http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=73a_1181328755

That's a bizarre post you made - you linked war on terror by this thread's title to this pre-war link as if to make it sound like the war on the tyrant was all about getting rid of a tyrant for that purpose- Even more odd is although you want to discredit cnn, the post itself explains why cnn was hiding that info - in order to not jeopordize the lives of informants in Iraq [ie, ending up hacked to pieces and delivered in a bag back to relatives [ I've heard this was not the only case of that type of monstrosity].

It's no secret that atrocities on this large scale was going on, even back in late 80s when Rumsfeld was chumily smiling and shaking hands with saddamned himself. You can bet alot of covering up was going on prior to the war even by the CIA so as not to put the lives of operatives and anti-saddamned opponents working secretively in Iraq at risk. Unfortunately some of these 5th columnists were discovered and brutally slaughtered. And I recall CNN doing a 'special' on saddamned 'before the war' showing his firing squads in action against rebellious generals-down to close-ups of coup-de-grace pistol shots..... crime's not covered up.

And before you throw out the accusation Mr.Rocket, no I'm not a cnn apologist. I haven't even watched cnn for several years [ 5 or 6 ] and I barely watched it back when I did.

Mr. Hellfighter,

I was not pursuing a comment or fight about the war or CNN with you dear Sir.. I found this to be interesting to some degree. You were aware of this but maybe not all are. I surely know some who weren't. CNN protected the workers by covering up information. Good, i agree with that. But, just the fact that they had to take these measures to protect themselves is news in itself.

I was reading some of the final report on IRAQ by the weapons inspectors and it is quite interesting how intense Saddam was pursuing WMD's.
Just last week, one of Saddams associates explained that while they publically proclaimed to not have WMD's, they intentionally leaked information that they did have them as a show of force to Iran.
This helps explain why so many reports from different intelligence groups continually reported that Saddam had WMD's.

I guess they didn't report about that Cross of Iron either...lmao:)

They did, but you have to look at the BBC for that report not the CNN lol.

All my point is, what your original post had to do with War of Terror Mr.Rocket.... your follow-up post brings up another pertinent issue suddenly [ regarding the lied about WMD program accounts by defectors ] which was nowhere mentioned before.

You say "how intense Saddam was pursuing WMDs". Here's where you fall into the trap of neocons and Bushy admins claims. I say again. Those defectors were liars and/or in cahoots with neo-con schemers to play up the wmd fear. The CIA were stunned that the neocons made wild claims about CIA 'shakey' reports of the WMD 'possibility' at best. They hardly recommended Bush used the gathered intelligence as a point to go to war on the basis of imminent threat. This is all not a hidden secret. This is open general knowledge for the last several years. Just the fact you say 'many reports' is nothing new in the intelliegence world. You must show solid proof if one is using it to make a large scaled war. Can you show it? I think Bush, Cheney and Rice should've been more picky on the report of 'Bin Laden planning to fly planes into buildings' they received in their admin's opening months of office pre-9.11 -especially since all the neo-cons have been harping in recent years how Billy-boy Clinton wasn't doing enough against bum-laden.


Therefore, ->Where is you your proof of "intensely pursuing" - at that so-called advanced level in a supposed program like that you must be able to show evidence -especially as the basis for sending young men and women/family folk off to die in a war. You've mentioned me and my 'there we have it' reasons for heckling Bush and his war adventure supporters [which I was originally for] but my whole point is these idiotic personal crusades that are founded on schemes and false bravado cost innocents their lives, lifelong injuries, mental traumas -hundreds of thousands of them... not to mention relatives/friends comforting them or deprived of them. When you have events like WW2 everyone chips in knowing the stakes and whatever costs are needed to prevail over madmen, but these OTHER trumped-up war adventures should be left back in the times of Napoleon and colonialism.

I'm not trying to 'win' in these debates.... if someone has evidence proving otherwise to my own claims I'll be glad for the enlightenment. But my view revolves around info I pick up revealing the big 'dupe' shoved onto a mostly trusting audience by the Bush admin -and you're tempted to say it's an american issue I know, but this war is affecting us all -particularly in the war's early stages when al quaeda was making global attacks related to events in the war and against coalition allies.... not to mention terror plots revealed in Canada and UK and elsewhere by minion terrorists who were themselves aroused by war-fervour.

