fuckers and keeps moving into Syria and Iran where this really stems from. I'm tired of the people in the middle east blaming the US for what's happening too. We toss in a resolution and they piss on it. Fuck'em.

btw, speaking on your 10 innocent to get 1 fighter. Israel make phone calls nad sent pamphlets to southern Lebanon telling all civilians to leave 25 miles north. Since Hezbollah isn't an actual military, they should assume that all people still there are militants. Plus, much like Saddam, Hezbollah uses schools, hospitals, and mosques for weapon storage and bunkers so if they are blown up, they can scream "WTF?" Smart, but extremely stupid.

Have you been watching how Lebanon is pumping out propoganda? They tell the ambulance drivers to keep circling the hospital and surrounding streets so the press/media will get it on camera. Funny as hell, saw that on AC360 last week.

You've got to be kidding me right?
"i see it as another way for isreal to conquer other territory that does'nt belong to them"
You mean the same security zone they left in 2000?
The same zone they said they would stay out of as long as there were no attacks on their border with Lebanon?
You mean the same border zone that Hezbollah crossed in a raid on July 12 for the sole purpose of trying to capture Israeli solders so they could arrange a prisoner exchange?
Is that the area your talking about?

Here is an examples of Hezbollah military position.

Right smack in the middle of a civilian area which is exactly where Hezbollah wants to be.
Of course there are going to be a lot of civilian casualties whenever Israel attacks a Hezbollah position.
Sorry but Lebonon is supporting Hezbollah and so is the people.
Hezbollah hides amongst the civilians as a strategy to stage these attacks on civilians and expose harm to those civilians they hide amongst, yet people want to blame Israle?
How about the 18 Lebanese Hezbollah exectued since this all started because they claimed there were Israeli colaborators. I didn't see any western papers run any stories about that even though it did make the news in Lebannon.

I agree it's a terrible thing so many civilians have died but the real reason for that lies with Hezbollah not Israel. For those who want to complain about Israel killing civilians, where is your outrage for
1) The hundreds of rockets that have fallen on Israeli cities and its people, packed with ball bearings.
2) The kidnappings and the airliner hijackings which Hezbollah has taken credit for
3) The suicide bombings
4) The blowing up of a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires in the late 90's, which Hezbollah took credit for, 85 dead 300 wounded... all civillians.

Yep poor Hezbollah, I'm sure they would be great guys if only Israel would roll over & play dead.

I don't know who is the most retarded ...a guy that try to have a discussion with other people to see different point of view or a guy that only have for argument "I think you're a retarded",,,,I thought that 17 years old kids are wiser than that but it don't look like that!!

But to know him is to love him.

Just for my knowledge was this zone set by israel?Was this zone split half and half on Lebanon and isreal ground?i'm searching on the net but i don't find information!
Thanks

vintage saucy,

and i have only been around for 6 months....

Why is it that Israel has to apologize when they kill civilians yet Hezbollah just blindly shoots rockets into urban civilian areas all day in hopes of killing civilians? I really don't get the whole Islamic double standard? Infidels can't put out a comic of Mohammed because it offends them, yet they can burn my flag, talk a lot of shit, put out depictions of other prophets/gods, and make up a lot of lies about infidels. Just crazy.

Wotan, are you anti-jew or is this food for thought? I'm hearing a lot of left wing radio or reading stuff where they do sometimes lead the story with a sympathetic word for Hezbollah. I heard some guy on the radio the other day wondering why the media isn't covering more of the great things Hezbollah does and has done for Lebanon and it's people. WTF? Should we have stopped what we were doing in WWII to tell everyone about all the good things Hitler was doing for Germany and Eastern Europe??? Seriously, he did a fine job with health care, education, science, and beyond... pretty amazing actually. But he was an evil person which outweighed the good things. Seeing that Hezbollah wants to eradicate Israel and the US might make my thoughts on this whole thing a bit biased. What did I ever to do to Islam or Muslims? Nothing. Why do they want to kill me? Oh, that's right... because I don't have the same religious faith as they do.

