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THE Mechanic
I know Pesking ,Master of disaster,and Genoside Junkie just love new debates so here you go guys and tell us how you really feel.Let the fur fly..LOL...And there off..

"The Mechanic"

Uniformed Mexican Force
Invades Arizona


6501 Greenway Parkway Suite 103-640 Scottsdale, AZ 85254 :: Phone (520) 829-3112
ALERT: Remember the incursion into U.S. territory last week by Mexican gunmen that we emailed you about?
It appears that it was NOT a "chance confrontation" between the Arizona National Guard and untrained illegal immigrants, but a deliberate "perimeter probe" by an infantry-trained, uniformed Mexican force, according to a just-released online report.

The Euphoric Reality blog has learned in exclusive interviews with high-ranking sources within both the Arizona National Guard and the U.S. Border Patrol that the incident the mainstream media calls a "standoff" was in reality a military-style operation, carried out by a unit of Mexican troops dressed in military uniforms, flak jackets, and armed with AK-47s in an apparent operation to probe the border defenses and test the limits of the National Guard troops. Using easily recognizable infantry movement tactics (such as arm and hand signals and flanking maneuvers), the Mexican unit deliberately moved in a military formation across the border from Mexico, while under surveillance by the National Guard and Border Patrol.

WHY ISN'T THIS PAGE ONE NEWS ACROSS AMERICA???

You can be sure of this: the new Democrat-led Congress isn't going to do anything about this. In fact, it already looks like they're ready to refuse to fund the border fence Congress voted to build -- and President Bush signed into law -- last year!

SOMEONE needs to do something -- and now, someone IS: the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is building a REAL border fence along the U.S.-Mexico border!

The Minuteman Border Fence is an extension of the citizens' border security group Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. It was created to put steel in the ground and to demonstrate the feasibility of securing the border by building fencing as a part of the Minuteman Movement, the grassroots initiative that seeks to secure America's sovereign territory against incursion, invasion, and terrorism.

As we can see AGAIN from this news story, the United States is under siege by forces and interests that have the capacity, over time, to destroy our great experiment of responsible self-government.

Members of the MCDC are organizing as citizen volunteers, to safeguard our beloved nation from violence, from sedition, from wholesale attack by those who do not love America and wish to see her destroyed or irremediably altered from a nation of liberty, equality, and justice, and a bastion of western civilization. The Minutemen are recruiting and training volunteer citizens who will stand as patriots for the promise that is, and ever has been, America to build a border fence.

If you are concerned about the chaos upon our broken borders, if you believe America should welcome legal immigration but reject colonization and Balkanization, then we need to join together to help the Minutemen secure the future of our nation for the American people and her posterity.

And a GREAT start is to build a REAL border fence along the Mexican border... to help STOP the "incursions" like this latest one in Arizona!

TAKE ACTION: The new Congress will likely succeed at undoing federal plans to build 700 miles of fence, leaving the Minuteman Border Fence the only real barrier being built. It is therefore imperative that the people of the United States support and build the Minuteman Border Fence themselves -- until this government gets the message and is forced to do its job and fully and competently secure our national border.

Select Here to Donate NOW and Build the Minuteman Border Fence
https://secure.responseenterpries.com/mmfence/?a=691



Genocide Junkie
No debate needed. Send 10,000 troops to the border and tell them to shoot anything coming across. In two weeks we'll never see another illegal trying to cross. I bet you any amount of money you want that you don't walk across Russia's border especially doing military maneuvers. But of course defending our border might infringe on their rights to settle here and reap the benefits of my tax dollars. This problem has passed any point where it can be handled and now very well could be the undoing of America. All the while our elected officials who have our interests at heart (comment smothered in sarcasim) do squat.

Junkie
Barkmann
Genocide Junkie, your 100% right. Im Canadian but i do keep my eye on my friends in the USA.
pezking
I agree with Genocide as well.

I have no idea why this isn't top news? The secular progressive movement seems to keep this stuff out of the media I guess. All and all, I don't have an issue with people bettering their lives and if they're coming to America to get a decent job and provide for their families, more power to them. They need to legalize themselves at some point. I just don't want the criminal element that comes over the border as well. The illegals are also getting more citizen rights than I do... atleast it seems that way at times.

