Since we have a large variety of people in our clan. I would like to know what all of your thoughts are on Bush. Please give some examples of why you think the way you do on him.
Full Version: Politics
I think he's done a better job in the second term than in the first. The first term was all about saying things to get re-elected. I'm not going to bash the guy at all, I just think that the country and possibly the rest of the free world needs a President more like FDR. Someone that is decisive and knows what's going on. Years from now, looking back... I'm not sure Bush will be looked at kindly as a "great" president. He'll be known for 9/11 and pushing anti-terrorism, not much else.
Worst President ever.... 
I like Spartan's reply, but you should explain more as to why.
I guess there are many reasons I dislike Bush. One to start with here is him cutting healthcare for veterans. Have any of you been to a VA hospital lately?
I guess there are many reasons I dislike Bush. One to start with here is him cutting healthcare for veterans. Have any of you been to a VA hospital lately?
With the recent news of the VA hospitals, they've been turning up all sorts of info on how Reagan was the last president to actually do anything for Vets. Clinton and both Bush's have screwed the money going there.
From my point of view (a very distant one.. 
) Bush, or republicans in general, are more focused on foreign matters and politics. Democrats are more concerned about domestic issues. But I wonder, why is there so much fuzz around Bush? Even though one may say 100 times that Bush is an idiot it doesn't become more true for that matter. He is a bit of a cowboy, but he's brave and determined. He got 9/11 right in his face and he has diligently handled it. He has cut all financial resorces for al-Qaida and captured almost everyone in the leadership (just missing the big rat). And rember Al-qaida haven't produced anything after 9/11. So he must have been doing something correct. Not every decision he has done is worth a "medal of honor", but all-in-all I think he done a good job.
That said I now very little about your domestic situation, except that US economy are in serious trouble. And I guess Bush have to take some responsibility to that.......
) Bush, or republicans in general, are more focused on foreign matters and politics. Democrats are more concerned about domestic issues. But I wonder, why is there so much fuzz around Bush? Even though one may say 100 times that Bush is an idiot it doesn't become more true for that matter. He is a bit of a cowboy, but he's brave and determined. He got 9/11 right in his face and he has diligently handled it. He has cut all financial resorces for al-Qaida and captured almost everyone in the leadership (just missing the big rat). And rember Al-qaida haven't produced anything after 9/11. So he must have been doing something correct. Not every decision he has done is worth a "medal of honor", but all-in-all I think he done a good job. That said I now very little about your domestic situation, except that US economy are in serious trouble. And I guess Bush have to take some responsibility to that.......
Good summary Kleerance.
Republicans are more for big business and small government... but I can see why foreign matters can play into it as most of them have there money in ventures outside of the US. Cheney for example was trying to get an oil pipeline put through Afghanistan for years and didn't get it through till we sent troops over there. Kinda wierd eh? I think the main issue with the politics in the US right now is that most politicians are extreme right or extreme left... to the point now that Democrats are saying they aren't going to hold debates during the primaries, etc. It's crazy how one small thing you could say can potentially ruin your election bid. In my opinion, the Republicans are all about getting the rich, richer... big business and tax loopholes. The Democrats are all about everyone in the country except the legal citizens that live here, lol. Hillary, I hate her, has some good ideas for health care and schooling... the only problem is, they won't work unless you make us a socialist country. She wants to feed and clothe all the illegal immigrants but not help out the middle class, which makes up majority of the US population.
Republicans are more for big business and small government... but I can see why foreign matters can play into it as most of them have there money in ventures outside of the US. Cheney for example was trying to get an oil pipeline put through Afghanistan for years and didn't get it through till we sent troops over there. Kinda wierd eh? I think the main issue with the politics in the US right now is that most politicians are extreme right or extreme left... to the point now that Democrats are saying they aren't going to hold debates during the primaries, etc. It's crazy how one small thing you could say can potentially ruin your election bid. In my opinion, the Republicans are all about getting the rich, richer... big business and tax loopholes. The Democrats are all about everyone in the country except the legal citizens that live here, lol. Hillary, I hate her, has some good ideas for health care and schooling... the only problem is, they won't work unless you make us a socialist country. She wants to feed and clothe all the illegal immigrants but not help out the middle class, which makes up majority of the US population.
In a nutshell, Republicans stand for indepence. By that I mean live within one's means and don't stand around waiting for a handout when things get tough. We all have the opportunity to make more money one way or another. Just depends how much of ourselves we want to invest in ourselves. A temporary second job till we get back on our feet. Going back to school to learn a trade that has a better chance of producing a higher paycheck. No eating dinner out for a given time. Shorter or no vacations or new cars for a year or two. A socialistic society means higher taxes...much higher because the money has to come from somewhere. I'm all for smaller government and bigger business. Let's not forget how most of us get a paycheck. And let's face it, businesses never pay taxes no matter the percentage. Every penny of tax burden and overhead gets passed right on to the consumer. So the consumer either pays more in taxes or pays a higher price for the goods. And there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's called capitalism. It's what keeps this country running. I'll take that over the alternative any day of the week.