Here are reports about WMD 'threats'. I chose some older dated reports to show you that this revelation is nothing new - what's worse amongst all this is Bush's part in protecting those swine in his admin who leaked the identity of a CIA operative in reprisal for how her 'political' husband was taking pains to reveal how the WMD threat was being over-inflated [ie, the Iraqi Uranium enrichment connection to Niger ].

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6062401081.html
http://www.mywire.com/pubs/AFP/2004/07/09/...47?&pbl=222
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1121/dailyUpdate.html

HF

Mr. Hellfighter,

Do you claim that Saddam was not pursuing the use of WMD's?
Do you claim that he did not kill hundred's of thousands of his own people with WMD's?

Read the final report of the Iraq Survey Group yourself.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/...g-final-report/

Ok, so I posted this in "War on Terror" forum. I am so very sorry this upset you so greatly. As Steve Martin would say "EXCUUUUUUUUSE ME!".

Since the main battle with Al Queda is going on in Iraq right this very moment I thought I'd post it here. Glad to see the forum police are on the job.

lol.... those SNL skits were classics!
I wasn't upset at all- not for me to be picky/nor policing if you are touchy about my inquiring why its here under that title - - I was curious why you had the saddam-tyrant post in the war-on-terror forum.... my insinuation was you were making the iraq war solely about getting rid off a tyrant/anyway. Furthermore you NOW bring up Al quaeda??? Where was that in your last 2 posts? How does it relate to CNN covering up as you claimed?

so now what are ya gonna say- "al quaeda and cnn are in it together -yeahhh- yeahhhh- that's the ticket!!!"
Oh I'd disagree with your opinion about 'main battle with al quaeda' in Iraq. No doubt they have an influence there, but I feel they just put enough 'disruptive' agents in that area to keep the focus drawn there. Since it seems even bum laden knows he can't effectively control any terrorist strongholds there even-especially once iraqi army comes up to decent trained levels- I think their underlying focus is Afghanistan and E.Africa.... they're ominously quiet otherwise.

Yes I will definately claim WMD didn't kill hundreds of thousands of his own people. Seeing as the estimates of sodom's murders are three hundred thousand+ iraqis killed by his goons you can safely assume the majority of this butchery was by firing squads and mass executions. Check your stats for that and chemical weapons he used against Iranian soldiers in the 80s.
No I won't claim Sadam was pursuing wmds because I don't know what your definition of pursue is. Seems definate that he was looking into its feasibility but at what level I don't know and neither do you-because nobody else can say or prove he had any around NOR any plans for developing, let alone using them.

Once again you provided a link that defeats your own intent it seems. The report says he had 'pet projects' being considered -whatever that means... and wmds were considered as a counter to Iran- again the key is nothing more than speculative projects were in effect. Can you base these speculations as the fear mongering to start a huge war. The Bush admin knew they had nothing and they deliberately ballooned the issue to beat the drums for war.
Now then..... "isn't that special!".

While I enjoy our discussions, it becomes just plain silly when you begin denying actual events that take place in the word and in order to protect your self imposed position you need to deny any and all reports that tend to disagree with your position.



So you think the main battle with Al Quacka is in Africa and Afghanistan?!?! Funny how we seem to keep killing them Iraq. Maybe that's because that's where the "battle" is. Even Osama has repeatedly said how important victory in Iraq is. Funny how I seem to miss all the headlines about Americans being killed by Al Quacka in Africa. Show me the link that says the main battle is in Africa.


Youir denial of WMD's used on Iraqi's is absurd:
The Halabja (Northern Iraq) attack involved multiple chemical agents, including mustard gas, and the nerve agents sarin, tabun and VX. It began with 8 Russian built fighter/bombers.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1991/IRAQ913.htm#4

Mass murder graves in Iraq contain "400,000 so far" -Tony Blair
Nerve and Mustard Gas used on Kurds
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf

Saddam admits use of WMD's on Iran
http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Saddam...6290507910.html

An example of numerous reports that WMD were removed from Iraq to Syria. I don't know whether WMD's were moved into Syria or not. It is constitant with certain facts and has makes some logical sense. Especially if Russia was trying to hide their involvement. But this highlights our difference. I am willing to view all information and and put together some logical conclusions. http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articl.../2/230625.shtml

You really need to read the ISG report.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/...g-final-report/
It contains the following statements:
In the years following Iraq's war with Iran and invasion of Kuwait, Saddam's Regime sought to preserve the ability to reconstitute his WMD, while seeking sanctions relief through the appearance of cooperation with the UN Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the UN Monitoring Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC).

