This one's nauseating;
Regardless of whoever the leader is/party they represent, if they're committed to spending hundreds of billions of dollars in a 'war effort', a large chunk of that should be set aside to fully and unconditionally accomodate the needs of its frontline fighters during and after their service. Where are the neo-cons/Bush admin and their 'support the troops' rhetoric now sticking up for vets on this issue you'll read- disgusting.....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071108/ap_on_...Ys14ZD7TKBH2ocA
Can I suggest you who are able to do so, drop your Governors a line or two on this. It's not right at all.

Its just not now, but even the Gulf War troops were treated like nobodys.They" The Elites" abuse you then say they don't know you or what your talking about.On this report it will open your eyes.You have to watch the whole tape to get the jest of the Gulf War troubles of the troops.

Also view all 1-7 to get history of Mideast Oil. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz2O0EkithY

Very informative clips. Just like the Soviet spread across the globe was called the 'domino effect' [i think], this encircling the oil regions should be called something like the 'garrot doctrine' -slow strangulation to control the area.
I'm not surprised though. The Gulf War syndrome as it was formerly known was a huge coverup back even over a decade ago with the Govt. using time to kill people's interest in the madness. Nothing surprises me about the gutless antics of most politicians either. Yesterday I was at City Hall with a group of my peers seeking to get the city to act on something simple. At first they were shrugging their shoulders in their resolve to deny getting this easy issue resolved - only when the group get on the verge of riot-ish/ very rowdy did then the city reps. suddenly find a way to proceed with giving a go-ahead. They're a bunch of lazy-arsed ponces. I hate sounding anarchistic but I understand how bloody revolutions catch fire so easily.

Click to view attachmentMaybe Major Rudy can explain it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni3Jd3RuqOU

Care for Veterans is always difficult and challenging. Without exception they are all hero's. However, not ONE expects the the country they serve to care for their every need till they die of old age.

The military is obviuosly a job also. However, if they decide to quit that job or are not accepted back then they need to find another.

I understand about the stress that comes from combat, But you are assuming that every single one of these homeless people served in combat. This apears highly unlikely. There are 5 to 10 people in the military to support every single soldier that is in combat. How do you know that all those homeless weren't desk jockeys, mechanics, quality inspectors, chef's, mailmen, etc, etc.

You make it seem so easy Hellfighter: 'Just supply a huge chunk of money and Shazam, No more homeless'.

I read thru the article and there are many people supporting these people, some are in college, some in shelters, etc. Do we do enough, no I don't think so. However, I want to see a plan.


BTW: How come I can't seem to recall or even find any info on a major problem with thousands of homeless vet's on the streets after WWII? War trauma is the same for every war. So what happened to them?
They must have toughed it out and made something of themselves. After all, many of these people were drafted from jobs of teaching, painting, office work. They seemed to have not gone homeless after the war because of trauma. Truly the Greatest Generation!

It was a different time snot. basicly any man who could serve went over seas during ww2 and the woman worked here in the us.when the men came back after ww2 it was alot easier then when the vietnam vets came back ,got spit on and had to deal with a tough job market and economy in the 70s. my dad was in vietnam and i remember how tough it was all the way till i was ten (1980)things were real tough! for the record ,alot of the interviews with the ww2 vets talked about how alot of the guys marriages ended because of all the post war problems,so i dont think things were so easy for the ww2 vets either.

did the gulf war even happen? that seems to be the thought of that war but i have a few personal friends who were messed up pretty bad from that war/conflict ,there was action and it did happen.