The just started ICE training with the police in my county last week. Hopefully after a few weeks of training we will see some changes. ICE = Immigration and Customs Enforcement. This way, they can arrest and deport in less steps. Right now, the illegals are all over the place and the police can't do much about it till they actually commit a crime in front of the police. Otherwise, no identification, etc. They are too hard to track down unless you don't mind sitting in front of the laundromat or 7-11 all day waiting for them.
Genocide Junkie
Hey Pez if I'm not mistaken even if they were to say be stoped for a traffic violation or a minor offense of some kind your locals can't do anything to them (except the normal). They cannot hold them for INS to come get them etc. It's nuts. I live in an area where they are everywhere. I like you have no problem with someone trying to better themselves. A friend of mine is an executive at Gold Kist which is in the poultry industry. The county I live in is the 3rd largest poultry producer in the nation. Having said that I was asking him about how many he thought were illegal in his plant (which is 85% hispanic) and he wouldnt tell me. He did tell me that he would have someone come work for 6 months with "papers" then leave for a month and another person show up with the same "papers". These companies while they don't exactly try to stop it shouldnt have to be detectives to be able to tell legit paperwork from frauds. It's a real problem as the schools and city infrastructure are not set up for the 15,000 people who are there who have not been tax payers there. All the while there's not much the city gov't can do to get them out. It's a tough situation that's been created by a lack of enforcement of our border. It's really frustrating....

Junkie
Hellfighter
For one thing, look at the budget needed to secure the border as estimated by border authorities... I believe its just a few days added up of what's being spent in Iraq. Can you spell 'M-i-s-d-i-r-e-c-t-i-o-n' of funds Mr.Bush.
Genocide Junkie
Mr. Bush can't spend one red cent w/o congress. And this problem didnt start yesterday, it didnt start last month, hell it didnt start this century. This has been an issue for 20+ years. To lay this at Mr. Bush's feet ignores congress (which actually makes laws by the way) and all the leaders before him (including savior Clinton). Lets see how far the new congress will go to do something. My bet is they won't do anything but give it lip service and talk about what racists we are for wanting to close the border. Wait and see.

Junkie
M@ster of Dis@ster
Do you guys actually believe a "news story" put out by a group that just happens to be trying to build their own fence at the border? This sounds to me like one of the most absurb stories ever. Mexicans "attacking" the US border with military movements!?!?! LOL. Come on! Think about it! If anything even remotely like what is described happened, it was probably 4 guys high on Coke!
Hellfighter
hey MoD smile.gif
Actually there are newly constructed fences up at certain points along the border and from what they're observing, the method does deter illegal crossings- at those points.

hi again Junkie biggrin.gif
As to laying the blame at Bush's feet-that's incorrect. My point is regarding border security in general-NOT about putting up fences as the 'be-all,end-all solution' which the congress wouldn't go for exclusively for their own agendas/reasons-The funding requested for effective border security in general I ranges from $2-20 billion. Some are saying the war in Iraq may end up costing $1-2 trillion. So why Bush is defying; the general consesus of his Generals [who he said he'd listen to and base his own decisions on that]; and many Republican in the Senat and Congress at home; and the vast majority of Americans [repubs and dems]; and the results of the November elections implying a preference for a pull-out strategy; and ignoring the Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan; Why. oh why is he doing a 'Surge'- he did it before and it didn't work- I hope it does work, but the odds are it won't mean a thing in the end- violence will continue as always there until the Iraqis summon enough willpower to work together. The surge will cost soldiers lives needlessly...... and yes MISDIRECTION of financial resources- Bush can put up a better case to spend money on a secure border at home - not just fences.
pezking
I agree on not moving money outside the country and work on what we have here. Hellfighter, you'd better be careful... we might start migrating up to Canada in the next few years if the illegal situation here gets worse. I've been up there several times and I love it... ofcourse it's always on vacation or for hockey/soccer tourneys so I'm having fun regardless. biggrin.gif
Radiation
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pezking
I wouldn't want to push a button to kill all illegal immigrants. Let's say instead, we push the red button to improve the economy and government in Mexico so these people don't have to leave their families and country behind. They'll have more pride in taking a good job in Mexico than having to sneak into the states and be illegal. I'm against illegal immigration, but I can definately empathize with their situation. I'm actually more against the people that are abusing our government and system while being illegal. The hospital bills that I have to pay for with my tax dollars, the gang crime, the unlicensed drivers, etc.
M@ster of Dis@ster
QUOTE(Hellfighter @ 01/12/07 10:09am) *

hey MoD smile.gif
Actually there are newly constructed fences up at certain points along the border and from what they're observing, the method does deter illegal crossings- at those points.



