No worry Blinky, I had great fun yesterday.. enjoy playing with you. If I wasn't MOB, than I would join the Blinky Comunity. with all your buddies

This may go a little bit off topic but just had to link this. If you wanna be a tank commander, here´s your chance to try it on your backyard...

Men are always boys, their toys just get bigger....lol

http://www.mark-1-tank.co.uk/

that's it I'm buyin a friggin tank

I call shotty hate

oh sure - lump in tank destroyers, assault guns, and armoured cars under tanks definition but leave out the Brit. tanks,,,! I'm waiting for your piece on the British 79th Armoured Division's collection of 'funnies'.

This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/20/06 5:29pm

I'll do that tomorrow

THE Brits
The 79th Armoured Division was a specialist British Army armoured unit formed as part of the preparations for the Normandy invasion of 6 June 1944. The unit comprised armoured vehicles modified for specialist roles, intended to assist with the landing phase of the operation.

The unit was commanded by Major General (later Sir) Percy Hobart, and the strange-looking tanks it operated were known as Hobart's Funnies. They included tanks that floated, could clear mines, carry and lay bridges, and roadways - anything that would enable the invasion force to get ashore and break through the German defences. The unit did not operate as a single division, its vehicles were distributed as small units across the Divisions taking part in the landings and subsequent operations.

The Division was further used during the Rhine crossings, (Operation Plunder), to transport the assault troops and to re-supply.

If u ask me The brits arent important in the 2nd world war

I highly disagree on this, just by looking upon Malta, North Africa, Battle of Britain, European Naval, SE Operations, D-Day landings, Road to Rome... Italy...must I go on?

Not battle wise they rock in that direction but iam speaking of in like whats the word um popularity there we go
they wernt truely recognized is what i meant my bad lol

M-22 Locust light Airborne tank
World War II strategists in the U.S. became aware of the effectiveness of airborne assault forces by studying German victories achieved in Europe. They were also aware of the vulnerability of lightly armed airborne infantry alone and behind enemy lines without direct support from a main force. Because of increasing interest in an air delivered light tank by experienced field commanders and the British, the Ordinance Department formulated a design concept requiring the development of a light tank that would aid airborne units during critical mission phases and be sufficiently light in weight to be delivered by airborne means. The light tank would support the airborne infantry until reinforcements from the main force arrived. In May of 1941 design began on the M22 Locust light tank at the Marmon-Herrington Company. Production began in April 1943 and ended in February 1944 with a total production of 830 tanks. Under lend-lease, 260 Locusts were given to the British.

Development of the M22 continued by the Ordinance Department, but engineering problems dealing with excessive weight and poor performance were encountered. Testing showed the impracticalities of utilizing American aircraft at that time. Hoisting the tank hull under a C54 cargo plane and placing the turret in the plane proved cumbersome and time consuming. Because of the lack of a good air delivery system and disappointing performance of the vehicle, the Ordinance Department became less enthusiastic for any further development. However, the British were still interested in the vehicle and 260 were delivered with the remaining vehicles utilized for training purposes in the US. The British were more active than the US in airborne tank development having airborne tanks of their own such as the Tetrarch, Alexto and Hopkins. The British outfitted the 37mm guns with an extruder adapter (squeeze-bore) that reduced the projectile from 37mm to 30mm increasing velocity to 4000 ft/sec from 2700 ft/sec. A new high mass and shatter resistant tungsten carbide ammunition was developed for this application. Twelve of the tanks were landed using the giant Hamilcar glider during the Rhine crossing on March 24, 1945. The British airborne crossing of the Rhine river, called Operation Varsity, utilized over 50 large Hamilcar Gliders delivering airborne tanks and other equipment for the 6th Airborne Armored Reconnaissance Regiment, Royal Armored Corps, of the British forces. One Locust tank was credited with killing over 100 enemy soldiers.