Oh ya, almost forgot what the topic was...I like Bush.
-Pain
Oh ya, almost forgot what the topic was...I like Bush.
-Pain
I don't want higher taxes! For many of you that live outside of the US, not sure if you know the illegal immigrant issue that is going on now. I don't mind that people are coming here to improve their lives with better jobs and opportunities, but they're not registering. So let's put it this way, whenever an illegal needs to go to the hospital, it's FREE for them... yet, the citizens like myself still have to pay my way and my health insurance. Then on top of that, taxes go up so we have money to cover the illegals when they need to see a doctor. How does that make any sense? Now Bush is moving in towards an amnesty program... I hope it works. It didn't work well when Reagan did it. Atleast if they are registered, they can pay taxes too.
The tax issue with illegals is just the tip of the iceberg. A lot of their earned money goes right back to their country so they can retire there. I know, I've worked with many of them over the last few decades. That in itself dilutes the economy. It is a can of worms big time.
-Pain
-Pain
Hey Major,
I own a business and your are not correct with the respect to taxes. Businesses take the brunt of taxes. We match penny for penny the taxes that employees pay every paycheck. Employees file at the end of the year and if they were claiming 0 to get a larger refund at the end of the year, good for them..... Bad for the company because we can not file for the refund. There was a huge waste of the companies money! Then we pay property tax for our building, not to mention all the permits we need to pay for to run a business in the town we operate in. Then, even after taxing my pay, then at the end of the year, we have to pay taxes on what the company made. Do you realize that a company basically pays 50% of what it makes in taxes???? This is why companies are always looking for ways to write off things. Now, if some of the laws were in place that the Dems have been pushing for with big breaks for companies with regards to payroll tax breaks, that is a win win situation. The companies can then offer higher pay to employees because they will be charged less in taxes, then more jobs, and more taxes in general to the government because more people paying based on higher incomes.
I own a business and your are not correct with the respect to taxes. Businesses take the brunt of taxes. We match penny for penny the taxes that employees pay every paycheck. Employees file at the end of the year and if they were claiming 0 to get a larger refund at the end of the year, good for them..... Bad for the company because we can not file for the refund. There was a huge waste of the companies money! Then we pay property tax for our building, not to mention all the permits we need to pay for to run a business in the town we operate in. Then, even after taxing my pay, then at the end of the year, we have to pay taxes on what the company made. Do you realize that a company basically pays 50% of what it makes in taxes???? This is why companies are always looking for ways to write off things. Now, if some of the laws were in place that the Dems have been pushing for with big breaks for companies with regards to payroll tax breaks, that is a win win situation. The companies can then offer higher pay to employees because they will be charged less in taxes, then more jobs, and more taxes in general to the government because more people paying based on higher incomes.
QUOTE(Major.Pain @ 03/16/07 10:43pm) 
The tax issue with illegals is just the tip of the iceberg. A lot of their earned money goes right back to their country so they can retire there. I know, I've worked with many of them over the last few decades. That in itself dilutes the economy. It is a can of worms big time.
-Pain
This is not a unique US problem. In Europe we have the same issue (the immigrants just come from other countries). What worries me in that matter is the fact that the immigants are so many now, that if you want to win the local election in Oslo - you have to get the immigrants on your side. Thats not fair IMO. It's like you have invited guests to your house. And then suddenly its not you who is the boss in your home it's the majority of your guests...I can't blame the immigrants they just following the rules. But I strongly disagree with the socialist goverment (Norway has a socialist goverment) who has let this happen....
-Pain
unfortunately, the traditional stereotypes (Democrats: Big Government vs Republicans: Big Business) is not to applicable today. 30, 40 years ago, there were two distinct parties, each one with its own color spectrum from Radical on the left to Reactionary on the right. Today's political reality, thanks in part to instant global communication (vis a vie the internet) is: Liberals versus Conservatives. During the 80's and 90's, many of the Democratic Party's conservative membership embraced Republican values, especially with the Clintonian views on the Military. The disappearance of the Moral Majority (a big wheel in the 80's) combined with shared party views on topics like Pro-Choice (women's right to abortion or other options) have weakened both parties in my opinion, only because rather than voting for a platform (the traditional view) it is now voting for a particular person (and with our society thats means a very expensive Beauty contest). Plus, candidates and members often change their positions like the wind changes direction (look at Hillary for that one....."mining the jewish vote in NY, gets elected, then is seen giving Yasser Arafat a huge hug in public"..... so nothing is clearly defined within the party structure, except for the fact that it is a two party system, and will be for the forseeable future.
