This is what the U.S.goverment doesn't want you to see!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_K7na5CAhE

lol- hey mustang - good to see another 'sentinel' lingering about in the main area.

im amazed at the amount of personal videos and documentarys ive seen on a police state and 9/11 conspiracy. i work in the flight path of the fort lauderdale airport and see the planes coming in every 5 minutes.one thing that has stuck with me after watching a doc on 9/11 was the fact there were no visible markings on either planes that hit the trade centers.i am no profesional but no matter how high ,cloudy ,angle or speed i can see the markings AND WINDOWS on every plane at the height sometimes higher than a large building -including united airlines,which i find to be very easy to identify. when i watch the 9/11 clips ,i see no windows,no paint and that bugs me on a daily basis .



also the "lets roll plane" (flight 93?) was detained in cincinnati on a bomb threat at the precise time it crashed .it was suposedly directed into a hanger -this was reported by their local newspaper the same day .



and of course theres no doubt (ill say) a large plane couldve hit the pentagon.



wondering what thoughts are out there concerning these theories.

Unless I see proof that the clip showing Bum Laden talking with his goons in Afghanistan about the 'success' of 9/11 attacks being fake and part of a conspiracy, I don't give much credence to the idea that a vast conspiracy was in play to take down the US landmarks. It's proof enough the plane that ploughed into field short of its intended target was not a 'guided missile'. Then there are the captured al quaeda members substantiating their knowledge of the attacks. And if there was a conspiracy, why would documents -the ones largely ignored by Bush and cronies- about planes flying into buildings be revealed ahead of the attacks -wouldn't that potentially raise security [or should have] to levels to prevent those attacks from being carried out? People say "no attacks since 9/11"- but there are so many realistic opportunities for 'low level' plots to succeed. The attempted airline 'shoe-bomber' of a few years ago could just have easily let off his bomb on American soil in the airport terminal. Regarding explosions heard going off in the towers before they fell -how come the janitors and maintenance would not have noticed any powerful explosives placed in the building or strange heightened activity in the skeleton of the towers. I think all the other tragic government level foul-ups -fighter pilot alerts/post attack health warnings are the typical blundering of a poorly led government. Remember during the Pearl Harbour attacks, General MacArthur unbelievably sat around in a numbed state for hours before waking himself up to give reaction orders.

THEY DID,there are hundreds of claims by police ,firefighters ,maintenance and security, who claim there was a masive explosion prior to the crash and many explosions during collapse.just saying there are alot of questions in my book,i never noticed the planes before watching that.

I like hanging out at all forums as its just like hanging out at DQ when i was a teen which was a long time ago. One thing we need to know is that the Neo-Cons like to do it in your face and then say "What you going you do about it?"There is some who are fighting back.On this Documentary"Loose Change Final Cut" might answer some questions you might have.Whats so interesting is that George Bush"s brother was in charge of security in these complexes.They took out all of the bomb sniffing dog out of the towers weeks before the attack.This was to plant explosives to each floor.Watch it and decide for yourself.

www.video.google.com/videosearch?q=loose+change+final+cut&sitesearch=

Also check out:

www.infowars.com

Go to Sections and then click on September 11 for more articles.Thanks

Yea one more thing why didn't jet fighters scramble when these planes went out of their flight pattern?

LOl -nope undead you misread my point - I said janitors not noticing exploSIVES . As I mentioned earlier in the thread -yes people were hearing exploSIONS - I acknowledge that as a fact. My point is were they explosions OR what sounded like explostions.
I think one test regarding the planes would be to make a video of similar planes at the same fly-in height [lol-you're the expert on aircraft terminology sorry if I sound silly] and see if plane markings show up on a video as opposed to by eyesight..

I'm currently going thru the clip mustang while I work here at home -very intersting [ 1 hour so far ].... I think undead's opinions will be valuable on this too.
reporting back in a bit.....

ok dokey - I just got through it.
Very revealing in 3 parts for me;
1] The blast hole behind the Pentagon
2] No widely scattered large plane debris in the fields and forest.
3] That tower 7 [? -I forget] showing it still standing behind the journalist after it was reported fallen- and then the segment breaks off!!!!

Questions raised, but we need to know who and whys with more clarity- it's a worthy start though, in particular the building collapses going down so smoothly all over the place -not even near the hit wtc, and explosions going off in the elevators inexplicably.

Still, how does bum Laden fit in.... especially after that clip I mentioned with him acknowledging claim for the attack. Are his clips staged like some Apollo moon landing -capricorn 9- thing?