M24 Chaffee[u]
The M24 Chaffee -- arguably the best light tank of World War II -- was a fast light armoured vehicle with the ability to deliver relatively large caliber direct fire with the excellent 75 mm M6 gun. More than 4.000 produced by Cadillac and Massey-Harris during 1943-45. The first reached Europe in late 1944, where they proved very effective and highly reliable.

However, at the outset of the Korean War American forces equiped with the with M24 Chaffees performed poorly against the enemy's T-34/85s, and these US units were soon augmented with M26 Pershings and M46 Pattons, along with M4A3E8 Shermans with the long 76mm gun. It remained in American service until 1953, by which time it wa totally replaced by the the M41 Bulldog.

After 1945 the M24 Chaffee was used by many American allies. The French army used them in Indo-China, including at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. Though obsolete by the mid-1960's, it remains in service in some countries. In Taiwan the platform has been re-equipped with a 90mm gun.

Just for You Hellfighter!

Three Black American rank battalions were activated during World War II. They were the 758th, 761st and 784th. The 761st was the first of these to go into combat. The battalion was activated in April 1942 at Camp Clairborne, Louisiana. General J. McNair gave birth to the idea of utilizing Black soldiers in the Armored Force. Many were opposed to the idea. One such individual who was opposed was one of Americas’ most famous generals,- George S. Patton, Jr., tank commander of the Third Army. Orders were issued to organize the first Black tank battalion in our nation’s history - the “758th. A cadre from the 758the was then used to organize the 761st. Many thought it was enough to have Black men in the armored division. However, it became a battle to get into battle. During World War II, the army was segregated, but due to the tenacious efforts of Eleanor Roosevelt as well as prominent Black leaders and the Black press, the 761st was given the opportunity to go into combat. After nearly a year of intensive training at the Central Army Installation of Camp Hood, the 761st departed and following a brief stay at Camp Shanks, New York, were enroute to the European Theater of Operations. Ironically, General Patton had requested that the best remaining separate Tank Battalion be sent to him in Europe. He would then later tell the men that he had asked for them because he had heard that they were good, and that he had only the best in his third army.

In October 1944, the 761st landed in France on the Normandy peninsula. True to their battle cry the courageous World War II Black Panthers came out fighting.

Hope ya like

Thanks lots, Sparta
I actually have a very significant mini library of books about black units in military history [and most especially in all arms of the U.S military starting in the American War of Independance] which over time I'll post about in the forum if there are interests raised. Currently I delve into female fighting units / individuals in the military throughout history... which I'll definately share at some point. In sticking to this thread for now I'll mention a bit about segregated [at those times officers were White at/above the rank of Captain]-Black armoured units besides the Tank units you mentioned - briefly, because as you might know me by now I ramble on a bit about things I get into when I post.....

Here's an excerpt from a Patton website on his review and thoughts of the 761st prior to them going into combat;

QUOTE

As the 761st was about to enter combat, Patton reviewed the battalion and made a speech to the men which offered a guarded vote of confidence in their abilities:

"Men, you're the first Negro tankers to ever fight in the American Army. I would never have asked for you if you weren't good. I have nothing but the best in my Army. I don't care what color you are as long as you go up there and kill those Kraut sons of bitches. Everyone has their eyes on you and is expecting great things from you. Most of all your race is looking forward to you. Don't let them down and damn you, don't let me down!"

However, like many Army officers, General Patton expressed his doubts about using black men in combat. On returning to headquarters following the review, he remarked, "They gave a good first impression, but I have no faith in the inherent fighting ability of the race."

Despite the outstanding performance of the 761st under his command, Patton was not compelled to change his perceptions about black soldiers. In War As I Knew It, he relates the interaction described above, and comments, "Individually they were good soldiers, but I expressed my belief at the time, and have never found the necessity of changing it, that a colored soldier cannot think fast enough to fight in armor."

Even though he had such prejudices initially he found their combat prowess necessary in spearheading his armoured thrusts and the unit remained in combat for 183 straight hellish days!