Any incoming President has two immediate dilemma's: The Previous Administrations policys and directives, and the BUREAUCRACY. Classic example of the first part is JFK and Bay of Pigs invasion. The Eisenhower Administration, and the powerful republican-big business behemoth behind them (this is an era that defined the current stereotype view of the GOP) had begun, at the end of Eisenhower's Presidency, a move to oust the Fledgling Castro from Cuba (coincidentally, our government was playing both sides in the Castro-Batista struggle....check out the history channel for more info on that...).
In those days you had a popular president, an unpopular but intelligent vice-president (Nixon) and one of the most powerful cabinets of the 20th century (the Dulles Brothers). The CIA was in their heyday: complete Executive level support, and the president could, through the use of executive orders, overthrow two-bit commie dictators without support of the congress at will (Dominican Republic, our involvement in Nicaragua, etc.) Castro seized power in 1959, and then declined our "assistance" with his new government, and joined with Stalin and the USSR. Commies right next door. Thus, in 1960, a plan to oust Castro was formed and readied for action. The 1960 election was actually very very close....Kennedy had a lot of "skeleton's in the closet" (his Dad made a ton of money from Prohibition bootlegging, his dad was also Pro-Nazi too.....) A fateful debate between a very ill from a combination of a bad cold and jet lagged- Richard M Nixon, [who unfortunately also opted for "no makeup" at the debate] who had just finished the first (and only, to this date) ALL 50 STATE election tour and his opponent, a Youthful, camera mugging smooth talking orator John F. Kennedy, the debate made people reconsider voting for "Tricky Dick". Anyways, the Nation's first Catholic President was elected, and installed into office in Febuary, 1961, right before Bay of Pigs was set to start.....what would you do in his shoes?
So each new administration is faced with previous administration's actions and ongoing operations (like Vietnam, for instance) and has to find its own way. But it takes time. Our Government is run by Career Bureaucrats (think of them as tenured professors in Universities or even Supreme Court Justices). Presidents, Congressmen, Senators, they come and go (some of them at least) but the government worker, the staff, is hired, and typically stays until they die or retire. Bureaucratic mindset is monolithic, and therefore, very very resistant to change, though it does occur slowly....
The Clinton Administration and their Pro-active ACLU stance made racial and ethnic profiling taboo.....much to the chagrin of our National Watchdogs, like the FBI, NSA and NRO, (CIA handles, traditional inter-national, not INTRA-national intelligence). Poor communication and outright "red-tape bureaucratic garrote's" strangled any chance of stopping Bin Laden and Company from preparing for "9/11".
So Bush had a similar situation to the one that faced Kennedy, except that, due to the nature of the bureaucracy in 2001 and the deteriorating/debilatating effect of ACLU policies on Intelligence gathering within our borders, and the total breakdown of communication between said Intel Organizations, Bush has had to think on his feet with regard to current world status from that point on. Tough job to do.
Leadmagnet.
Any incoming President has two immediate dilemma's: The Previous Administrations policys and directives, and the BUREAUCRACY. Classic example of the first part is JFK and Bay of Pigs invasion. The Eisenhower Administration, and the powerful republican-big business behemoth behind them (this is an era that defined the current stereotype view of the GOP) had begun, at the end of Eisenhower's Presidency, a move to oust the Fledgling Castro from Cuba (coincidentally, our government was playing both sides in the Castro-Batista struggle....check out the history channel for more info on that...).
In those days you had a popular president, an unpopular but intelligent vice-president (Nixon) and one of the most powerful cabinets of the 20th century (the Dulles Brothers). The CIA was in their heyday: complete Executive level support, and the president could, through the use of executive orders, overthrow two-bit commie dictators without support of the congress at will (Dominican Republic, our involvement in Nicaragua, etc.) Castro seized power in 1959, and then declined our "assistance" with his new government, and joined with Stalin and the USSR. Commies right next door. Thus, in 1960, a plan to oust Castro was formed and readied for action. The 1960 election was actually very very close....Kennedy had a lot of "skeleton's in the closet" (his Dad made a ton of money from Prohibition bootlegging, his dad was also Pro-Nazi too.....) A fateful debate between a very ill from a combination of a bad cold and jet lagged- Richard M Nixon, [who unfortunately also opted for "no makeup" at the debate] who had just finished the first (and only, to this date) ALL 50 STATE election tour and his opponent, a Youthful, camera mugging smooth talking orator John F. Kennedy, the debate made people reconsider voting for "Tricky Dick". Anyways, the Nation's first Catholic President was elected, and installed into office in Febuary, 1961, right before Bay of Pigs was set to start.....what would you do in his shoes?