Not saying I didn't believe there were groups building fences. I read that before. And of course it deters illegals at that area, because it is easier for the Mexican to go to the area where there is no fence and cross there! LOL. That seems pretty obvious!

I'm just laughing at the story that implies the "Mexicans" are now making military incursions into the US and that this was a test of the US defences for more miltary-style invasions! The fact the story was basically written by groups so dedicated against illegal immigration their are building their own fences, I think the objectivity of said story might be slightly lacking. Wasn't commenting on the politics of illegal immigration, just that I think this particular story was ludicrious. laugh.gif
Hellfighter
QUOTE(M@ster of Dis@ster @ 01/12/07 5:25pm) *

QUOTE(Hellfighter @ 01/12/07 10:09am) *

hey MoD smile.gif
Actually there are newly constructed fences up at certain points along the border and from what they're observing, the method does deter illegal crossings- at those points.



.............
I'm just laughing at the story that implies the "Mexicans" are now making military incursions into the US and that this was a test of the US defences for more miltary-style invasions! The fact the story was basically written by groups so dedicated against illegal immigration their are building their own fences, I think the objectivity of said story might be slightly lacking. Wasn't commenting on the politics of illegal immigration, just that I think this particular story was ludicrious. laugh.gif


lol, ok dokey, I see what you mean MoD- I'm pretty sure they may be referring to the well organized drug smugglers who are operating in military gear and using similar tactics during their operations- who knows- maybe they are part of the mexican military already.

As for Mexicans in Canada; I'm in tourism related work and we get alot of average-well to do Mexican tourists/families who love it up here when they visit-and they're very humble too. We also have big latino populations in our major cities in Ontario and Quebec too. I can emphathize with you Rad about noise disturbances- but those partying guys in your apartment are punks and most societies have their segments of punks from various backgrounds doing the same thing. I think you're seeing only the type of people living hand to mouth and on the move with adopted customs from their former neighbourhoods, which are played out when living together in large groups- I'm pretty sure any group of 'poor' foreigners starting out in a new country with little going for them have the same living set-up too. Knowing some 'average' mexicans myself I don't see them with those habits which drive me nuts too blink.gif .
Radiation
.
Hellfighter
QUOTE(Radiation @ 01/13/07 9:16am) *
.......... Until the day I rolled in with my AK-47 assualt rifle and my pistol on my side. Then they looked at the ground and I have had no more fans since. One of them was throwing eggs at the door of another white family here in the building. I simply got out some used up brass and dropped a couple of casings down on their doorsteps. The eggs stopped.


Geezus...that sounds easy enough-> I gotta try that; there was me getting nowhere complaining about problem-"neighbours" to 'unmotivated' building managers. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

But seriously Rad, I hope you find the place of your dreams however humble. I finally got a nice apartment with quiet neighbours and a superb landlord - what a difference to the quality of life! rolleyes.gif
Major Malfunction
if anyone gets the chance check out todays st.louis post dispatch newspaper, a palistinian who lives near us was caught with several machine guns, some claymore mines and was caught buying a case of frag grenades! the authorities reported these items were not for terroist attacks but were to be sold to st.louis street gangs! can you imagine a drive by with frag grenades? and what were the claymores for? under the welcome mat of a rival gang house? this guy is out on 50 grand bail and is on the streets again! unsure.gif



Major Malfunction mobrules.gif

Hellfighter
QUOTE(Major Malfunction @ 02/02/07 5:19pm) *
if anyone gets the chance check out todays st.louis post dispatch newspaper, a palistinian who lives near us was caught with several machine guns, some claymore mines and was caught buying a case of frag grenades! the authorities reported these items were not for terroist attacks but were to be sold to st.louis street gangs! can you imagine a drive by with frag grenades? and what were the claymores for? under the welcome mat of a rival gang house? this guy is out on 50 grand bail and is on the streets again! unsure.gif