But I see how noone genrally wants to believe a discovered horrid truth. Last night I watched a documentary on the disappearances of thousands of civilians in Argentina in the 1970s 'the disappearances' was the term. The junta government was scooping up these people [made out to be 'agitators' / and supporters] on false pretenses and killing and torturing many of them without giving any account of them to worried family members who eventually and bravely openly protested the unknown horrors- Eventually the junta was ousted and investigations revealed what was really going on. However the demonstrators are mostly stunned that their are still Argentinians who refuse to believe that horror ever happened.

Terrorist trial in Australia laywer says 9/11 not bin laden.

www.infowars.com/?p=496

An entertaining example of the 9/11 conspiracy buffs wet dream
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07

Or another way to look at the revisionist history and implications attempted to be passed off as fact.
Loose change is now on it's 3rd version of their 9/11 conspiracy movie.
Why the 3rd version?
Because they have to come up with new biased conclusions/assumptions after their old ones are debunked.
90% of the myths surrounding the 9/11 conspiracies have been debunked point by point on the freaking history channel and popular mechanics.
So I guess than now means the history channel and Popular mechanics is now part of the conspiracy/coverup.

I've got no problem with anyone questioning the government, I consider it a civic virtue to have a healthy skepticism.
The problem is the 9/11 conspiracy buffs go way beyond simple healthy skepticism.
They typically take it to the point where it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation regarding what happened.
The sad part is, in my opinion it demeans everyone who died that day.

For anyone interested, here is a previous 18 page discussion about 9/11
http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...24&hl=osama

Did anybody see that article a couple of months ago where one of the agencies had their wiretaps shut off while monitoring terrorists.

It turned out that they hadn't paid the phone bill.

I think logic needs to prevail regarding Al quaeda and Bum Laden - he clearly hated the West post Gulf War days and post Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan. He clearly attacked women and children in his bombing attacks in Africa and in arab lands, and in Spain - he never denied those attacks. And with all those al jazeera run tapes of Al Quaeda with all the threats he makes its obvious he has no qualms in destroying any human life. Look at the suicide bombers from a few weeks ago -mentally handicapped women were used. My Iraqi friends will tell you al quadea has no problems killing anyone just to make their point, He never stopped Talibums under his control pre2002 from ravaging Afghan villages and slaughtering their occupants in the worse ways you can imagine -there was a reason Afghanistan had one of the worst refugee crisis's in the world at that time.

haha- Yes Shred I actually mentioned that wiretap shut-off thing a month ago in a thread that someone started about that - methinks that was Undead's thread too if I remember correctly.

Regarding 9/11 conspiracies - I couldn't go that far to say someone besides bum Laden committed the attack / he admitted it and hasn't steadfastly claimed not being responsible for it -besides which I wouldn't take a psycho at his word if his first claim of denying doing it is to be believed - Primarily I'd need to see a reason for such conspiracies have been validated. Obviously some questions need answering, and when the government isn't forthright in yielding information -delaying its release and even shielding / erasing crucial information, that is recklessly cruel to the victims' families who grievingly want to know 'why' their love ones suffered on and after 9/11.

Other than that, I found the instances mentioned in my prior post very peculiar.


Robert- can you turn on the edit/modify posts feature if its been turned off - I'm suffering here making sure I type things out properly 1st time around.

lol- I recall going thru that thread Druid - it seems like Silver must've been punching holes in his wall those days.
I don't go for demolitions in buildings mainly because of what I claimed earlier regarding janitors should notice things like the pic you posted in Post#138 of that old thread - but that BBC thing I mentioned earlier regarding wtc7 was mighty odd. mighty odd. Some coverup is going on for some reason but conspiracy claiming is perhaps bold until someone in the vast network of the x-files conspiracy speaks up.

im not a conspiracy junkie at all and i have no need to visit the thousands of conspiracy sites out there ,i have read our previous post as well .i simply have questions on certain things that happend that day and i believe credibal eye witness reports such as police and firemen.i actually hope im WRONG .



pentagon- no pieces of the plane were found.in the worst crashes they are able to recover the engines at least but they found nothing. i have a relative who worked in that exact wing of the pentagon and he changed jobs a while before 9/11.he was actually stuck in traffic close by and saw the smoke the day of.he claims there are quite a bit of questions as to what hit that building.the pics ive seen do not look like a plane hit it.



flight 93- i have always had questions about. on 9/11 when i saw the impact crater i said to myself if i were president i wouldve ordered it shot down.theres so many questions on this flight now ,i dont even know where to begin.

building 7- when i saw it fall ,no one had to tell me it looked like a demo job,infact all the buildings fell pretty much the same way.

excuse my spelling,my spell check has never worked on these forums.