Why don't we (entire world) covert to Islam tomorrow and then ask them, "what now? do you still have to kill me?" Ofcourse they're going to want to kill us... that's all they know. Kill people or kill myself to kill people.

I believe the initial reason for the 25 mile occupation is to strip it and bring in UN or international forces to patrol. This creates a 25 mile cushion that would be hard for terrorists to slip through to fuck with Israel. I don't get it... Israel gives, gives, and gives... yet the Arab countries aren't happy.

Have you guys ever noticed how big Israel is. Then think about how big the Arab countries are. Yet these countries keep egging Palestinians on to kill more Israelies to get land back. I have an idea, how about Syria or Lebanon give some land to Palestinians? Everyone's happy!

I almost want to say just blow the entire area away so nobody can have it. Too much blood shed over religion... it makes it almost a bad thing to believe or have faith in anymore.

Man as long as mankind exist war will exist.



I'll try to know him more!!
I love you Saucy....gee me a kiss!!

The area I was reffering to was put in place by Israel as a security buffer between Israel & Lebannon.
If was there from 1982 until 2000.
The last half it was patrolled by Israel on one side & Lebanese on the other.
Actually Israel paid the wages of the Lebanese soilder who worked their half of the zone.

you really dont know your facts ,do you

No!....i don't know everything...do you?
I think it's a good opportunity to learn, when someone like druid, brings a point that i did'nt know about ...i can ask him question and he answered might even change my point of view!!
What do you think about this subject iron?
i like how some of the guys on the forum just like to bash on people!!

Isreal has had ALOT of shit happen to them in the last 200 years,more then any other country,something had to break ,and this was it.

How can I comment on a war that nether me or my country is involved in,or my countries armed forces.Its alll to easy to subject another country to go to war if ours is not involved.What you should be asking is...What would your country of done if it was in Isreals shoes.

Dont take this post the wrong way....just answering your above post

Yeah ...but does it excuse everything should'nt we have on eye on them and on lebanon and the Hezbollah?



Understand ...sometimes i have problem saying in english what i mean!lol
Even if your country is not involved you can have an opinion?

Back to the buffer zone that Israel is creating right now. That used to be part of Israel that they gave (back) to Lebanon in the 90's as a type of peace offering. Since then, Lebanon has been silent allies to the US and Israel till this whole Hezbollah thing got big in the last few years. Just like how the Israelis gave the Gaza strip to the Palestinians out of good faith to stop the violence but it still hasn't stopped. I think that the Palestinians don't want peace... they only know killing. What's that Megadeath album? Killing is my business and business is good.. or something like that? The extremists won't have anything to do if there's peace in the middle east so they keep it alive. Plus terrorism is a huge money maker. Arafat never worked a real job in his life, yet his wife lives in France with 80 million dollars. Hmmm.

I read some more.....i'm confuse.....i was lacking information.Take a look at this:http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/mideast/His...utshell_Too.swf

And that:http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html.


Yeah you were right those Arab don't want peace....
Now why did israel tolerate those people in the gaza strip and the west bank??
There's a couple of non-sense they won the war against a couple of arab states but they gave them back sinai and they left them gaza and west bank!!!

Any of you read the Bible? This started thousands of years ago with Issac and Ishamael whose decendants became the Jews and the Arabs. The descendants of Ishmael and Isaac (Arabs and Jews) have fought battles in the arenas of politics and religions since the day of a serious domestic quarrel in the house of Abraham. This domestic dispute led to Sarah driving away Hagar and her son Ishmael. The two sons decendants have been fighting ever since. The Bible says that this will never end until the return of Christ....

Having said that sometimes I wish we would turn the whole Mid East into a self lighting glass parking lot.

HOLY CRAP!

Thats one of the better posts i've seen......go from the whole religous, i'm a good christian point of view to vapourising the whole desert into a sheet of glass(which i myself have pondered a few times).



ps- seeing as this war has been going on for decades, if not centuries or milleniums, in my opinion we aught to maybee just form a ring around the 2 fighter and see who wins! I mean really, if anythings going to be solved, sad is it may be in todays supposed advanced civilization, one of them has to fall, and hopefully good will triumph over evil! kill em all and let god sort em out!