Many former Iraqi officials close to Saddam either heard him say or inferred that he intended to resume WMD programs when sanctions were lifted. Those around him at the time do not believe that hemade a decision to permanently abandon WMD programs.

Iraq attempted to balance competing desires to appear to cooperate with the UN and have sanctions lifted, and to preserve the ability to eventually reconstitute its weapons of mass destruction.

The release of long-concealed WMD documentation planted at Husayn Kamil's farm in August 1995, and Iraq's declarations in February 1996 revealing new aspects of the WMD programs were major turning points in the Regime's denial and deception efforts following the Desert Storm

The Regime made a token effort to comply with the disarmament process, but the Iraqis never intended to meet the spirit of the UNSC's resolutions.

ISG has not found evidence that Saddam Husayn possessed WMD stocks in 2003, but the available evidence from its investigation—including detainee interviews and document exploitation—leaves open the possibility that some weapons existed in Iraq although not of a militarily significant capability.

Has anyone read this book? If not, get it, its a great read. Written by Georges Sada, a Christian, who was the No.2 man in the Iraq Air Force. His account of what happened beforet the war is chilling. He tells how a large passenger plane was stripped and used to carry the WMD to Syria.

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

Still no slamdunk on your part -or close imo Mr.Rocket.

First you still don't get it about the number of Iraqis killed by nerve gas + mass graves..... 300-or 400,000 Iraqis were not killed by wmds. NO-no-nooooo!!! That figure is the estimated total number of Iraqis killed during sodom's entire reign. Most-the vast majority were butchered by firing squads. Show me where you have read half a million civilians dying by wmd? I have many friends from Iraq with relatives all over the nation-north/south/west - none mention this massive use of wmds- there would be millions more dying/suffering from collateral effects of wmds on that scale. You have your figures wrong on this point because you misconstrued your research somewhere.

This thread is about was wmd programs being pursued to the extent of going to war. Once again Bush has admitted 'no'- there are no wmds in Iraq; cia said before the war there was no definate proof of wmd/or programs going on in Iraq; the iraqi defectors have all been showed to be liars about exaggerated claims of wmd programs going on in Iraq! Thus I'm not sure why you retreat back to 1980s as your proof.

'As for Saddam admits use of wmd in Iran'
That event as you linked was not a hidden secret in that war - the Iranians were immediately and openly spreading word of its use against their human-wave attacks at the time. There was nothing to admit since it wasn't a secret. It was a known fact to the world.
For some reason you bring up links dating back to the 1980s Iraq/Iran War as proof- I told you in my post these chemical weapons were used in that war -tell me something I don't know?!! What does that war of 20 years ago have to do with the reasons for going into the latest war in Iraq?

Yes, my opinion is a battle going on in Iraq with Al kooks but my opnion is its not the main battle. I maintain its disposable agents keeping the attention there while the real subterfuge hardcore pee-ons are manouevrering globally and quietly-setting up. It's not a hidden fact that al kooks have rebuilt their formations globally. I'm not arguing al quaeda's not taking a licking in Iraq, but you can imagine they've gone there from Syria with a one-way ticket; so instead of slipping away to fight another day, they're staying there come what may -imo.

I read that linked 'global security' report- but what tangible evidence does it prove beyond sodom's desire to perhaps put a project in effect as opposed to wmds in a 'ready-stage' as the Bush admin claimed/lied.

If CIA got hold of real poof wmds in Iraq you can bet they'd pay a king's ransom to a network of anti-sadamists to bump him off- not just overthrow him-> which proved to be disastrously futile on several occasions unfortunately.