I agree with you about all the unexplained peculiar oddities> crash site impact areas too especially.....
Did you see this part in Mustang's above clip; at 1 hour 46 minute mark -that really raies eyebrows regarding unnatural .......

I haven't looked at the clip you mentioned. Even without doing so I can partially address your question.

The Crash site didn't look right
A perfect example of the countless "questions" that people come up with to perpetuate the conspiracy myths

1) Why doesn't the crash look like other crash sites
2) The crash site doesn't look right
The unspoken implication is that this this question somehow equates to fact that there is something wrong.
Want to know why the crash site doesn't look like other ones they compare it to?
It's pretty simple when you think about it form an open an unbiased perspective.
The truth, the crash site should look different form other comparable sites.
None of the crash sites they compare it to involve a plane which was purposefully crashed.
The reality is, it would be suspect if the crash site looked like other ones because the CAUSE of the crash would effect what the crash site looked like.
One is where a person purposefully crashed the plane ( or so we suspect )
All the other crash sites shown are from examples of either pilot or mechanical failure where the pilot was undoubted was doing everything possible to save the plane prior to the crash.
It's would be like comparing two car crashes.
One from a suicide, where the person drove straight into a bridge column at 80 mph
Then trying to compare it to someone who fell asleep at the wheel , waking up at the last second, slamming their brakes an swerving in a failed attempt to miss the bridge column.
From that perspective, the crash sites should look different, don't you think?

Another one which always drove me nuts was the complaint about how the hole looked in the pentagon.
Depending on the picture, there were complaints about how the hole was to small.
It was a small, almost perfectly round hole.
What people didn't realize is on the picture must often brought up is not a picture of the outside "E " ring wall. It's actually a picture of the 2nd inside "C" Ring wall.
Which explains why the hole was so small, certainly not any kind of proof of anything wrong
People also need to keep in mind, this was not a simple office building we are talking about.
It's a military complex, specifically built to withstand possible bombing attacks.
It was built closer to a hardened military bunker than office complex people try and compare it to.

Mustang asked the question about why jets didn't scramble when the planes went off course.
1) Prior to 9/11 neither Norad or the N.A. Air command tracked domestic flights. Their sole focus was the 1000's of daily incoming intercontinental flights. Because of this, Norad and the N.A. Air command were unaware of what was happening until they were notified by the FAA.
When they WERE 1st notified, no one new what was going on, it was reported as a "Possible"
hijacking.
2) Prior to 9-11 only the President or the Canadian Prime minister could authorize a downing of a commercial flight
3) Prior to 9/11 the protocol for handling a hijacked commercial flight involved 3 things.
* 2 jets would be scrambled
* trail the hijacked plane at a distance of five miles to remain out of sight, while awaiting further orders
* Then after receiving orders, either establish visual contact and/or maneuver to force the plan to land.
You would probably be surprised to learn at the time this happened, fighters jets flying above the U.S. where not allowed to go supersonic without prior authorization. The two jets which initially responded couldn't even go supersonic to close in as quickly as possible.
Even if they did it wouldn't have mattered because their standard "ready to scramble" alert status since 1998 was for bombing missions. The closest jets ordered to NY were unarmed, making practice bombing runs.

A few sites full of information contradictory to 9/11 myths
http://www.debunk911myths.org/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...842.html?page=1
http://www.debunking911.com/


The reason I feel so strongly on this is because I think the whole conspiracy/myth argument misses the most important point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXnA9FjvLSU

Powerfull video,

The 9/11 truthers, Infowars crowd, the Michael Moore, Alex Jones people all seem to take 1 small possibility and flip it into a web of conspiracy.
Are there some grains of truth maybe?

I think it's far more likely that the groups like the trilatral commision, the bilderberg group and other groups of powerfull people are getting together to shift tax policy, trade and tarrif policy, and in general influence (buy) votes in order to make themselves more money.
While this is despicable to all, when the conspiracy theorists take these issues and turn them into a secret society of devil worshiping, numerologists that want to create a police state of sheep to do their evil bidding. The rest of the world just looks at the info and thinks well this is all bullshit.

The powerfull people make money because we are FREE to consume products and sevices, it seems to me that the people in power would be far more likely to use their power to crush rivals in buisness so that people will not be able to purchase another product other than their own.

I assume that is why people believe that the government had something to do with 9/11 and that it was not terrorists was because the people in power in the secret society wanted the dominoes to fall the way they have. They wanted the war in afganistan, Iraq so they could make money or that these steps would help in their end game of contolling the world?
Sorry it sounds like bullshit to me.

Do you want the quickest way to solve the problem, vote every incumbent out. Start electing people that represent you at the state, city and county level.