Major Malfunction mobrules.gif



And how many American kids are knocking each other off per neighbourhood/per city/per year/per high school with all variants of pistols and automatic weapons...... So is the case to be made American kids are home-grown terrorists. If he's out on bail and not in Guantenemo Bay maybe you can believe they are certain he's not a terrorist... I'm not saying he shouldn't be out on bail, but fear-mongering of every arab you hear about in suspect instances helps no-one.
PFC Mustangman
Just in case you don't remember they had Mexican Army troops in New Orleans after the hurricane.When do we need foreign troops to help us?We are training foreign troops over here all the time at our military bases.Here in Texas we have French Pilots learning to fly b1 bombers.They say they are NATO troops.Dutch soilders coming and getting hasmat training for chemical weapons.The country with the most weapons of mass destruction is the U.S.A.If a suitcase nuke goes off over here it will be friendly fire by our own military.








Hellfighter
QUOTE(PFC Mustangman @ 06/19/07 2:14am) *
Just in case you don't remember they had Mexican Army troops in New Orleans after the hurricane.When do we need foreign troops to help us?We are training foreign troops over here all the time at our military bases.Here in Texas we have French Pilots learning to fly b1 bombers.They say they are NATO troops.Dutch soilders coming and getting hasmat training for chemical weapons.The country with the most weapons of mass destruction is the U.S.A.If a suitcase nuke goes off over here it will be friendly fire by our own military.


Well I agree with you there if you are saying we can try and prepare against all the 'obvious' possibilities we want but the strike will end up being from where we least suspected it.








Cpt. Snot Rocket
The reason that neither the Democrats or Republicans have done and will do nothing about the border situation is this: There is an agreemant among the power players in both parties, including Mexico, for the USA to basically absorb Mexico and possibly Canada also.

I know this may sound nuts to many of you, but there are some very powerful facts and issues at play that make this a strong and likely eventuality.

For four years, the President carried on an energetic public relations campaign to promote his plan to privatize part of Social Security, but he kept under White House lock and key the "Totalization" agreement his administration secretly made with Mexico in June 2004. www.tscl.org/NewContent/102800.asp
Totalization is the bureaucratic buzz word for the plan to put millions of illegal Mexican workers into the U.S. Social Security system. They would collect U.S. benefits based on their U.S earnings under false or stolen Social Security numbers plus alleged earnings in Mexico.
The Totalization plan would put millions of Mexicans onto the rolls of the U.S. Social Security system just as our baby-boom generation retires.

Why? Totalization is part of the Council on Foreign Relations five-year plan for the "establishment by 2010 of a North American economic and security community" with a common "outer security perimeter." www.cfr.org/publication/8102/building_a_north_american_community.html The 59-page CFR document (which can claim Bush Administration approval because it is posted on a U.S. State Department website) demands that we "implement the Social Security Totalization Agreement negotiated between the United States and Mexico." The document details plans that describe a common border around all three countries, and free movement of goods, services and people among the three countries.

The CFR plan calls for massive U.S. foreign aid to the other countries. The burden on the U.S. taxpayers will include so-called "multilateral development" from the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank, "long-term loans in pesos," and a North American Investment Fund to send U.S. private capital to Mexico.

It also calls for "a permanent tribunal for North American dispute resolution." (read courts), and allowing Mexican trucks "unlimited access" to the United States.



The best known Americans who are members of the CFR Task Force that wrote the plan for a North American Community are former Massachusetts ® Governor William Weld and Bill Clinton's immigration chief Doris Meissner. Doris Meissner was President Bill Clinton's Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) Administrator.



Consider:

Last year, when the Senate passed the Secure Fence Act 80-19, the House passed it 283-138, and we saw President Bush on television signing it into law. Now we are told the fence will never be built!



Congress ordered the creation of an entry-exit system called US-VISIT back in 1996, and our government spent $1.7 billion to develop the program. In December, the GAO (Government Accountability Office) said an entry-exit system still doesn't exist and the government has abandoned plans to create it.



Clinton signed Executive Order 13166 that requires anyone who receives federal funds (such as doctors and hospitals) to provide all services in foreign languages.



The Security and Prosperity Partnership with Canada and Mexico that was announced by President Bush at Waco in 2005, and reaffirmed at Cancun in 2006, and is now being implemented by 20 Working Groups of the three countries in the U.S. Commerce Department. www.spp.gov



Nuff said....