IT'S GOING TO TAKE AN EXTREMELY POWERFUL ARMY TO BRING WORLD PEACE!

didnt say i was a good christian... just pointing out that the conflict has been going on since forever and probably wont end until never....

has anyone ever thought that maybe we are allies with Israel to keep them from doing exactly what I sometimes think we ought to do? They have the capabilities to wipe Iran, Syria, and the whole hate spewing lot of them off the map.

Well I have to say this has been one of the most interesting posts I have ever read. Great links Wotansvolk! I learned alot that I did not know before. Thanks.I haved to agree with canuck. I am starting to believe that we should just let the mideast duke it out and deal with whoever is left standing. Just surround it and try to keep it contained but I doubt that would be possible. Unfortunately, the Islamic extremists seem to have lumped us in with isreal and now want to "destroy the infidel" along with isreal. So now the US is involved in this centuries old conflict. What a mess. i have no solutions and don't believe any peace plan will ever last. Sooner or later this will blow up in the worlds face and part of me believes we should just get it over with.

This post and my thoughts wander around a bit but I hope you all get my gist.

Doc

Nuke Iran and Syira and let israel deal with hesbola or what ever they are call.

Mohamed's parents were split, one a christian, the other a jew. In his mind, he felt a united religion would bring peace to all, so he started the Islamic brand of religion and killed any and all who did not join him. . Remember the Crusades? The Catholic Church had it right. Be wary of the European tree that already shows it's branches bowing under the strain of massive muslim immigration.

i think a point of view no one is taking is,just from the middle east conflicts look at all the damage enviromentally.there are still oil wells on fire in kuhwait and iraq.lebanon had a bunch of wells blown up recently and their oceans are 10 times exxon valdez and no one is even cleaning it(would you with missles in the air?). the constant struggles are def taking its toll on the med sea.

is this still over religion? gas? land?nuke power? why are we meddling with these fuckers any way?any of them?i know this post is about isreal but my wife asked me yesterday(because of the terrorists busted on the planes) and i find it ironic this post came- "why are they so pissed at us""why are we there" ? i thought for a while about that question and have no answer.i wish someone could tell me?

anyone who knows a little about history ,knows isreal has been doing this for a thousand years,constanly protecting their land (turf) . i think dennis millar said it best about if isreal is the size of a match book and sitting in the middle of a football field (middle east) and the football field is arguing for a 1000 years about taking the land of half the match book . thats isreal.

I'm with Mon Chum Wotan once again.... civilians getting killed en masse is unacceptable - as is making the excuse to make it seem acceptable "well they do it." In that case who's better? You're playing into the mofo terrorists hands by blasting an entire apartment building where suspected enemy presence appears to be at while knowing civilians are there too. How many more p/o recruits worldwide do the homicidal maniac hezbooblas and other terror networks get signing up for their monkey-arsed clans when incidents like that happen? The formidable IDF are now making more precision acquiring of targets after the latest civilian snafus- showing that prior to now, at times they were over-zealous. Keep in mind many Lebanese put the blame for this war on Hezbooblas, so its important to not sway their opinion into a patriotic anti-Israel mode. From what I here too, the Lebanese army may even take a more forceful stance on restraining hezbooblas -of course not too much that another civil war erupts. I have many Lebanese friends; their sole concern is the innocent civilian death toll [I'm sure there are some Israeli concerns too- not many are arguing over Israel's right to clean out the trash along the border-but just more on how it's being done]. I'm sure none of them would overtly resent the IDF taking/wiping out Hezbooblas if the economic infrastructure wasn't decimated, not to mention seeing family members erased. So to answer Wotan's opinion enquiry.... yes- taking out 10 civilians to get a terrorist isn't acceptable when you are one of the most elite/advanced fighting organization in the world - in my opinion.



I think the quote should be changed to more like a matchbook in a very large dry cornfield to really represent current events.






In the past history of catholicism I bet many societies and non-catholic european religions would have had a non-flattering opinion on the Popes straining their lifestyles in the form of persecutions/sponsored colonialism.

You wanna read about a real 'convert to my religion or else' maniac in history, google up this guy- Temur the Lame.