i had posted in forums of a real good friend of mine.he was a kid who had wealthy parents but was fucking up alot ,drugs,drinking ,crime etc.. so he joined the army and quickly cleaned his act up . i believe he was in the rangers (not exactly sure) and when it came down to the iraq war his unit was the first to attack ramadi,i found this out from his mother because its hard to get info while the battle just started.during the battle he made the front page here in florida because he was handing food to a refugee,ill see if i can upload the pic. after ramadi his tour came up and he reinlisted without hesitation and it was mandatory for him to go state side for a certain amount of time before going back to action.within a week he got married to a girl and his mother started to wonder if he was ok,then they broke up 3 weeks later. he was about to go back and went to his mothers here in fla fro 2 weeks and all hell broke loose.he started doing weird things ,which made her nervous and then one night she came home and he was in the kitchen with a knife and he didnt know who she was,she literaly had to call the police to restrain him as he thought every one was the enemy.they were STILL going to send this kid back in 3 days! his mother had to wait outside of a senators office and beg him to help her ,which he did (can you believe it?) and got him delayed .long story short hes still fucked up but hes here.

it might be hard to work other jobs if your delusional. if youve been killing talaban and iraqs (and doing it well from what i here) it might be hard to work at mcdonalds with akbar .

Here's an interesting perspective on ptsd and how it affects folks.....might hold some answers to understanding some of the why and how.

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/mental_health/ptsd.htm

If you can't see those stats as alarming Mr.Rocket....well - isn't it strange or at the least reflective of a bigger issue needing investigation. It's fine to call up stats that sound rosey for people who want to be helped, but with the high proportion of distress disorders of this conflict somethings very wrong. AWOLS are going up too.

WW2 is very simple-you answered it yourself in your research; - the govt. was right there for all the vets - with very enticing re-education and job training programs after the war.

Furthermore, I wouldn't say war trauma is the same for every war at all.
Some wars called for a total society effort- meaning everyone had a more-or-less similar stake in a war effort. Some wars -like the Iraqi war don't have that total understanding- therefore when the vets return they feel disassociated due to most in society not even wanting to hear about war experiences from vets-or if they do, they'll likely make the dumbest comment to really push away that vet into feeling withdrawing from opening up further. I'm not saying vets returned from past wars didn't have trauma or reclusive issues but that's likely for 3 reasons;
First-> ptsd-war stress wasn't even a diagnosed issue back then - look at all the soldiers being shot for cowardice and desertion in WW1 by all sides because poncey officers had no idea about the involuntary nature of succumbing to war stress.
Secondly-> some wars were thought of as 'glorious' by their society with victories and fighting in a war was considered boisterous deed - Napoleonic Wars was a good example despite the carnage of those battles.
Third-> Some wars were considered a profession that ranked with a far better esteem attached to it than most employment available in societies-not to mention pensions. So military would consider themselves with some sense of prestige and not as destitute as their fellow citizens.
I wouldn't say any generation of war servers are greater than another- they're all great.

I'm not sure what you think by my making something easy- hundreds of billions of dollars are being thrown around for a grand adventure of a war, with billions more being scalped off the top by war profiteers. Don't you figure it wouldn't be a stretch to commit some miniscule portion of that amount to hire people to go after these homeless vets and get them back in order- of course you can't make horse drink, but you can do your best to lead them to water- my point is no such leading is seriously going on- and that's the same ugly story being retold by vets/military being forgotten.
I'll wager the majority of homeless war vets you see were actual fighting vets who've mentally disassociated themselves from society. We're also seeing a war where armour for troops has cut down on fatalities in place of drastically increasing the number of wounded in society-perhaps they receive care, but this may be one reason for the increase of homeless vets-ie, the number of depressed amputees/head trauma individuals who feel they can't function in regular society anymore has increased.

Hey Sabot and UD - long time no see old chums

I'm all for investiogation and getting facts. Your into "wagering" what the problem might be and throwing money at it with out any sense of direction. I completely disagree with that analisys.

I appreciate your discussion about veterans of different wars but PTSD doesn't care what war you served in. Rememeber WWII and Vietnam troops were drafted, recent wars are all volunteer so which group would you expect to have more problems dealing with the war?

Since the USA spends a vast fortune on Defense and actually does something about the villians that walk the earth, why doesn't Canada, Mexico, and nearly every country in Europe and the rest of the world spend some money to take care of OUR vet's. THEY don't have to spend any money on defense because the USA protects THEM all!