Abolish the 2 party system because most of the sheeple hold thier nose and punch D or R because that party fits most likely with their group politic. If the best candidate is an indepentent that is closest to your ideals it's a shame they can't get afar shake going up against the D & R politica machines. Even if you do elect a candidate from one of the parties that has principles good for your community they will have to tow the party line on votes and issues or they will never be allowed to be on committies, have their legislation come up for a vote, etc... I mean how many "party line votes" do you see.
(Bush Sr was pushed down Regans throat because the Republicans wanted their political man in the whitehouse and Regan had to accept or he would have been blackballed by the party, funny how they all claim to love him now)

Abolish the 17th ammendment. The senators have now become a national poitical machine serving the federal government with more power than they were intended to have. We have more turnover at the state level and they were supposed to be appointing people for the senate, not people elected by the party (I know the people elect them but the parties fill out your options on who to vote for!) The chance of anyone thinking about what their needs as a state were VS the party is slim. (unless you are talking about pork so they can buy votes) Can anyone tell me why people move to a state to become a senator? (see Hillary, Rockefeller, etc) because they just saw that state needed a senator and they decided they could learn all there is to know about the state and help them out.

Create either a Flat tax or a Consumption tax and we could end all of the thousands of lobbyists buying votes for corporations and industries.

Those 3 things would totally derail the new world order crowd (if they exist) completly and shift the balance of power back towards the people. Rather than trying to expose the BIG EVIL, they should put their effort into somethig a little more rational that would have the same impact don't ya think?

And the crowd goes wild as Blitz hits one out of the park.

I dont get it.....
Your link leads to the Texico District Youth Camp 2007 Friday Night Presentation in Texas for aiding the homeless.Whats so conspiratorial about that? Perhaps the link has been changed.

The topic turned to 9-11 after Mustang's 2nd post here
http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...st&p=171676
Which linked to the "New an Improved" version of the 9-11 conspicracy movie called loose change.

I get a few right once in a while.

Keystone 2-8 this thread was long ago hijacked or from the looks of Undeads post I think the video from the starting thread may have changed?

Some nice posts I see since my last entry.... good points too.

The conspiracy thing hasn't made sense to me - its too x-files - can conspirator in such a large /mammoth conspiracy keep quiet about it all this time?

I agree about the plane crash in the fields - when you see the clip of it falling straight to earth then the resulting impact would create a concentrated crash zone area.

And one of the clips posted by Rob, the reasons for 'explosion sounds' can be attributed to other than bombs going off - what convinces me they weren't demo charges [apart from no-one seeing any preps for it going on, is that no-one saw any explosions ->you can imagine the massive number of charges needed to be placed in both WTC to bring them down - you would hear at least scores of explosions to bring down the towers of that height in a straight controlled demolition.
In the clip later showing bum Laden's admission speech in Afghanistan with his goons, he expressed shock [delighted like a monkey] that the towers came down entirely -his apparent goal was the mere crashing into the towers. otherwise you'd think at the speed the planes were flying at [seen in a part of Mustang's clip with firfighter looking up as jet races overhead] they would've aimed for the lower floors of the towers to attempt bringing down the buildings.

O.k. guys.... Lets snuff out all of this 9/11 conspiracy bull, take a look at this Penn & Teller video clip on the subject. Worth the time.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I

Blitz is the shit.



Don't let his head get to big!!

Well it was funny to watch. Rather than prove anything though, it shows how some of the theorists are true whack jobs....
For instance, the goon saying 9-11 was a prelude in the eventual plan to invade Iraq...The Iraq war had its opportunities to not occur at all - ie, Sadam stepping down as per bold deadline given by the neo-cons. Full access to Inspectors from the start of their entry into Iraq rather than the drawn-out step-by-step process. The Afghanistan campaign was about 9/11. It's pathetic that left wingers and right wingers alike keep up with the bozo statements that the Iraq war was about getting back at sadam for some role he had in the plot -in their minds.

I forgot completly about that show...
This one was one of my favorites

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfPAjUvvnIc

lol that was funny too......... it shows the power of nearly anything/idea can be sold with the right 'marketing'.

I still prefer bottled water though - to me it depends on where you're living ultimately and what your tap water source is. I've heard New York is blessed with excellent tap water [as shown in the clip].... Some places though tap water drinking is a risky business. Most cities you have to let your tap water run for a bit to see clear water running as opposed to various milky shades / rust shades??!! - lol- sorry Penn but I'll stick with well known brand names of bottled water if I'm not living in New York city or somewhere else with a clean water source/ clean pipes, etc.,