Saw this quote in the local paper

"If Hezbollah was disarmed, the bombing and the shooting of missiles would stop immediately. If Israel was disarmed, the beheading of Jews would begin immediately."

Ya! Newspaper as objective as a KKK dude talkin about black people!!!

Still not sure Israel is doing that only to defend themselves.

I think it's hilarious that Hezbollah has declared victory over Israel after the cease-fire. Aren't they the ones that were begging for a cease fire? LMAO

Wotansvolk...
What do you think Israel should of done?
What would you of done in their place?
Are you one of these people who subscribe to the idea Israel has a right to defend itself as long as they don't do a good job of it.

Maybe strenghten their borders shoot every freakin Hezbollah fighter that come across.
No I think they have the right to defend themselves but not at any cost. They are supposed to have one of the best army and one of the best secret service agencie they should have been able to spot the nemy just along the border and send some special unit their....of course it might have cost more soldier life but at least less innocent people would have died.They wanted to secure their borders just blow around the borders why go blast all of the country!?

“If Muslims claim that we are against violence, why aren’t we demonstrating in the streets against suicide bombings? Why is it so much easier to draw us into protest against a French ban on the hijab, but next to impossible to exorcise ourselves about slavery, stonings and suicide killings? Where’s our collective conscience?”

— Muslim author Irshad Manji29 Lifestyles magazine Summer 2004

Very good question. One I've asked myself.

Junkie

If they demonstrated in the streets? are you fucking nuts? suicide bombers target large bodies of ppl! they would LOVE that! (so would I!!!)

Israel killing civi's? wow they killed a few thousand... wgaf! how many Japanese did we kill in the atomic attacks? tell you what... not HALF as many we killed in fire bombings! how many civi's did we kill in afghanistan and Iraq? more then they did. Wtf, I dont give a shit if they kill all the rag heads over there... let Israel wipe the area and we can have free oil. all they want to do is commit violent acts, as a whole not an individual... as single ppl they are somewhat normal, but if they CHOOSE not to hold their gov accountable, and MAKE them become moral, then I dont care if they die... Men... Women... children.... a like! the old are set in their ways, the young are already corrupted, and if they are not, killing there parents will do it!

agreed

That's the attitude maniacs seek to unleash whatever horrid weapon they possess. Hopefully not, but odds are One day one or more maniacs will have the power to do very vast horrid damage globally; they may have an ounce of morale judgement that prevents them from going through with it but the genocide you callously propose would make a tit-for-tat decision very easy... 'what ye sow, so ye shall reap'.

Remember in that part of the world, their history of freedom seekers going up against oppressive regimes or insane fundamental organizations always invloves the rebellionists and their neighbours and their cities being crushed. In the modern day West many of us are seemingly oblivious to that real-life situation since we have the luxury of generally non-violent voting and freedom of speech against political parties. Look at Iraq. How many dozens of young Iraqi men who CHOSE to sign up in the army and police DIED blown up/shot in recruiting lines!!! Let's not forget those Iraqis dying working side-by-side with foreign agencies trying to rebuild industries/structures beneficial to the local population.

All those 'ragheads' want a normal life like you and me [that term ragheads is equialent to 'blackies/nips/kikes/daygos/chinks- I don't know why many here think it's ok to use that term...] Alot of my friends are arab... some are christian, [ in fact its my euro-born friends expressing anti jewish remarks] many are very liberal or moderate, most of them have family and friends back in Iraq/Lebanon trying to live a life like you and me... a couple of my arab friends even love Bush! The American Revolution was a true struggle... and almost lost because of lack of recruits to continue the long hard struggle... but the army of Patriots persevered. Such an 'ideal' revolution by freedom lovers in the middle east against the hordes of suicidal fundamentalist maniacs in the arab world won't be won by sword or speeches in my opinion; fact is these scumbags need only one bomber to destroy dozens of innocents as 'payback' for demonstrating wanting a 'normal' life-only time and common sense will prevail if at all over there- and not in our lifetime perhaps. In my opinion.

your bud, Hell [glad you're still in MOB btw]