The units

Cavalry brigades [mechanised units] sent to N.Africa.... 4th and 5th Coloured Cavalry brigades.
Cavalry Regiments [mechanised units] sent to N. Africa... 9th,10th [remember the famous 'Buffalo Soldiers' of the wild west......] 27th, 28th Cavalry Regiments
Reconnaissance squadrons [armoured car units] sent to N.Africa.... 5th, 35th

'Coloured' Tank Destroyer Battalions [s-p = self propelled afvs]
not sent overseas.... 646th [s-p], 649th, 659th [towed AT guns], 669th [towed AT guns], 795th[s-p], 827th [s-p] 828th [s-p], 829th [towed AT guns], 846th [towed AT guns]
serving in NW Europe.... 614th [towed AT guns],
serving in Europe then Italy.... 679th [towed AT guns]

'Coloured' Tank Battalions
758th served in Europe alonside the 92nd Coloured Infantry Division
761st and 784th served in NW Europe, with their companies usually deployed to various infantry divisions.
The 761st was particularly devastating as a fighting force with terrific firing and combat skills.Apparently they had potent women-charming skills too and were very 'popular' in their stay in England prior to going into combat on the mainland. Most notable in their combat records were their roles in the battle of the Bulge and spearheading the initial thrusts into the Siegfried Line [yes, I spelled it wrong in my sig] assisting in liberating Buchenwald concentration camp, then ending up the furthest western unit into Eastern Europe, oddly enough the German citizens in the area they would later occupy, got along with the tankers very nicely compared to their treatment back at their camp quarters in the U.S. One major reason for their success was the men of all races and ranks coming together for the most part working together as an high-moraled elite and deadly tank unit. On the other hand, the 92nd coloured Div. in Italy performed patchily in Italy, poor leadership, blatant prejudices, and mistrust being the prime culprits.
-> a good source http://www.761st.com/index.php?page=DiNicolo

It should be noted Sparta, that Mrs.Roosevelt was incredibly instrumental in her agressive efforts to see everyone get 'their shot' at equality and everyone participating in the war effort to their full potential regardless of race and sex. She was a true 'damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead' type of person. Anyway I'm starting to ramble so I'll leave the tons of very interesting related material for future posts..... like entire African Divisions fighting against the Japanese, the American-Japanese Nisei Regt [the most decorated unit in the US forces!], all-women military units in the Soviet army/airforce etc.............................................................






This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/20/06 11:36pm

For Hellfighter Bout Woman soldiers
As in World War One, women played a vital part in this country’s success in World War Two. But, as with World War One, women at the end of World War Two, found that the advances they had made were greatly reduced when the soldiers returned from fighting abroad.

At the end of World War Two, those women who had found alternate employment from the normal for women, lost their jobs. The returning soldiers had to be found jobs and many wanted society to return to normal. Therefore by 1939, many young girls found employment in domestic service - 2 million of them, just as had happened in 1914. Wages were still only 25p a week.

When women found employment in the Civil Service, in teaching and in medicine they had to leave when they got married.

However, between the wars, they had got full voting equality with men when in 1928 a law was passed which stated that any person over the age of 21 could vote - male and female.

The war once again gave women the opportunity to show what they could do.

Evacuation:

Young mothers with young children were evacuated from the cities considered to be in danger. In all, 3.5 million children were evacuated though many went with a teacher. As young children were normally taught by females, many of those who went with the children were women. The fact that women were seen to be the people who taught the youngest was something that had been going on for years.

The Women's Land Army:

As in World War One, women were called on to help on the land and the Women’s Land Army (WLA) was re-formed in July 1939. Their work was vital as so many men were being called up into the military.

In August 1940, only 7,000 women had joined but with the crisis caused by Hitler’s U-boats, a huge drive went on from this date on to get more women working on the land. Even Churchill feared that the chaos caused by the U-boats to our supplies from America would starve out Britain.