Cpt. Snot Rocket
Stunned silence? or just in denial? LoL

I just can't see those pesky canuck's toe'ing the line though...he he
THE Mechanic
O man its really kinda nice to see this thread come back to life.

A while back about i think 6 months ago Pezking posted something on the Minuteman project.

So I went to thier site and read a few editorials ect,and agreed with much of what they had to say.

Now I receive tons of junk mail and updates to thier project.



Anyway I noticed you folks enjoyed a lively debate about current affairs,politics,Iraq, and the so called bumper sticker war on terror..lol..yea right.So thats why I posted this subject just to insite you lively thinkers into a debate. And stand by and watch the sparks fly.At first I thought this thread would die.

I myself am not a very good debater nor am i that well read.I always seem to get myself into trouble because,I always react with emotion rather than quoteing firm and justafiable facts that may support my personal position.

Most importantly at least to me, I find it very interesting and enlightening to reading all of your opinions on these issues.I think I learn more by reading and listening to you all.And I get a better sense of other peoples positions and how they see our world of today.And that benifits me, it has opened my eyes,and ears to better understanding and respect of my fellow man and women...I think...lol...In my eye I would call you alI......... TEACHERS......And I thank you for that....It makes no differnts younger or older thier's always something new to learn in this exsistance they call LIFE.



And Snot Rocket your last post ..I'm going to need about 24 hours to digest that...Very frightening if you ask me..



Best to you all,stay well.



"T.M."









Hellfighter
QUOTE(Cpt. Snot Rocket @ 07/17/07 7:17pm) *
Stunned silence? or just in denial? LoL

I just can't see those pesky canuck's toe'ing the line though...he he



Pesky .hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, lol.

All I remember is back in the 1980s [?] when a continental American Free trade deal went into effect our Canuck economy got smashed into its 'double-recession' when many home-grown manufacturers up here picked up their stakes and set up shop for dirt cheap in Mexico.

And don't think the border issue is dead-imo.... you watch and see if border restrictions/walls don't start gaining momentum for their implementation very soon within 2 years.
pezking
I'm in Loudoun county and I'm not sure if it's making national news but our board of supervisors voted unaminously to start enforcing illegals immigration laws in our county. This includes probable cause on pulling cars over and also when they are renewing county stickers or trying to use hospitals/libraries, etc. I'm all for it.
Cpt. Snot Rocket
Yeah right, Pez! And when an patriotic American Officer of the Law pulls over some illegal alien smuggling banned drugs into our country and opens fire on the officer, and the officer shoots back and injures him.

Who do you think will spend the next 20 years in prison for "violating someones rights" with "malicious cruelty"? The American Officer of course!!!!!!

God Have Mercy on the screwed up liberals of this country.
Hellfighter

QUOTE(Cpt. Snot Rocket @ 07/19/07 6:24pm) *
...........

God Have Mercy on the screwed up liberals of this country.


Seems like far-right repubs and neo-cons need all of god's mercy with all the catastrophic screw-ups they've caused in recent years and dim-wittingly would like to enlarge even further.

But there's hope - Bush's confidence is shrinking ever further to below 30%. So that means alot -alot- of repubs are veering away from the nuttier blowhards in their flock.

Why didn't Bush give a pardon to those police officers instead of that goon from his administration in the cia agent leak scandal he let off as a 'hush' gesture. Now we see Cheney and Gonzalez laughable latest antics, and Bush's overzealous use of executive privileges making a mockery of the constitution and smearing all the functions that were set-up to make sure elected officials remember they are there to serve the people- not act like rambo demi-gods. God have mercy on those that think the Bush's administration is doing a great job.

So do you feel safer now knowing that all indications point to the 'real' al quaeda along the Pakistan/afghan border where Bush took his eye off -in favour of rediverting finate resources to Iraq combatting the expendable 'diversionary' bands psycopaths of quasi-Al quaeda entering Iraq from Syria- he took the bait as only a foolhardy gambler would do. Now real al quaeda are bouncing back off the ropes we were pounding them on a few years ago and all intelligence are saying they are reassembling to strike -REGARDLESS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN IRAQ AND ITS CIVIL WAR.

Now that is a neo-con repub screw-up.
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