So each new administration is faced with previous administration's actions and ongoing operations (like Vietnam, for instance) and has to find its own way. But it takes time. Our Government is run by Career Bureaucrats (think of them as tenured professors in Universities or even Supreme Court Justices). Presidents, Congressmen, Senators, they come and go (some of them at least) but the government worker, the staff, is hired, and typically stays until they die or retire. Bureaucratic mindset is monolithic, and therefore, very very resistant to change, though it does occur slowly....
The Clinton Administration and their Pro-active ACLU stance made racial and ethnic profiling taboo.....much to the chagrin of our National Watchdogs, like the FBI, NSA and NRO, (CIA handles, traditional inter-national, not INTRA-national intelligence). Poor communication and outright "red-tape bureaucratic garrote's" strangled any chance of stopping Bin Laden and Company from preparing for "9/11".
So Bush had a similar situation to the one that faced Kennedy, except that, due to the nature of the bureaucracy in 2001 and the deteriorating/debilatating effect of ACLU policies on Intelligence gathering within our borders, and the total breakdown of communication between said Intel Organizations, Bush has had to think on his feet with regard to current world status from that point on. Tough job to do.
Leadmagnet.
Bush??? I like bush... Aint nothing like Bush, cept maybe the indy 500.
Spartan is correct. GW Bush is the worst president ever. He has squandered this country's honor, blood, and treasure, and he is actively running what little is left into the ground as well. His presidency may be the nail in the coffin for the USA ever being the respected super-power it has always been. He should forever remain as ashamed of himself as so many in the world are of him.
Face it...We all like a President who agrees with our own ideology. Therefore, we will never agree on who is the worst or greatest.
On a different note: If Al-Quida detonates an nuclear device in an American city, suddenly everyone agrees Bush was right all along.
And don't be mistaken, this is a VERY REAL possibility.
On a different note: If Al-Quida detonates an nuclear device in an American city, suddenly everyone agrees Bush was right all along.
And don't be mistaken, this is a VERY REAL possibility.
Nothing,
The point I was making was that businesses will pass on to the consumer any and all incurred overhead including taxes. Hence in a roundabout way the consumer pays the taxes through higher prices. Business is going to make a profit. It has to. It has to support shareholders, employees and itself. Say you purchase a second home and rent it out. Who pays the mortgage and the insurance and the property tax? Why the homeowner of course. Where does he get the money to pay those things? The renter. He passes the burden onto the renter. The homeowner is just the middleman. Just like business is the middleman between the consumer and the government. The government is going to get theirs, make no mistake. I'm an executive in a construction development company and I know how difficult it is to stay in business and keep everyone happy and employed. Lots of pressure and stress but we do what is necessary so we can keep our employees working and put a few extra dollars back into the business so it can grow. Potato, potahto, lol.
Oh ya, I still like Bush.
-Pain
The point I was making was that businesses will pass on to the consumer any and all incurred overhead including taxes. Hence in a roundabout way the consumer pays the taxes through higher prices. Business is going to make a profit. It has to. It has to support shareholders, employees and itself. Say you purchase a second home and rent it out. Who pays the mortgage and the insurance and the property tax? Why the homeowner of course. Where does he get the money to pay those things? The renter. He passes the burden onto the renter. The homeowner is just the middleman. Just like business is the middleman between the consumer and the government. The government is going to get theirs, make no mistake. I'm an executive in a construction development company and I know how difficult it is to stay in business and keep everyone happy and employed. Lots of pressure and stress but we do what is necessary so we can keep our employees working and put a few extra dollars back into the business so it can grow. Potato, potahto, lol.
Oh ya, I still like Bush.
-Pain
QUOTE(steel @ 03/16/07 5:20pm)
Spartan is correct. GW Bush is the worst president ever. He has squandered this country's honor, blood, and treasure, and he is actively running what little is left into the ground as well. His presidency may be the nail in the coffin for the USA ever being the respected super-power it has always been. He should forever remain as ashamed of himself as so many in the world are of him.
Why Do you guys think the middle-east Hates us? They don't hate America they Hate Bush.....
News flash! They don't hate us because of Bush. This stuff has been going down for decades and a quick reminder that 9/11 was planned out way before Bush took office. The huge problem is that WE ARE NOT muslims and they feel obligated to destroy anyone who isn't muslim. My thoughts, we should have an international muslim conversion day where we all convert to faiths of islam. Then we can ask, what now?
I really meant that as a joke lol.
'm not going to talk about Bush. Instead I want you to think about a word. I think it sums up about 95% of the people in our nation today and explains why we are where we are. That word is entitled. Meaning belief in the right or claim to something.
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