"...hundreds of billions of dollars are being thrown around for a grand adventure of a war..."
Ahhh, so here it is. Your obviously using this issue just to beat the 'end the war/Saddam was nice guy' drum so I am not going to discuss this issue further.

Have a good day.

What cost in investigation- isn't that the purpose- where is wagering a factor in an investigation- that makes no sense. If a solution or problem can be revealed by an investigation then that sounds priceless to me if it helps find out why that startling statistic of homeless vets is so. Wagering has no bearing in that concept- what is your basis for that- how much is being 'wagered' in such an investigation?

Mr.Rocket get your facts straight... Canada has an army heavily engaged and active in Afghanistan in offensive operations against a restrengthening Taliban foe. Canada's been in the Balkans, the Gulf War, the Korean War and has been in joint patrolling operations/stragies with the USA in the Arctic. Stop misguiding yourself that its just the USA policing the world.
USA knows it can't do everything alone.... look at WW2 - if the Japs didn't propel the USA into the war, Germany would've been firing nukes over the ocean at some point. The last I heard the Brits beat back the German invasion plan in 1940 while standing alone.

You claim/infer the US Force of WW2 were induced by drafts alone- I would argue that point because although isolationist fervour was solid prior to Pearl Harbour, that spun around 180 degrees after. The war effort was by and large volunteer in its comparison to zeal and fighting ability not to mention desire to go to war to beat back the menace at the doorsteps..

You're not helping yourself by basing your arguments on untruths. There are vast numbers of multinational forces operating across the globe.... there are expansive networks of intelligence agents of many nations also at work fighting these 'villains'. So lay off the 'whole world on my shoulders' song please.
The rest of the world is spending money on their own vets and active forces - show me your revealing stats showing which democratic countries are playing lackey and have no budget and no army supposedly since your envisioning nobody else has an army or vets.

What/who is the USA protecting Canada from? Please tell me this phantom message you received that I can relay it to our Prime Minister right away? And precisely how much is Canada spending on defencve- where is this explosive fact you discovered that says Canada is spending nothing on defence???

Where did I say Sadam was a 'nice guy' or even remotely imply it- what's the argument for ending the war have to do with support for Sadam. You're right 'hundreds of billions of dollars is an error - it'll be well over a trillion by the time is all said and done. btw, it's Bush and his admin spending vast amounts into the Defence - last election I heard most Americans wanted out of the war sooner than later. You may delude yourself that 'foreigners' talking anti-Bush equates with anti-American but take a deep breath and read your stats to see 70% of Americans want Bush to end/scale down drastically his grand adventure -ie, enough's enough.

And what's with the '"so there we have it" line' -lol- look back at my threads going way back - I always said why I first was for the war and then made my own assessment on the foolery of 'the grand adventure'- no surprise at all on my basis for the opinions I express.

ps. I'm having a great day and you're flying off on tangeants [ apparently with no valid retorts left to argue correctly -which I'd gladly accept if you could prove such points]

i know the retort is going ot be good,lol .

I have tremendous respect for Canada, the UK, Poland, Australia and several other countries. They have always been supportive of the US! God Bless them!

Defense Spending
USA = $650 Billion Rest of the Entire World = $500 Billion

Canada $9.8 Billion - Population 33M 15th in the world
Netherlands $9.4 Billion - Population 16M


Although accurate statistics are difficult to get:
US Homeless is about 0.3%
Candadian Homeless is about 0.6%
**So at the very least - Canada has just as big of a problem and yet your concerned about the US?

There's your facts. Lkike I said, your only using this issue to bash the USA War Policy on Terorist.

I'm pleased your having a good day...LoL...Continue to do so!