The government tried to make out that the work of the WLA was glamorous and adverts showed it as this. In fact, the work was hard and young women usually worked in isolated communities. Many lived in years old farm workers cottages without running water, electricity or gas. Winter, in particular, could be hard especially as the women had to break up the soil by hand ready for sowing. However, many of the women ate well as there was a plentiful supply of wild animals in the countryside - rabbit, hares, pheasant and partridges. They were paid 32 shillings a week - about £1.60.

Iam Sry I got a bit Off topic But I've returned wit THE SS!!
For the 1939 invasion of Poland, three SS regiments ("Deutschland", "Der Führer", and "Germania") were grouped into a division, the SS-Verfügungstruppe ("Special-Purpose Troops"). After Poland, one regiment ("Germania") was sent to form another division (5.SS-Division Wiking), and a new third regiment was created (SS Regiment 11); this became the 2nd SS Division Reich ("Empire").

In November 1942, the division became a Panzergrenadier division and its name was changed to 2.SS-Panzergrenadier-Division Das Reich. In 1943 the division was reorganized as a Panzer division by adding the 2.SS Panzer Regiment, thus creating the 2.SS-Panzer-Division "Das Reich".

After fighting on the Eastern Front for a long time, the division was recalled from battle for refitting. Most of Das Reich was stationed in the southern French town of Montauban north of Toulouse gaining new equiptment and freshly trained SS men. The joint allied invasion of Normandy, meant that the division was in action again, and was pulled up to support the defence of France alongside the 3rd SS Division Totenkopf and 1st SS Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler fighting north of Caen.

Das Reich was trapped in the Falaise Pocket for some time, before escaping to the west. After the substantial losses in the Allied summer campaign, the Wermacht was pushed back almost to the borders of Germany in late 1944. In the second week of December, 1944, the German army was ready to make it's counter-offensive to reclaim the port of Antwerp, and regain the initiative in the west. The German Ardennes offensive opened a large break in the American lines. Das Reich played a role in the Battle of the Bulge.



Major gains were made, but by December 25, the German offensive was halted. The sieged town of Bastogne was never captured, eventhough numerous attempts were made to enter the city. Das Reich's panzer commander Ernst Barkmann became famous for the creation of Barkmann's Corner, where he destroyed numerous American tanks in small skirmishes.

After the Ardennes debacle, SS division Das Reich was again pulled back, this time to Germany, for refitting. The crisis in the south-east saw Das Reich in the thick of it. The failed German counter-offensive around Budapest saw Das Reich pushed back into Germany, after fighting in Vienna and Prague.

The remnants of the division in the south surrendered to the Americans in May 1945.

The division is infamous for the massacre of 642 French civilians in the village of Oradour-sur-Glane, on 10 June 1944, in Limousin region. A trial was held in the post war years, but very few of the accused perpetrators were punished. Apart from this, Das Reich was of the front-line SS divisions that had an illustrious, mostly crime free career. Only the Regiment "Der Führer" was held responsible for the massacre.

The SS Division Das Reich was one of the thirty-eight divisions fielded by the Waffen-SS during World War II. It is one of the most well-known and reasearched of all the SS divisons. Das Reich was composed of some of the best, most well trained and battle-hardened troops in the world at the time.

Good again Sparta.... but I'll definately peak your interest in future threads with facts about Soviet female fighter pilots/bomber crews;snipers/infantry[Stalingrad]/front line medics in WW2- real Amazon women {West Africa] who battled the Foreign Legion, AA crews in England in WW2, Allied female test pilots, females impersonating men to fight at major battles throughout history [American Civil War... Waterloo], female rebels in central American armies [80s], then there's the duel Achilles had with a Xena type Warrior at Troy [ok that was myth-based]..... ahhh I'm rambling - must stay on topic

ok late edit... first link relates to thread, the second link is a good source of books that I highly recommend for an eye-opening read... I have few of the books myself.

http://aufrecht.org/duri/ch22.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania...5Fencoding=UTF8


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 03/21/06 6:20pm