An interesting link mr.Ghostchild, but that link was a year ago- and a meeting with US officials was mentioned regarding those facts, but from that point until now nothing revealing has come out of these presented 'statements' that has proved a wmd program being undertaken.

Point granted. I mistated about the 100,000 of thousands of people killed by WMD's. I did not mean to word it that way. The actual number is unknown. Witnesses report 5,000 in a single day. It really doesn't matter how many thousands of people he killed WMD's. The ISG report goes to show how aggressively he pursued these instruments, his efforts to prevent the inspectors in discovering his efforts and his willingness to use them on anyone.
I firmly believe that Saddam, or his succesor, left unchecked would continue to develop these weapons and supply them to any terrorist that wished to use them on the USA and our allies.
Ghost Child notes, yet another, testimony that WMD's may have ben moved to Syria. But, of course, you dear sir fail to even acknowledge this and seem to not care at all that Syria (an enemy of the USA) may be sitting on a stockpile. This is why countries need to look out for themselves. America cannot and should not depend on our neighbors in this war on terror. I am accutely aware that Al Queada is not threatening the destruction of Canada and furhtermore, if the get a "dirty bomb", nuclear weapon, or any other form of WMD, it will not be targeted on Canada.

And for the record the record Mr Hellfighter, our president never stated the sole justification to remove Saddam from rule was because of WMD's.

I, however, am very proud of the Canadians that do see the evil in such a regime and are willing to support any efforts to end Tyranny and the slaughter of the innocent.

I for one always thought a nice sheet of glass covering that whole desert would look pretty good.

Actually I find it more a necessity that all nations pitch in to fight tyranny rather than pride -
That's what the initial move into Afghanistan was about -even the French govt. pitched in.....
Honestly though everyone sees evil in regime's like sadam's-its just a matter of where people throw their lot- of course with no weapons to fight, the oppressed civilians remain docile - the evil scum on the other hand willingly did sadam's bidding. We need to be aware that 'our' govts don't see tyranny regimes as needed to be put down for various reasons of 'convenience'. Noone went into Rwanda or wants to militarily move into N.Korea to end the starvation of its civilians... well needless to say there's a long list I could go through- > look at Saudi Arabia -our chum of ultimate convenience-did you hear about a recent case there in which a woman was raped-but since at the time she was in a car with a NON-relative male, she was ALSO sentenced to be whipped -that's surely tyranny.

Anyone that stands with the USA though is a target.... look at the Madrid bombing, London bombings- yes-even in Canada we dodged a potential nightmare terror scheme;
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...me=&no_ads=
It may be better not to assume we know the limits of madmen and their minions and where/how they'll strike. Anything goes with them... al quaeda is about massive terror strikes... That attempted shoe-bomber reid of several years ago could just have easily let off his bomb in the airport lobby [as was a terrorist tactic in the 1980s] -but by al quaeda's standards, that's not a show of 'power' for them.


So while bum laden seeks to bring down the USA for being the figurehead of freedom on the globe he's certainly determined to demolish any other non-americans who stand in his way.

But you dear sir, missed the bottom of my last post apparently- I acknowledged Ghostchild's post- like I said there- that kind of info if true or remotely substantiated would be a whirlwind scenario and definately vindicate Bush... but as you see, this 'revelation' was put outover a year ago AND it was supposed to have been the topic of a major meeting of minds - but as you see nothing came of it- again this was a hyped up 'story'.

Actually Bush admin found out the hard way he/America needs to depend on others.... running into a war without allies en masse in tow was a horrid misjudgement. Bush-senior got it right with his global alliance in the Gulf war-too bad the son didn't learn from dad on that one. Keep in mind global intelligence networks are playing a critical role in countering terror plots- so to assume its solely deploying troops in hot spots is an oversight.

As for doesn't matter how many 000's killed by wmds, I tend to disagree. The world response to several thousand iraqis killed by wmds was somewhat meek but loud [ and more than when iranian soldiers were slaughtered by wmds in the 80s]. If 300,000 were killed by wmds I bet sodom would've been taken out at that point - by sniper bullet or bunker buster bomb most likely-if not an uprising.

One reason I was initially for the war in Iraq was taking out Saddam's sons- Those two nut jobs in my mind wouldn't hesitate to deal with the devil.