Earth to Cpt.Rocket....bzzzzzzzz, ground control to...
Well seeing as this is the War on Terror Forum, no mystery you'll find criticisms about war strategy here. You'd probably like to see 99% goody 2 shoes posts in this forum, but I'm just giving my opinions on things revolving around fatally flawed issues imho.... and that perhaps shares a new perspective for others.

It's good googling you've done with bringing up stats there- however.... how they help your arguments you've failed to show,
What are comparisons without your train of thought or using them to make a point;
If I have no stats of crime in a certain area I can claim no crime exists there.

I won't argue with your stats though- in actuality Canada's homeless numbers/ratio could be higher than your top figures given. {My quick stats show around 750,000 homeless out of 300 mil. USA - around 250,000 out of 30 mil. Canada therefore the rate is beyond double by your stats. I'd venture to say our 'general' homeless situation appears to be WORSE than in the USA.
Reason #1-
We have a crushing cost of living up here [one of the worst of all western/developed nations -and I'm not playing favourites just because I live here if you assume I'm offended by the stats in its higher rating compared to the USA.. I don't like at all how our local politicians ignore the homeless problem and seem more inclined to leaving it up to charitable organizations to plug the gaps rather than themselves going after the issues driving people onto the streets,
That being said, I still have no clue how general homelessness stats you brought up supports any argument you make about vets homelessness -actually what is your point?
Are you defending Bush when he says 'support the troops' but there's that many homeless vets-by choice or not is beside the issue- in fact by choice would indicate a need for therapeutic needs directed their way..

Why would you bring up stats showing astronomical figures for US Defence spending when your first posting claims the US admin is in no position to spend $$$ on looking after/investigating vets who feel left out of normal society. If so SO much less is spent by the rest of the world, then a piece of that pie could be redistributed in a direct beneficial way. Your stats show the US admin as overspending.

What's the mystery in my bashing the Bush admin war policy- I say war policy because his grand adventure into Iraq wasn't a direct attack on terrorism. He and the neocons had fears not facts as their basis to go to war. Recall I've said many times in my posts of old how I was initially for going into Iraq and defended criticisms by others in the early stages... now I deduced a different point of view- so add this to that 'there you have it' list for me.... I'm against the war policy because it turned out NOT to be a war on terror policy. If you can't see how Taliban land and Pakistan is the true hotbed of terrorist activity/potential disaster for world peace- then that's up to you.

Finally, if you can see how we can make big $$$ going on a circuit debating at universities or similar please let me know asap, I need some quick cash for xmas prezzies.....

ps. since you care, I had another good day today

Click to view attachmentThe Army loves you along with the Commander and Chief.Join up now so when your disabled they can say "just kickum to the curb".Short change them on their benefits.

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18492376

IF you don"t think all of these politicians are alike just see who was appointed by Bush,is no other than Donna Shalala who was in Bill Clinton's cabinet.Bush Clinton Bush Clinton"The New World Order".

Yes agreed- this was obvious during the Walter Reed scandal... the Dems and some Repubs acted shocked and outraged at hearing the latest story break on the crummy situation there, yet they fully knew for years things were very bad at that care facility.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/01/kiley-walter-temporary/
a thread/blog on the subject;
http://news.aol.com/elections-blog/2007/03...r-reed-problem/


Anyway, worst of all- last night in the State of the Union speech the audience jumped up clapping every 10 seconds after every fantasy promise Bush declared. This went on endlessly it seems - did he make any promises to address the problems of homeless vets -and the large influx of mental issues amongst vets returning from Iraq. Nope - he didn't.

Some progress though;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/12/...in3253614.shtml

woooh- this was a good thread in its day - Anyway, a sad update to add to it;

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24183188&GT1=43001

the latest horror story;
http://wbztv.com/national/veterans.affairs...e.2.706452.html

debates;
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../MNQK109AA7.DTL

http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.js...d=1209134503680

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/260837.php

A way to start fixing the mess up;
contact your politicians to get the G.I bill expansion plans passed -> which McCain has no inclination of putting through. Inexplicable!
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=4652517&page=1